Conservative Religious Upbringing = More rebellion?

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NinsMom
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16 Mar 2014, 6:01 pm

It almost seems as if the more conservative the religious upbringing, the more young adults & teens are prone to rebel. (not all of them) They often rebel by going directly against the directives of their religious institutions, or simply by indulging in "Sin", as it is seen by their parents, & their religion.
As a person of no faith (Humanist) I've often found this odd. The things that are done in rebellion are often simply forms of self abuse, & the aspect of actual "rebellion" is totally lost. They are not rebelling, they are being contrary or reactive to a set of mental & sometimes physical constraints. It seems at times a bit tiresome, obvious, & counter productive. They could explore what they Want, rather than what they don't want. It all seems like peeing into a gale, or cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Some of the threads here have talked about exploring other religions, satanism, agnostic belief, atheism, nihilism etc.,& probably humanism too. Often the disappointment with a give faith leads people to look elsewhere to renew a kind of faith. (& in some of the oddest places!) 8O

It is so confusing to a person of no faith that one would look @ going 180 degrees in the opposite direction to find something that they could live with & believe in. Why not simply alter the things you can in your life to suit your conscience & personal beliefs? If this requires you to leave your faith, that is a decision that you must make. Does it mean that you must 'go shopping' for a replacement? Maybe it does, but to a person of no faith, this just seems like a kind of addiction. (I'm switching out this drug for that drug.)

Neither Humanism, Atheism, Agnosticism believe in satan & neither does the Jewish religion but Jews do believe in god.
We Do NOT worship something that we do not believe in
! I did see a post here on another thread that claimed that atheists are satan worshipers & that's simply not correct. We have no belief in a personified supreme being & no belief in a personified supreme evil either.

If a person finds comfort & support in any faith, creed, or philosophy, I applaud them & wish them well.
I'm happy with my life, my conscience is pretty clear, & I have no wish to be "Saved, Converted, Resurrected etc." @ this time. So Please Don't try. :D



simon_says
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16 Mar 2014, 6:07 pm

I think that's true in some cases.

On the flip side Ive read that conservative churches are not sinking as quickly as the old mainline liberal denominations. Where there is structure, enforced social expectations and a heavier hand from the community you might get better retention. Or not. It's just something Ive seen raised by believers. The strong pimp hand theory of church attendance



khaoz
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16 Mar 2014, 7:02 pm

From my perspective Conservatism and religion are like oil and water. I think that is the whole problem right there. Religion should be about peace and love, Conservatism is about power, domination, confrontation. They naturally contradict each other, so they contaminate each other. Conservatism spills out. Religion transforms from within, without force.



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16 Mar 2014, 7:23 pm

It's pretty unnerving how many notorious serial killers had alcoholic fathers and SUPER religious mothers. I'm not sure which element is more important, but guys like Ed Gein sort of "worshiped" their mother in a way. Then again, old Ed was legitimately mentally disabled and one of the few people to get a successful insanity plea, so who knows?



NinsMom
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16 Mar 2014, 11:30 pm

One thing that continually catches me unaware is when religion just pops up in general conversation. I was talking to a friend who is Catholic, & one of the few who never misses Sunday mass.
We were talking about the 2nd. Harry Potter movie, & she has a teenage daughter. She said that neither she nor her daughter had read the books or seen the movies because the Church was against them. The suggestion of sorcery/magic made them off limits. They both did become fans later. She has seen the Hobbit movies & I have not looked to see if they are off limits because of magic etc. with some churches.
I know some people here tried to get the Potter books out of the school libraries. It didn't work. Are the Brother's Grimm fairy tales on the same off limits list?
I remember the 'stink' that Madonna's song "Papa Don't Preach" started. I couldn't understand any of the controversy. It's only a song, & not very modern in topic. A girl gets pregnant. That's been happening for a long long time. No big news there. She decides to keep her baby. O.k. -Carry on Madonna. That's not unheard of.
( But "Why didn't she use contraceptives?" :? NO NO NO!! ! You cannot ask that question because she is Catholic ! ! Oops, I'm sorry. I forgot about that. Forgive my heathen ignorance. :oops: )

I find that being asked about "My Faith" by a total stranger to be nosy, intrusive & far too complicated to be explained in a few short minutes. (& these kind of folks want a Quick answer, not a thoughtful answer.) "Have you got about an hour?" "How about my shoe size? I can tell you that very quickly?"

I agree that the popularity of the more right wing churches seems to have forced the main stream churches to become more conservative to meet that demand. Do people really need more simple answers to more difficult questions?

Some of the right wing churches here have some of the richest & most influential people in their congregations. The presence of some of the U.S. extremely right wing groups here makes me very nervous. They can have tremendous political & social influence.

When you see young people go off the rails because they can't meet the expectations of one of these 'New Fangled-Olde Time Religion' churches, it's heart breaking. So much destruction & anger on all sides because a young person cannot live in a modern world within the confines of their faith. It's worse for the girls. They are judged more harshly.
When girls rebel, they usually take the almost church sanctioned ways to rebel. Substance abuse, which usually leads to them being abused & exploited. (sometimes by members of their own faith community) It's not rebellion in any way that I understand it. It's self abuse because they cannot live up to many unreal expectations.
They may be shunned, then forgiven, but there is always an asterisk or 2 after their names. That really isn't forgiveness, & it's certainly not Christian in any way that I understand it. :(



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16 Mar 2014, 11:48 pm

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Conservative Religious Upbringing = More rebellion?

Depends on who's being brung up and who's doing the upbringing. My mother (a liberal democrat except when the wind blows the other direction) dragged my brother and I off to Sunday school followed by church almost every Sunday. When I was 15 she finally got tired of my bitching every Sunday morning and let me off the hook. My problem wasn't going to church, it was having to get out of bed early on Weekends.


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khaoz
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16 Mar 2014, 11:57 pm

NinsMom wrote:
One thing that continually catches me unaware is when religion just pops up in general conversation. I was talking to a friend who is Catholic, & one of the few who never misses Sunday mass.
We were talking about the 2nd. Harry Potter movie, & she has a teenage daughter. She said that neither she nor her daughter had read the books or seen the movies because the Church was against them. The suggestion of sorcery/magic made them off limits. They both did become fans later. She has seen the Hobbit movies & I have not looked to see if they are off limits because of magic etc. with some churches.
I know some people here tried to get the Potter books out of the school libraries. It didn't work. Are the Brother's Grimm fairy tales on the same off limits list?
I remember the 'stink' that Madonna's song "Papa Don't Preach" started. I couldn't understand any of the controversy. It's only a song, & not very modern in topic. A girl gets pregnant. That's been happening for a long long time. No big news there. She decides to keep her baby. O.k. -Carry on Madonna. That's not unheard of.
( But "Why didn't she use contraceptives?" :? NO NO NO!! ! You cannot ask that question because she is Catholic ! ! Oops, I'm sorry. I forgot about that. Forgive my heathen ignorance. :oops: )

I find that being asked about "My Faith" by a total stranger to be nosy, intrusive & far too complicated to be explained in a few short minutes. (& these kind of folks want a Quick answer, not a thoughtful answer.) "Have you got about an hour?" "How about my shoe size? I can tell you that very quickly?"

I agree that the popularity of the more right wing churches seems to have forced the main stream churches to become more conservative to meet that demand. Do people really need more simple answers to more difficult questions?

Some of the right wing churches here have some of the richest & most influential people in their congregations. The presence of some of the U.S. extremely right wing groups here makes me very nervous. They can have tremendous political & social influence.

When you see young people go off the rails because they can't meet the expectations of one of these 'New Fangled-Olde Time Religion' churches, it's heart breaking. So much destruction & anger on all sides because a young person cannot live in a modern world within the confines of their faith. It's worse for the girls. They are judged more harshly.
When girls rebel, they usually take the almost church sanctioned ways to rebel. Substance abuse, which usually leads to them being abused & exploited. (sometimes by members of their own faith community) It's not rebellion in any way that I understand it. It's self abuse because they cannot live up to many unreal expectations.
They may be shunned, then forgiven, but there is always an asterisk or 2 after their names. That really isn't forgiveness, & it's certainly not Christian in any way that I understand it. :(


Our family grew up being forced to go to church every Sunday back in the 60's. 4 sisters. Every one of them dropped out of school by age 15, had multiple kids by 20, two of them married by 17, all of them at least thrice divorced and lived multiple times with men out of wedlock during their lives. All in 50's now and biggest cross wagers you ever saw in your life. Never remember them talking about or going to church after they had kids, until they all got into their 50's, sinning happily their whole lives never mentioning God or Jesus. Now its like an avalanche of Jesus posts on FB. I don't get it. The church ingrains that guilt so deeply in peoples consciousness when they are children that as they approach the end they all of a sudden get "faith" again. It freaks me out big time. That religion crap never stuck to me for some reason, even though we all had the same childhood indoctrination. I don't think any of them have read a Harry Potter book, certainly none of them have ever read the Hobbit. They don't even remember Star Trek, or Star Wars, but everyone of them has read Stephen King, who I cannot stand.

Is it just a female thing? I don't understand.



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17 Mar 2014, 1:28 am

I see a great deal of truth in the initial OP. I have a friend who had been raised in the World Wide Church Of God, which by his own admission fits the definition of a cult. He had been raised with the old Judaic dietary laws, the literalism of fundamentalist Baptists, and the heartlessness of the prosperity gospel (poor people don't get to be saved, or else they'd be blessed materially in this life), along with very right wing politics, even though his family were dirt poor. Today, he is a self-described communist and an atheist.


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17 Mar 2014, 1:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I see a great deal of truth in the initial OP. I have a friend who had been raised in the World Wide Church Of God, which by his own admission fits the definition of a cult. He had been raised with the old Judaic dietary laws, the literalism of fundamentalist Baptists, and the heartlessness of the prosperity gospel (poor people don't get to be saved, or else they'd be blessed materially in this life), along with very right wing politics, even though his family were dirt poor. Today, he is a self-described communist and an atheist.


religion will do that to you if they don't totally incapacitate mentally you by the time you are 10yo you still have a chance to get out with your sanity.



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17 Mar 2014, 1:48 am

khaoz wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I see a great deal of truth in the initial OP. I have a friend who had been raised in the World Wide Church Of God, which by his own admission fits the definition of a cult. He had been raised with the old Judaic dietary laws, the literalism of fundamentalist Baptists, and the heartlessness of the prosperity gospel (poor people don't get to be saved, or else they'd be blessed materially in this life), along with very right wing politics, even though his family were dirt poor. Today, he is a self-described communist and an atheist.


religion will do that to you if they don't totally incapacitate mentally you by the time you are 10yo you still have a chance to get out with your sanity.


I don't know if I qualify as mentally sound :lol:, but I was raised in a church going family. Luckily, it was a mainline denomination (Lutheran), and so I was never exposed to the lunacy so common to evangelical theology and other right wing religions.


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17 Mar 2014, 2:35 am

I believe all of us are prone to sin, because we have an inner nature that's been corrupted for a very long time. I also think that the more extreme offenses from young people are often the result of adults not explaining their reasons to those in their charge. Ever since I was a child, I've hated the standard "because I said so" excuse, and I still do. Too many parents expect their kids to accept what they say just because they've been alive longer...but maturity is not tied to age. Kids should obey their parents, so long as doing so does not conflict with the laws set down by God. For example, I'd disobey my Mom in a second if she told me to murder, steal, rape, or anything else that's reprehensible. Another factor is that most parents don't even try to properly raise their own kids these days, because their careers or hobbies come first. Plus, the Feds keep interfering with ridiculous laws that should be done anyway out of common sense. An example of that is legal penalties for not wearing a seat belt. You don't know what kind of crazy drivers are on the road, so if for no other reason, at least wear a restraint to keep yourself from going through the windshield.


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