Does on this forum are any practicing Catholics?

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pawelk1986
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26 Feb 2014, 11:56 am

I would like to know what are your feelings towards the confession.

I have a problem with sin against the sixth commandment, I'm trying to improve myself but not always it work. I always after confession feel big relief as if I throw big rock from me, and generally feel much better.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Feb 2014, 5:06 pm

I don't like to confess.



babybird
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26 Feb 2014, 5:22 pm

I've never been a catholic except when I was a kid in the convent.

But I never went in a confession room.

I don't even think I am a catholic to be honest.


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91
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26 Feb 2014, 7:09 pm

I am a Catholic. Although I don't go to confession all that often.


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AngelRho
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01 Mar 2014, 10:21 am

Not Catholic here, but confession is relevant to every Christian.

The difference between someone like myself, a Baptist, and Catholics is when it comes to confession we don't believe we need a priest intercessor. Intercession doesn't hurt anyone, but I don't see going to a priest as absolutely necessary. It looks to me (someone correct me, here) that in actual practice a lot of Catholics don't, either, else there'd be more Catholics going to confession!

I'd like 91 to weigh in on this one: It's not so much that God requires us to confess our sins or that God requires us to have another human intercessory. God already knows BEFORE we sin that we've sinned. The question is whether we KNOW we've sinned and are willing to face up to our failures and trust God with healing us. In my view, God hears our prayers and confessions, so we don't need another middleman to get between us and God. But I think it IS important that Christians band together and "hear confessions" from each other, not just for intercessory prayer, but to help keep each other accountable for our actions. If I can't trust myself around alcohol, it helps if I have a close friend who knows this and will help keep the temptation away from me. My wife, for instance, HAS had a tendency to drink frequently in the past, and I'll throw a holy fit if someone so much as offers her a drink. We also have a poor record of stewarding money, so we're constantly telling each other "no" when the topic of buying new electronic devices, going to movies, or eating at restaurants comes up. Wife was BEGGING me to take us all to the favored Mexican place just last night because she didn't want to cook…I said forget it, just pick up a couple of frozen pizzas from the grocery. Or if I'm really itching to buy that iPod nano with the built in radio, she reminds me that we didn't even buy the kids any toys recently. I mean, we need each other to keep us honest, and I think that's especially important in Christian life. If going to a priest is what it takes, I've got no problem with that. I just don't think that's the ONLY way we have to go, nor is it my opinion that something like that is required.

Main point being is God doesn't need our confessions. WE need them.



simon_says
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01 Mar 2014, 10:38 am

I believe the idea is the Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sin. Why didn't he just tell them to tell people to ask forgiveness directly. It was a power given to them that the church claims can be passed on to their successors. There is another passage dealing with brothers, witnesses and informing the church that jibes more with what you've said.

Most of the confusion would have been avoided if Jesus had followed Caesar's example and written his own material. You wouldn't need 400 or 1500 or 2000 years of arguments and the odd holy war.



AngelRho
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01 Mar 2014, 12:08 pm

simon_says wrote:
I believe the idea is the Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sin. Why didn't he just tell them to tell people to ask forgiveness directly. It was a power given to them that the church claims can be passed on to their successors. There is another passage dealing with brothers, witnesses and informing the church that jibes more with what you've said.

Most of the confusion would have been avoided if Jesus had followed Caesar's example and written his own material. You wouldn't need 400 or 1500 or 2000 years of arguments and the odd holy war.

I don't recall that Jesus DID give the apostles the power to forgive sins. The only example I can think of offhand is Jesus telling someone that his sins were forgiven. Only God can forgive sins.

Some Christians, myself included here, believe that the "priesthood of believers" extends to ALL believers, not merely concentrating all power into a unified institution of priests. We are all given authority to spread the gospel, to open/shut things in earth/heaven, etc. It just goes along with the idea that nothing is impossible for a believer as long as God empowers the believer to do it.

You're right, though, I was referring to a different passage on informing the church. To me, acts of confession have to do with leaning on fellow believers to live a life consistent with righteousness, not about getting some special line straight to God through a priest who can act like some celestial bouncer who's there to keep undesirables out of the club. Keeping open lines with fellow Christians serves to help us grow and mature in faith. It's not about humiliation or deterrence. We human beings have a tendency to ask questions we already know the answer to…it's just strangely REAL when someone else says it first.

I dunno about "writing his own material." If I wrote right now that I'M the promised Messiah and proceeded to rewrite the Bible more along the lines of how I personally interpret scripture, would you automatically assume that I'm the Son of God and that MY gospels were true and correct in every way? Or would you handle it better with some degree of verification? I think Jesus wanted us to make up our own minds, not just assume that He's God in the flesh. The confusion that has historically risen comes from people trying to understand Christian truth, and all that set against a backdrop of political intrigue and personal agendas. What ultimately matters most is God's redemptive plan and obeying the Great Commandment. Even the 10 Commandments are a 60/40 split on how we are to relate to each other and how to relate to God respectively. If you love people and love God, you're going to obey those laws by default even if you aren't distinctly aware of them. Everything else is just details not intended to be endlessly squabbled over, and I think the role of confession before other Christians and/or priests is one such thing. Let's debate it in the interest of seeking truth, but let's not let it become a divisive issue.

I'm curious about 91's view because I happen to know he's much deeper in the catechism than a simple Baptist would be. All I know comes from the tidbits of literature the Catholic school sends home with our kids, and I don't mind explaining to our children why WE don't buy into this or that doctrine. 91 has the ability to be a lot more informative than I can on that topic.



simon_says
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01 Mar 2014, 12:22 pm

Quote:
So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained


His magic breath gave them the power. In Mark he also uses his saliva to heal people, which Luke and Mathew decided not to copy. In one of the saliva miracles he needs to do it twice which is a little embarrassing.



AngelRho
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01 Mar 2014, 12:35 pm

simon_says wrote:
Quote:
So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained


His magic breath gave them the power. In Mark he also uses his saliva to heal people, which Luke and Mathew decided not to copy. In one of the saliva miracles he needs to do it twice which is a little embarrassing.

OK…but spitting on people isn't what this passage is about.

The point there was that believers become co-heirs with Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven and thus, like Christ, have the authority to preach the gospel. We are to show forgiveness just as Christ forgave. If we don't show forgiveness the way Christ forgave, there's no reason for people to put their faith in anything we say. If they don't ask for forgiveness, they can't be forgiven. In that sense, we really do hold the keys to heaven. Christ is warning us to always be forgiving just as He is so that we don't unintentionally shut people out. That way, if someone refuses forgiveness after it is offered, the responsibility lies fully with THEM and their own free choices. We don't get the right to say, "hey, I want THAT guy to burn in hell, so no, I'm not forgiving him for anything."



simon_says
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01 Mar 2014, 1:03 pm

I'm just noting what I think is the bit that authorizes the forgiveness of sins by the representatives of the church. In this passage he's empowering some disciples and Catholics believe the church inherits the power. I'm sure there are many, many ways to come up with different answers from other interpretations of other passages or texts. The history of the faith shows that.



AngelRho
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01 Mar 2014, 2:29 pm

simon_says wrote:
I'm just noting what I think is the bit that authorizes the forgiveness of sins by the representatives of the church. In this passage he's empowering some disciples and Catholics believe the church inherits the power. I'm sure there are many, many ways to come up with different answers from other interpretations of other passages or texts. The history of the faith shows that.

Yeah, I kinda see what you're saying. And that's why I can't really continue the discussion. But I'm no less interested in a Catholic perspective on the matter.

However, I have noticed that the Catholic church has adjusted its views over the centuries, and in some brief discussions I've had with 91 and IRL discussions with Catholics, I've found that many views are not necessarily incompatible with my own. It's more often a semantic issue. Same goes for speaking in tongues in Pentecostal churches. Where I most strongly differ with Catholics relates to Mariology and the role of works. But I generally stay out of those kinds of discussions because I find dwelling on divisive issues among Christians does more harm than good.