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hyena
Deinonychus
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13 Feb 2014, 5:16 pm

In order to get a unit of nutrition off an animal's flesh the animal must consume 10 units of nutrition in plant foods. So if there is less consumption of animal products there will be a lower need for plant foods, and consequently less insects will die from pesticides. By consuming meat one is responsible for ten times the amount of deaths by pesticides as compared to eating the plants directly. And that is besides the tormented animals. So this makes things even worse for non-vegans.
I think we should avoid pesticides though I have not researched this well.

RustDogofAus wrote:
Here's what I know:
I completely understand about animals having feelings.
40% of all the wheat, rice and barley grown by humans is used to feed livestock.
46% of the carcass of cattle will be discarded as unfit for human consumption and will be sold off cheaply for pet food (or pulped up for hotdogs and fast food restaurant meat)
Every 1kg of steak will add up to 10 000 kg of cereals and 100,000L water
Of the meat deemed fit for human consumption, 7% will be thrown away by the markets for being spoiled or damaged during transit.
There is also the massive annual death toll on predatory animals whom prey on livestock due to the inadequate animal husbandry practices on behalf of the farmer and his/her farmhands.
That being said: while a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet is seen as beneficial for larger forms of life, it is not without harm to animals either; consider the pesticides used to kill insects, as well as killing of invading herbivores. Interesting note, the Honshu wolf of Japan was regarded as a guardian spirit of farmers for a long period due to their pressence lessening impacts of rats and boars on crops.



RustDogofAus
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13 Feb 2014, 5:54 pm

1080 (or Sodium Fluoroacetate) is a common pesticide used on insects and mammals in the U.S., New Zealand and Australia; the truth is it was developed by the nazi military chemists to wipe out towns by poisoning water supplies. No I am not making this up. Even they cancelled development because it was far too dangerous for them to use; a single teaspoon is more than enough to kill 100 people. The use of the poison has been banned in many countries as it is seen as a threat to national security. It dissolves easily in water. It has no smell, no taste and no antidote - ingestion is followed by a slow agonising death sometimes lasting for 10 hours or more, and if anything tries to touch or consume the flesh of a posioned victim they are poisoned too.
Also, of the cattle bred for consumption in Australia 70% will be exported to other countries, some who's slaughter practices are nothing short of barbaric all for the sake of religious belief (beaten to death or death by numerous non-fatal incisions). Regarding live transport (again Australia statistic)- up to 21% of the animals on a cargo ship will die in transit due to dehydration, cramped conditions and psychological trauma. I don't support the animal racing industries either, the dogs and horses that didn't make the cut will be unceremoniously shot. Some argue that the ones that make the grade are treated well, but that's only when they are seen as beneficial to the ones sponsoring them. Ex-race horses have horrific injuries physically and mentally, they are put through hell for someone's greed and pride. Don't get me started on the Iditarod.
I already know some vegetarian recipies and will consider going vegetarian, but vegan no.



hyena
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13 Feb 2014, 6:09 pm

That is great! Yaaaaaaaaaaaay :flower: :flower: :flower: :flower: :flower: :flower:
There are many recipes online too. Be sure to read on nutrition. This would also improve your health in the long run.

RustDogofAus wrote:
I already know some vegetarian recipies and will consider going vegetarian, but vegan no.


Thank you for the information on pesticides. I didn’t know it was that bad.
The way society treats animals (like property) is shameful to say the least.

RustDogofAus wrote:
1080 (or Sodium Fluoroacetate) is a common pesticide used on insects and mammals in the U.S., New Zealand and Australia; the truth is it was developed by the nazi military chemists to wipe out towns by poisoning water supplies. No I am not making this up. Even they cancelled development because it was far too dangerous for them to use; a single teaspoon is more than enough to kill 100 people. The use of the poison has been banned in many countries as it is seen as a threat to national security. It dissolves easily in water. It has no smell, no taste and no antidote - ingestion is followed by a slow agonising death sometimes lasting for 10 hours or more, and if anything tries to touch or consume the flesh of a posioned victim they are poisoned too.
Also, of the cattle bred for consumption in Australia 70% will be exported to other countries, some who's slaughter practices are nothing short of barbaric all for the sake of religious belief (beaten to death or death by numerous non-fatal incisions). Regarding live transport (again Australia statistic)- up to 21% of the animals on a cargo ship will die in transit due to dehydration, cramped conditions and psychological trauma. I don't support the animal racing industries either, the dogs and horses that didn't make the cut will be unceremoniously shot. Some argue that the ones that make the grade are treated well, but that's only when they are seen as beneficial to the ones sponsoring them. Ex-race horses have horrific injuries physically and mentally, they are put through hell for someone's greed and pride. Don't get me started on the Iditarod.



RustDogofAus
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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13 Feb 2014, 9:04 pm

Correction regarding origin of 1080: unsure as to whether or not intended to poison water sources.

The nazis developed it as a rat poison for occupied territories and later considered using it in concentration camps as an execution method, but because of it's virulent properties they discontinued its use.
Source: http://www.predatordefense.org/docs/108 ... -12-04.pdf



Last edited by RustDogofAus on 13 Feb 2014, 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ettina
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13 Feb 2014, 9:07 pm

Quote:
Seriously, they work as a team - males and females... and yet the male lion does practically nothing.


I don't think you're being fair to the male lions.

Here are some facts about male lions:

* they spend hours every day patrolling the border of their territory, alone or with their coalition partner(s), marking the borders so other lions are discouraged from intruding
* they suck at stalking prey because of their mane - often the hunt is more successful if the male hangs back and leaves it to the females
* they often join in on hunts with larger prey, once the females have got a hold on it, and use their increased size and strength to help bring it down
* they are the pride's main defense against rival prides, other predators, and dangerous animals such as buffalo (buffalo kill lion cubs any chance they get)
* a lion coalition typically rules a pride for 2-3 years before they are ousted by the next batch of males, and it takes several years before a young male has the slightest chance of ruling a pride, so for most of their life a male has to struggle along prideless with his mane interfering with hunting (incidentally, lions steal more kills from hyenas than vice versa - a statistic due mainly to prideless males)



hyena
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04 Jun 2014, 12:06 am

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