OLD news : Not another Massacre? (school) in the us.

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Raptor
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03 Feb 2014, 12:50 pm

Solitudinarian wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Mike1 wrote:

I think there should be some type of test to confirm that someone isn't a simpleton, a fanatic, a bigot, and/or a degenerate before they're allowed to have a gun permit.

It doesn’t and shouldn’t require a permit to own a gun in most of the states
It’s not illegal to be a simpleton, a fanatic, a bigot, or a degenerate.
Even if this was the law, many simpletons, and just about all fanatics, bigots and degenerates would put on a good show while being tested / evaluated. Once the permit is in hand, it’s back to being a simpleton, fanatic, bigot, or degenerate.

That's why prospective gun permit owners should not only have to prove their lack of documented anger issues and mental problems, their current sanity (such as their lack of political conspiracy theories) and their average or above-average intelligence, but also their actual need for a firearm. If a person lives somewhere in the sticks, somewhere with a long police response time and the occasional grizzly on the front porch, chances are that this person not only appears sane on the surface but also wants to own a gun for all the right reasons. The same cannot be said for a trailer park resident who seeks to kill some time by shooting empty beer cans or crows (killing animals should illegal without a hunting license anyway).

Maybe they could use the Vulcan mind probe to see who's mentally fit and politically reliable enough to own a firearm? Really, that's just about what you're suggesting

I don't know where you live but it's still a right to own a firearm in the United States, not a privilege requiring justification. And before we go there, I'm not particularly interested in this country being reduced to what you'll probably refer to as the rest of the civilized world.

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thomas81
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03 Feb 2014, 1:01 pm

Shau wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

2. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Especially when they're from certain countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

i would argue that Jamaica is the exception rather than the rule for cultural reasons, and El Salvador had a civil war which left stockpiles of guns everywhere.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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03 Feb 2014, 1:10 pm

We had a massacre last night in New Jersey...

Raptor
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03 Feb 2014, 1:49 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I hadn’t planned on getting into this thread, hoping it would die out very early, but that seems not to be the case.

Is obesity due to the ease of finding a fork?

2. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Yes, that's correct. Guns do not act, they are acted upon.

Quote:

Maybe, but people with guns kill many, many more people than they would if they didn't have guns, and guns designed to kill as many people as possible.

Guns are designed to accurately put holes in things at varying distances.

Quote:

We don't know if the murderer in Newtown was suffering from a suicidal depression, but many mass shooters in the past were. And guess what? People suffer from suicidal depression everywhere in the world. People get angry and upset everywhere in the world.

Which is why it's important to:
1. Identify them before they go on a rampage
2. Be able to stop them in their tracks if and when item 1 fails

Quote:

But there aren't mass shootings every few weeks in England or Costa Rica or Japan, and the reason is that people in those places who have these impulses don't have an easy way to access lethal weapons and unlimited ammunition. But if you want to kill large numbers of people and you happen to be an American, you'll find it easy to do.

Define easy access?

Johnny lives in Hicksville Tennessee and is on his way to his friendly downtown dealer of firearms where he plans to purchase a handgun. What steps will have to be taken in order to transfer a handgun to him?

True or false: Having successfully completed the transaction, it would be legal for Johnny to murder people with his newly acquired handgun.
____ TRUE
____ FALSE

If Johnny went on a massacre at the Hicksville Mall, what would be the quickest way to stop him? Select the one best answer from the choices below.
a) call 911
b) vow to vote only for ant-gun politicians in the future
c) accuse Raptor of condescension
d) beg Johnny for mercy
e) shoot Johnny down

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Raptor
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03 Feb 2014, 1:50 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

We had a massacre last night in New Jersey...

Yep, Denver got their asses kicked.

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sliqua-jcooter
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03 Feb 2014, 2:38 pm

Raptor wrote:

Yep, Denver got their asses kicked.

Yet another Denverite mass-slaughter. So sad.

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Dox47
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03 Feb 2014, 2:46 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

We had a massacre last night in New Jersey...

Hopefully we'll do it again, and again, and again next year too! :lol:

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Erlyrisa
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04 Feb 2014, 3:04 am

Sorry for agravatin you guys (You know, bringin up an obvious, and overly talked about topic --> in the US at least)

I just connected 2 and 2 together and thought, maybe now that 3d printing is slowly becoming popular, and will probably be available as a service in your local Malls...

that yeah --> making "Fun Guns" for kids maybe a change - if the mainstream guns didn't exist.

For example - I doubt the typical avid designer's first thing to think about is a gun --> but I don't see the reason to completely "Ban"
the printing of them...

...ie, In highschool we made our own bombs, and we all made pee shooters ... I think it would be an ok thing for "adult" children to be playing with...

...and if the concept of PLAY-ing is instilled with "safer" projectile weapons , ie Bow Arrow, Sling Shot , etc ...then the knife culture would be mute aswell... (ie, why play with knives when you can play and refine "cool" things)

For example - an unpopular kid, instead of Killing everyone in school, could "modify" one of the "opensource" hand weapons and "kill" everyone in anger that way... you know its cheaper than "the latest clothing, or hair style", and the worst that could happen is someone loses an eye.

Problem: is that, yeah, the real guns still exist.

PS: I would say that at least they (kids) would be out of the house and being productive, rather than playing computer games all day, it would be an intersting trend to start in the US, or in some of the 3rd world countries where it is worse.

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Raptor
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04 Feb 2014, 12:26 pm

/\

wut?

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thomas81
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04 Feb 2014, 1:00 pm

Erlyrisa wrote:

Even if you could print a gun, you would still need bullets to put in it.

In countries where guns are illegal the illegality of bullets is generally implied.

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sliqua-jcooter
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04 Feb 2014, 2:35 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Even if you could print a gun, you would still need bullets to put in it.

In countries where guns are illegal the illegality of bullets is generally implied.

Making bullets is substantially easier than making a gun, so the point is moot.

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Ganondox
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04 Feb 2014, 10:00 pm

Raptor wrote:

Solitudinarian wrote:

I'm glad that I live in a place where it's not considered normal and cool to own a gun, and where I couldn't get my hands on one even if I wanted to. There were dozens of times where I would have blown my own brains out without thinking twice about it, and at least two or three times where I would have been more than a little tempted to take a few bullies with me.

If you’d been intent on killing yourself, you would have found another equally simple way.

Actually suicidal tendencies don't generally work that way, ones current emotional mood can set them off and having it be easier for them to commit suicide at the moment may make them kill themselves when otherwise they wouldn't. Guns are one of the easiest ways for someone to kill themselves.

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sliqua-jcooter
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04 Feb 2014, 10:29 pm

Ganondox wrote:

Sure, but I would submit that that's a really piss poor reason to ban guns.

I would submit people with suicidal tendencies probably shouldn't own guns, but there's no one that can make that decision but the person themselves. No one is suggesting that guns should be in the hands of everyone. The way you help people who are suicidal is to make help available to them, and fight the stigma of mental illness in general, and depression in particular - focusing on the methods people employ to kill themselves doesn't do anything to solve the root of the problem.

Quote:

I happen to know firsthand that it's not quite as simple as people think. (Which doesn't mean that I'm suicidal or anything. I haven't been in many years). The methods that are reasonably quick and have a comparatively high chance of success can also go terribly wrong and leave the suicidal individual in a much worse situation than before. E.g., with permanent brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. Or quadriplegic because the building wasn't high enough after all.

I think that it's easy to think that killing yourself with a gun is comparatively easy when it's not a real option. When it's an actual possibility, I'd imagine it's just as intimidating looking down on a pistol as it would be standing on the edge of a bridge or standing in front of a train. I can think of numerous ways people have survived gun shots to the head very much similar to the concerns you've laid out about other methods.

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04 Feb 2014, 10:50 pm

I have had several family members commit suicide,a close friend and some casual acquaintances.
My oldest friend from second grade had MS and used Tylenol,very bad way to go.
A cousin jumped in front of a train.
A nephew hung himself.
One man drove his truck off backwards into the river.
A couple other families that lost teenagers to hanging.
One niece and an uncle that used a firearm.
And no,my last name is not Hemmingway.
If you want to really kill yourself,you can find numerous ways to do it without using a gun.

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Mike1
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05 Feb 2014, 11:59 am

Suicide is thought of by most people as being unnecessary in pretty much all cases, just because it's preventable. It doesn't matter if it's preventable, if the person is in too much despair to prevent it and no one else does anything to prevent it. It's as if people expect that suicidal people are somehow able to become one with society's consciousness, and make it help them. It doesn't work that way, people only have the help that's given to them and the help that they can find. If no help is given to them and they can't find help, then it shouldn't be unexpected of them to try to commit suicide. It doesn't make it unnecessary, just because they would have ideally been able to get help. The reality is that they're often not able to, and it's often not their fault. Most people don't see it this way, because humans are by nature much better sociologists than psychologists. People naturally have the tendency to think in terms of hypothetical categories of people rather than in terms of hypothetical individuals.

sliqua-jcooter
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05 Feb 2014, 2:04 pm

Ok, but how does that relate to the topic at hand?

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