yournamehere
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29 Jun 2014, 7:26 pm
The fact is. Science can only go so far. The rest is left up to your imagination.
It would appear that you are confusing evidence, probaility and fact. That we cannot necessarily prove something beyond absolute doubt does not mean the evidence cannot present a very high almost definite probaility of its existence.regarding human existence It's only in the nonsense fields of some philosophical thought bubbles where we get into existential crisis regarding am I really human or am I a tree. And as for imagination the bible goes a long way to demonstrate its existence, and evidence of dreams can be garenered using brain imaging and correlating these results with memories from the subject
My contention is that to call some thing a fact requires absolute proof and this is very hard to come by. Yet it is often called into play by people who have no other evidence than their own beliefs.
Essentially, your beliefs are all you have. A brain scan may tell you that something is going on. But it is not telling you what. You may go on to tell me that a tree has no brain, so it is not aware, but there is no proof of that either. This whole sherlock holmes evidence, probability, and fact thing belongs to a murder investigation or something. It is soo three dimensional.
The goof troop made some screwed up religion that makes no sence at all to a rational individual. I get that. Some peoples minds only go so far, and it is good enough for them. You should accept it. It may even be you. There may be other things going on that we may be able to learn, that we may not understand, or actually prove whith solid facts. There may be keys, and hidden ideas all around us. Waiting for us to find. The knowable. If you want to denounce everything that may be real, and unknown to you, and tell me you are sherlock holmes, it is science, it's not a fact, and there is no proof, than so be it. Unless you do it alone, it may be lowering the rest of us who choose to believe something in order to attain knowledge. And yes, sometimes there is a difference between what you know, and what is a fact. There are soo many unexplainable things all around us, it is hard, if not impossible for me to believe that science is all there is. Things that can be real, but if explained, can make you sound like a complete lunatic to others. Experiences I have had that I do not dare to talk about with a rational individual such as yourself. I'm pritty good at deciphering things. I like picking up pieces to puzzles everywhere I go. Those idiots in those books have something to say. Right or wrong, let them say it.
30 Jun 2014, 4:01 am
DentArthurDent
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30 Jun 2014, 6:37 pm
The fact is. Science can only go so far. The rest is left up to your imagination.
It would appear that you are confusing evidence, probaility and fact. That we cannot necessarily prove something beyond absolute doubt does not mean the evidence cannot present a very high almost definite probaility of its existence.regarding human existence It's only in the nonsense fields of some philosophical thought bubbles where we get into existential crisis regarding am I really human or am I a tree. And as for imagination the bible goes a long way to demonstrate its existence, and evidence of dreams can be garenered using brain imaging and correlating these results with memories from the subject
My contention is that to call some thing a fact requires absolute proof and this is very hard to come by. Yet it is often called into play by people who have no other evidence than their own beliefs.
Essentially, your beliefs are all you have. A brain scan may tell you that something is going on. But it is not telling you what. You may go on to tell me that a tree has no brain, so it is not aware, but there is no proof of that either. This whole sherlock holmes evidence, probability, and fact thing belongs to a murder investigation or something. It is soo three dimensional.
The goof troop made some screwed up religion that makes no sence at all to a rational individual. I get that. Some peoples minds only go so far, and it is good enough for them. You should accept it. It may even be you. There may be other things going on that we may be able to learn, that we may not understand, or actually prove whith solid facts. There may be keys, and hidden ideas all around us. Waiting for us to find. The knowable. If you want to denounce everything that may be real, and unknown to you, and tell me you are sherlock holmes, it is science, it's not a fact, and there is no proof, than so be it. Unless you do it alone, it may be lowering the rest of us who choose to believe something in order to attain knowledge. And yes, sometimes there is a difference between what you know, and what is a fact. There are soo many unexplainable things all around us, it is hard, if not impossible for me to believe that science is all there is. Things that can be real, but if explained, can make you sound like a complete lunatic to others. Experiences I have had that I do not dare to talk about with a rational individual such as yourself. I'm pritty good at deciphering things. I like picking up pieces to puzzles everywhere I go. Those idiots in those books have something to say. Right or wrong, let them say it.
I do believe that there are things we do not even know exist, ie we do not even know we don't know about them. The whole point of my post was to point out that it is often the religious who state FACTS. Now you may believe that you have experienced some kind of supernatural occurrence, many people claim this, but they do this without acknowledging all the potential co factors e.g , all the environmental inputs, all the potential naturalistic causes , the knowledge of how our brain works and its capacity for hallucination etc.
As for the trope that people like me are to closed to experience mysticism and we are holding back the advancement of human knowledge that is a very tired argument, and one that should be immediately understood as a logical fallacy. Without the move away from mysticism and folklore we would not have the modern technological age.
As I said at the start, I believe there are things we do not even know exist. But given the ever increasing understanding of our universe, and the ever decreasing evidence for the supernatural, I suspect these 'things' will be entirely naturalistic. As for occurrences that are presently explained by some as supernatural, I expect in time we will come to understand them from a naturalistic perspective, For example I don't doubt people have encountered what they describe as 'ghosts' what I do doubt is that these are the ethereal souls of the dead., But I do expect that one day we will be able to explain what they are. I also dont doubt that once we can explain what 'ghosts' are and even predict patterns in their appearances, people will still demand as a Fact that they are the souls of the dead.
yournamehere
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30 Jun 2014, 9:20 pm
I took you a whole day to get back to me. Must have needed some ammo. 
On the contrary. There are things that exist for us that have been brought to our attention. For the most part, it doesn't matter. People choose to believe whatever they want. However, when two people do something together, and have a discussion about it, I would hardly call it a hallucination.
Mysticism is some weird western terminology for something that reminds me of harry potter or something. Some goofball preching about talking to god, and waving around a magic wand or something. The word "supernatural" is a goofy one too. Humans do not posess any kind of special abilities to be supernatural. That would be like saying Jimi Hendrix was a supernatural guitar player? As for folklore. Let's just call it gay. Nobody walked on water. Unless it was frozen.
The whole ghost theory is just plain weird. Whatever is going on with that stuff, obviously got blown all the way out into chaos. For the most part, I don't believe in ghosts. My grandma is not floating around telling me to be good Johnny.
All this stuff you are trying to talk to me about is a bunch of "civilized" western fairy tale mambo jambo. I don't know where or how people come up with this stuff, and I do not care about all of that.
I can see why you try soo hard to disembowel these ways of thinking.
30 Jun 2014, 10:28 pm
1. I believe in God, one in three persons. I am a practicing Catholic and (for the most part) align myself with the teachings of the Church.
2. I will apply the J.O.Y. principle to my life--Jesus first, then others, and lastly yourself. I will not do anything that unfairly puts myself before others or God. For example, trying to win a competition would be acceptable even if it means others have to lose, but eating the last cookie when you know you got it last time would not be.
3. I will always hold myself to a higher standard of behavior than I expect of others. Hypocrisy by someone else will cause me to not take them as seriously, and it's wrong in and of itself.
4. I respect human life, rights and integrity from conception to death. Everyone deserves to be treated with the same dignity and respect inherent in their humanity. No one has the right to remove anyone else's life, rights or integrity without just cause. This covers not only killing, but other things such as violations of freedom, bullying, hurting another person without just cause and so on.
5. I will always be fair. I will not lie, cheat or steal, and I will not support those who do.
6. When I say I'm going to do something, I do it. Fidelity is an important virtue.
7. I will work hard and play hard. Laziness is bad, but I will also maintain balance in my life. There is a difference.
8. Self-control is a virtue, and lust is a vice. It doesn't have to be sexual--you can have food-lust or fun-lust, too. Mastery of one's basic desires is an essential part of personal improvement.
9. The above standards are the ones I apply to my own behavior. For other people, I believe that they should be able to do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting other people.
Are these good standards to live by? 
DentArthurDent
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01 Jul 2014, 6:16 am
Really, you think this? trust me when I say the only research i need to carry out discuss your posts is the occasional visit to the dictionary to check my spelling. Sadly the posters who had me groping for answers, searching through books, trawling the internet, subscribing to journals and in the process learning so much, no longer post here.
All this stuff you are trying to talk to me about is a bunch of "civilized" western fairy tale mambo jambo. I don't know where or how people come up with this stuff, and I do not care about all of that.
I can see why you try soo hard to disembowel these ways of thinking.
So I read from this that your experiences of the supernatural (BTW supernatural is not a goofy word it is the correct term to describe something which is regarded as not subject to the laws of physics) are legitimate and all the rest are false/nonsensical. If I understand you correctly your level of conceit is mindblowing. If you really think that two people experiencing the same event in the same way determines its voracity you should look into the area of group hallucination/mass hysteria. Many of the belief systems which you denounce as "goofball", or by that horrid term "its gay" have not two witnesses but tens, hundreds even thousands, all claiming to experience the same thing
Group Hallucination
yournamehere
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01 Jul 2014, 7:21 am
DentArthurDent
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01 Jul 2014, 8:21 am
yournamehere
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01 Jul 2014, 9:06 am
yournamehere
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01 Jul 2014, 9:09 am
2. I will apply the J.O.Y. principle to my life--Jesus first, then others, and lastly yourself. I will not do anything that unfairly puts myself before others or God. For example, trying to win a competition would be acceptable even if it means others have to lose, but eating the last cookie when you know you got it last time would not be.
3. I will always hold myself to a higher standard of behavior than I expect of others. Hypocrisy by someone else will cause me to not take them as seriously, and it's wrong in and of itself.
4. I respect human life, rights and integrity from conception to death. Everyone deserves to be treated with the same dignity and respect inherent in their humanity. No one has the right to remove anyone else's life, rights or integrity without just cause. This covers not only killing, but other things such as violations of freedom, bullying, hurting another person without just cause and so on.
5. I will always be fair. I will not lie, cheat or steal, and I will not support those who do.
6. When I say I'm going to do something, I do it. Fidelity is an important virtue.
7. I will work hard and play hard. Laziness is bad, but I will also maintain balance in my life. There is a difference.
8. Self-control is a virtue, and lust is a vice. It doesn't have to be sexual--you can have food-lust or fun-lust, too. Mastery of one's basic desires is an essential part of personal improvement.
9. The above standards are the ones I apply to my own behavior. For other people, I believe that they should be able to do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting other people.
Are these good standards to live by?
Probably.
