Why do people need substances to get closer to God?

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salamandaqwerty
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04 Feb 2014, 8:28 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Nambo wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:

My question is therefore: Are religious people *really* that religious if they have to eat mushrooms or take in substances in order to get closer to God?


No, they are taking a substitute that brings about similar effects to the feeling of the Holy Spirit, if you are that close to God, he gives you Holy Spirit and you therefore do not need to take drugs to achieve a substitute when you have the real thing.


Or of course the high brought on by a belief in god is quite simply a natural act of neurology which drugs (Psilocybin in particular) can mimic or activate. It has also been shown that Atrophy of the hippocampus can lead to religious transformations. A reasonable amount of study has gone into the neurology of religion and it is not looking good for the supernatural. As we gradually understand the workings of the brain Religious experiences are set to become very mundane.


Why would having a deeper understanding of the brains neurological processing of religious/spiritual functioning lessen an individuals religious/spiritual experience? Why could it not make it even more significant?


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Fnord
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04 Feb 2014, 8:42 am

salamandaqwerty wrote:
Why would having a deeper understanding of the brains neurological processing of religious/spiritual functioning lessen an individuals religious/spiritual experience? Why could it not make it even more significant?

If it can be proven that the "religious experience" is nothing more than a bio-chemical imbalance or the result of an under-developed region of the brain, then it will have been proven that the "religious experience" is nothing more than a brain defect that can be cured or treated with drugs or surgery.

Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Imagine a world in which religion receives the same treatment as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder ... imagine a world filled with rational people that are fully in touch with reality ... imagine schools that teach science ...

It can't come soon enough.



salamandaqwerty
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04 Feb 2014, 9:58 am

Fnord wrote:
salamandaqwerty wrote:
Why would having a deeper understanding of the brains neurological processing of religious/spiritual functioning lessen an individuals religious/spiritual experience? Why could it not make it even more significant?

If it can be proven that the "religious experience" is nothing more than a bio-chemical imbalance or the result of an under-developed region of the brain, then it will have been proven that the "religious experience" is nothing more than a brain defect that can be cured or treated with drugs or surgery.

Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Imagine a world in which religion receives the same treatment as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder ... imagine a world filled with rational people that are fully in touch with reality ... imagine schools that teach science ...

It can't come soon enough.


Why is it when something is proved to be the result of a biochemical process it is usually preceded by the words 'mere' or 'nothing more' how does understanding something lessen it? I agree that schools should teach science and should be free from religious sillyness interfering with education


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TheGoggles
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04 Feb 2014, 10:24 am

You know, I don't agree with the Rastafarians on their more conservative religious principles, but I'm mostly down with them. Like The Bad Brains, for instance. Awesome band, one of the biggest all-black punk groups of all time, but they treat gay people like garbage. There was one notorious incident where another band let the Brains have some of their pot during a music festival. Brains vocalist HR found out that the guy who gave them the weed was gay, so he repaid his kindness by vandalizing the guy's house.

The bassist from the Bad Brains has recently said that he regrets all of the hate that he directed at gay people in the punk business, but I'm pretty sure HR hasn't changed his mind.



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04 Feb 2014, 10:45 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I can see how such things could make someone more in tune with the spirit world.


Nonsense, the 'spirit world' is an hallucination which can be triggered via the drugs. It exists only in a naturally delusional or chemically changed brain.


It's debatable whether there is a spirit world or not, if not than I guess I've always been 'naturally delusional' due to a few intresting experiances I've had ...as far as drugs, psychedelics are certainly mind opening but I've never had any kind of experiance involving spiritual entities on them. However due to the mind opening properties, if there is a spirt world I am sure they can open ones mind to it. Do you know what shamanism is?

And how is it nonsense if someone has a different opinion on the matter, and its a matter that cannot be proven or dis-proven?


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04 Feb 2014, 11:01 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
why would you want to worship a god that depend on dangerous toxins causing hallucinations?

To some god means death of thinking or to be more precise, brain tissue.


how about a link to a study or something that proves psychedelics cause death of thinking or brain tissue? Obviously they should not be abused, that probably can cause problems...just not sure brain tissue death is actually one of them. Also apparantly psilocybin can repair brain damage link.


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