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pddtwinmom
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16 Feb 2014, 11:37 pm

Thanks for sharing your perspective, zooguy. I'm wondering if it is a bit of a memory issue. We've been doing time outs, which he hates, but then he'll go right back to the behavior. I'm wondering if he's not connecting the time out to the behavior, or maybe forgetting how much he hates them...

Waterfalls - I didn't see your other post about how your child didn't really understand until they were 3 until just now - sorry! But I think you could be right - he might just be too young to get it. Also, he's very connected to his blocks. They're circular, which is very appealing to him given his propensity to spin. He carries them around when he's not spinning, and cries like his heart is broken when they're taken away. My philosophy was to let him have them because they're comforting. He still manages to participate in other activities and he's super social. Taking them away seemed akin to taking away a child's security blanket. I figured that once he was older, he could decide for himself with if/when he still needed them. Knowing how tied to them that he is, would you still take them away? I would for an NT child, but I'm hesitating here.



Last edited by pddtwinmom on 16 Feb 2014, 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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16 Feb 2014, 11:40 pm

I had a similar experience with time outs and confiscations as Raptor. My parents said I was a difficult child to punish because I never seemed to mind anything (I could always escape into myself). I had great parents though. The best parenting tools they used were logical (often funny) consequences and earning my trust (over time). Once they had my trust, I became a much easier child to parent. They earned my trust by letting me know they knew *me* (not a pretend me) and from me observing some of the choices they made were beneficial for me.

Even if your child has a similar reaction to taking away a toy, it's not to say that it wouldn't still be beneficial. Time away from blocks means he isn't continuing to build the memory of throwing blocks.

The throwing blocks example, to me, sounds like "any kid" behavior and I would treat it as such. I would use the background knowledge that he might need something specific to modify plans for the future or help me relax...but I would still treat the child the same as any child in the moment.

For a 2-year-old throwing blocks, I would likely do something like this:

-REDIRECTION: using my knowledge of the child, I would make an educated guess as to if he was most attracted to the blocks or most attracted to throwing. If blocks, I would say something to the effect of, "it isn't safe to throw blocks, let me show you a way to play with blocks safely". If throwing, "it isn't safe to throw blocks, you may [throw rolled socks into a bucket], [throw balls when we go outside], [choose something else to play with]".

-FOLLOW-THROUGH: it would then be important to follow through with whatever action you stated. Cries are normal, it's frustrating to not be able to use one's budding autonomy! But, the child must choose an appropriate activity. I tend to follow this general sequence->
1) redirection/suggestion (stating, "it isn't safe to throw blocks" *is* a statement not a request. It allows for some measure of autonomy--which can be great for a toddler--as the child then could choose an alternative action that fits within the new parameters. However, not all kids will make the leap...though I tend to think having opportunities to do so will help them do it.)
2) blatant request - "you may not throw blocks" and/or "put the block down and choose another toy"
3) minimal physical assist (touch top of hand and gently guide towards floor)
4) full physical assist (guide hand towards floor, take block from hand, and guide hand away)

-DEAL WITH THE FALL OUT: the best thing to do after that is nothing. ...but that is expecting that the child is either being cooperative or obedient (even if crying is involved). If the child continues to throw blocks anyway or is disruptive in another way, that is when I would do a time out. Ideally, I would frame it as "calm down time", and have previously chosen a "calm yourself" spot...but when reality hits, I just do time out for age minutes.
--the only kid that doesn't work with is my AS son (he will use the time to plot revenge or endlessly stew about the issue...getting more and more upset). For him, it's been even more important to proactively give him tools for self-calming. He's 7 now and has BIG emotions, but can handle them (mostly) independently when they arise.



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17 Feb 2014, 4:51 am

I think disciplines for AS kids, needs as well disciplines from the parents. I had big struggles with my dad, so there never were any clear written rules, but anything depended on his shooty mood, which I hardly could know about. What was ok the one day, was not ok the next day, because of his sh***y mood. As well that for him "punishing" simply meant to mindlessly rant and blame around, and make everyone show, that he simply wants to make you feel bad in any way, anyway if it was related to the "behavorial issue" or not.

When I was in border school later, I never had any problems and did not even get one single entry about behavorial issue.

There were clear written rules.
That rules did not depend on someones sh***y mood, but on pure logic.
"Punishment" was not done in the meaning of making you feel bad, but in the meaning to care for the rules, because they had sense. As example: "Have bad marks in school - more learning time in the evening, no vacations on days before tests." Not to punish you, but so that the bad marks get better again. Room not tidied up in the morning? - Sent back to tidy it up. Not to punish you, but otherwise the floor cleaning team, cant do their job... There simply were no emotions about every s**t, but everything was logic. Not interested in eating today lunch? - No prob, but then you will be hungry until dinner or need to buy something yourself. ^^

But by all means, dont expect your kids to be able to "smell" your mood as typical NTs might be able to do.



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17 Feb 2014, 5:26 am

pddtwinmom wrote:
Hi everyone. I'm pretty new here. I'm the mom to two would wonderful little autistic boys. They're extremely high functioning, probably destined for Aspergers diagnoses. They're almost three years old.

My question is: which forms of discipline worked for you, but didn't kill your soul? We don't (and won't) spank. I'm sensitive to sensory issues, and I try to solve the reasons for bad behavior before it occurs. BUT - they're kids, and sometimes they're naughty. I want them to learn right from wrong, and more importantly, I need to keep them safe.

So...what do you think? I intentionally asked the question here, as opposed to in the parenting section because I wanted to go straight to the source. Thanks so much in advance!

hi pddtwinmom,
am roughly a week away from thirty years old,lower functioning and severely autistic and in terms of behavior have done best with visual charts as an adult- laminated colourful charts with removeable laminated symbols put on it every time the individual does something positive or reaches whatever goal-at the end of the track is a big star with a picture of a small gift or activity symbol velcroed on and that gift or activity must be carried out if they reach it.
but for challenging or negative behavior,a symbol gets removed so it takes longer to reach.
it allows a visual child to eventualy learn cause and effect of behavior, but they know they have got something good to work towards.

its tough for autistic kids especialy as they have even less emotional
regulation than us adults,including those of us who are of the low functioning spectrum.

woud also recommend the use of the traffic light system with him, am wearing mine in avatar-its laminated circles of card-one red,one green,one yellow; one means good,one means in the middle and one means bad-it allows those of us who cant express ourselves to communicate and in many cases cut down on challenging behavior.
if woud like to see a close up photo of the traffic light system just ask.


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17 Feb 2014, 6:53 am

Getting constructively chewed out has always worked for me.



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17 Feb 2014, 7:09 am

pddtwinmom wrote:
Waterfalls - I didn't see your other post about how your child didn't really understand until they were 3 until just now - sorry! But I think you could be right - he might just be too young to get it. Also, he's very connected to his blocks. They're circular, which is very appealing to him given his propensity to spin. He carries them around when he's not spinning, and cries like his heart is broken when they're taken away. My philosophy was to let him have them because they're comforting. He still manages to participate in other activities and he's super social. Taking them away seemed akin to taking away a child's security blanket. I figured that once he was older, he could decide for himself with if/when he still needed them. Knowing how tied to them that he is, would you still take them away? I would for an NT child, but I'm hesitating here.

I am sorry, too. I didn't mean to be confusing. I meant my child did not understand other people's perspectives as much as we expected her to as young as expected, no magic about age 3. Like what no and facial expressions meant and how to deal with the contradiction that inside her, she felt a rule should be followed while outside, it seemed to her the adult was not following the rules. Now she is very accommodating of others' perspectives, though, children can learn and grow tremendously.

About the blocks, I don't have the answer for you. For me, I would offer an alternative, but would still take them away. Not to teach a lesson, but because I'd be falling apart when I got hit or anyone was hurt, and that's a bad thing for everyone. That's my perspective, and the logic behind it is that I am the real security blanket for my child. As long as you are not so bothered by this issue that it interferes with you providing security to your child, I completely understand where you would prefer to try to teach your child to use the blocks safely if this is possible right now, and would only add that we have to avoid becoming as rigid as our children and it's ok to change your mind later if things change.

You sound like an amazing mom. I'm glad I came across your thread.



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17 Feb 2014, 7:59 am

Are parents sure that they aren't the ones with the issues? I always had bad asthma, so when I was exposed to passive smoke, which was almost constantly, I'd act up.
Nobody saw the connection between my acting up, and their causing my being hospitalised on a regular basis.



pddtwinmom
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17 Feb 2014, 8:14 am

Hi Stannis. It certainly could be me leading to the bad behavior. And I definitely try to stay aware of that. Thanks for raising it as a possibility.

kingdomofrats - thanks for sharing what was motivational for you. I had dismissed token boards as an option, but after reading your post, I might revisit that decision. Maybe I will try it for a few weeks and see if he responds well.

screen_name and Waterfalls - again, great posts!


Everyone, thanks again for taking the time to provide such insightful and detailed advice! I'm looking forward to trying some of the ideas you presented.

Best!



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17 Feb 2014, 5:25 pm

Hi, there! That's great that you want advice right "from the source!" You sound like a good mom. :D

My advice is if they have special interests, make sure you encourage them and make them available to them. Same with any coping items they might have. Make sure you don't use either one as punishment or reward, don't take them away, and don't shame them for liking what they like, or for needing coping items.


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pddtwinmom
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18 Feb 2014, 8:06 pm

Thanks Schneekugel and EzraS! LtPkCoupe - you raise good points. The toys he throws are related to his special interests, so that makes it extra tough to figure out the right approach. Again, I appreciate all of the wonderful advice!!



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18 Feb 2014, 9:01 pm

Maybe an area with things that can be thrown-in case it is actually a visual thing. Explaining very thoroughly about why he cannot throw the blocks and making sure he can somehow communicate understanding-not just nodding. I did that to just avoid the Lecture. Maybe follow up with him about why he should not do something. Pretty much what my parents did.



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18 Feb 2014, 9:12 pm

Oh well, I'm sure just talking to them and reasoning with them will work. That was sarcasm, smileys aren't working. I have AS, and I got my butt tore up by my mother and grandparents and thats what worked. But, if you don't want to do that, and you don't want to ever hit your precious angel, then certainly don't. But don't expect anything out of him in later life either ok?


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pddtwinmom
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18 Feb 2014, 10:56 pm

Drehmaschine - thanks! He's probably a little too young to understand, but I talk to him anyway waiting for the day he'll "get it".

OliveOilMom - I have to respectfully disagree about spanking being necessary. But, I appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts!