On the subject of mentally ill men who think they're women
Sometimes, a pre-op transsexual woman (pre-op = has not had sex reassignment surgery, but wants it), frustrated with her state, will attempt suicide, requiring placement in a psychiatric facility. Psychiatric facilities divide men and women, either by having separate wards for them or by having separate semi-private room placements. For this poll, let us look at the situation of separate wards for men and women; generally a transsexual person will be given their own private room. Let us assume this pre-op transsexual woman has been living full-time as a woman and is currently on hormone replacement therapy. Where should we place her?
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
lostonearth35
Veteran
Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,898
Location: Lost on Earth, waddya think?
Huh. The psych ward at the hospital in my city doesn't have separate rooms for gender or private rooms. I know the UK has much better medical care than Canada, which is only slightly less horrible than the US. Also they don't separate patients in rooms based on the severity of their mental illness. Years ago I once had to share a room with a woman who kept trying to strangle herself by wrapping a short towel around her neck.
And my city is not even a real city, but more of a large hick town with a couple of city-type characteristics. I'm not sure if they would be tolerant of someone openly transgender. It's surprising enough that we even have a pride parade once a year. There must be at least 50 churches in this city!
OliveOilMom
Veteran
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere
She should be placed in the women's ward. She's living like a woman, she IS a woman in all ways except for the weiner. She's no threat to the women and in fact it would probably help her be more receptive to therapy and treatment to be treated with the respect she deserves as the person who she is.
_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.
The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com
The poll would be better if you left out the "because" part of the options. There are reasons other than the ones you've given to choose the various options.
Also, there's no such thing as men "living full-time as women." Womanhood is not a lifestyle.
What the heck do they have then? One giant one-room warehouse?
That's ridiculous. Gender is in one's DNA. Period.
Actually, there are several dimensions to considering a person's sex/gender:
1. DNA
2. Type of gonads present, if they are (if not, then neuter)
3. Primary sexual characteristics; may be mixed
4. Secondary sexual characteristics present, if they are (if not, then neuter); may be mixed
5. Dominant sex hormone regime, androgens is male, estrogens/progestogens is female, and otherwise is neuter
6. Sex/gender identity
7. Sex/gender role
A pre-op transsexual woman is like this:
1. male
2. male, unless orchiectomy has been performed, then neuter
3. male
4. male if not on hormones, mixed moving to female if on hormones
5. male if not on hormones and no orchiectomy, and neuter if not on hormones but had orchiectomy, and female if on hormones
6. female
7. male if not transitioned, female otherwise
A post-op transsexual woman graduates to:
1. male
2. neuter
3. close to female
4. largely female, but may still have some male characteristics like facial hair
5. neuter if not on hormones, female if on hormones
6. female
7. female
A woman with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome who still has her testes is like this:
1. male
2. male
3. close to female
4. female
5. a bit complicated: androgens are produced (male), but since they are not used by the body they are switched to estrogens (female)
6. female (almost 100%)
7. female
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Last edited by beneficii on 05 Apr 2014, 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's ridiculous. Gender is in one's DNA. Period.
Actually, there are several dimensions to considering a person's sex/gender:
No there aren't. Sex is defined as the reproductive role one is equipped to play. Either one can sire children, one can bear children, or neither. As for "gender," I won't comment on that because everyone has their own definition nowadays, so it's impossible to know what anyone is referring to.
Type of gonads present, if they are (if not, then neuter)
Primary sexual characteristics; may be mixed
Secondary sexual characteristics present, if they are (if not, then neuter); may be mixed
Dominant sex hormone regime, androgens is male, estrogens/progestogens is female, and otherwise is neuter
Sex/gender identity
Sex/gender role
Some of these other things correlate with sex, but none of them determine one's sex.
That's ridiculous. Gender is in one's DNA. Period.
Actually, there are several dimensions to considering a person's sex/gender:
No there aren't. Sex is defined as the reproductive role one is equipped to play. Either one can sire children, one can bear children, or neither.
Type of gonads present, if they are (if not, then neuter)
Primary sexual characteristics; may be mixed
Secondary sexual characteristics present, if they are (if not, then neuter); may be mixed
Dominant sex hormone regime, androgens is male, estrogens/progestogens is female, and otherwise is neuter
Sex/gender identity
Sex/gender role
Some of these other things correlate with sex, but none of them determine one's sex.
Nope. It can get complicated; here's a source that discusses it:
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/artic ... ction.html
(scroll down to point 2 on sexual development)
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/artic ... ction.html
(scroll down to point 2 on sexual development)
Littler or none of that has any bearing on sex. Behavior is not sex. Hormones are not sex. Thoughts are not sex. Socialization is not sex. Do people go out and observe the behavior of horses, pigs, or cows to determine their sex? Do they try to figure out what their dogs, cats, fish, and hampsters are thinking, whether monkeys display homosexual behavior, or what sorts of hormones elephants and tigers were exposed to? No, because an animal's sex is its reproductive function, and that's all.
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/artic ... ction.html
(scroll down to point 2 on sexual development)
Littler or none of that has any bearing on sex. Behavior is not sex. Hormones are not sex. Thoughts are not sex. Socialization is not sex. Do people go out and observe the behavior of horses, pigs, or cows to determine their sex? Do they try to figure out what their dogs, cats, fish, and hampsters are thinking, whether monkeys display homosexual behavior, or what sorts of hormones elephants and tigers were exposed to? No, because an animal's sex is its reproductive function, and that's all.
So how do we determine the sex of sterile people? Do we classify them as neuter?
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
If they can't reproduce, there is nothing to determine. Sex is a scientific classification system. I can't think of a scientific reason to reproductively classify those who cannot reproduce, except to say that they cannot reproduce. It would be like classifying flight patterns of flightless birds.
But let me ask you something that I don't understand: If sex is made up of those things you listed, what exactly is it? What is the meaning or significance of it, being made up of so many wildly diverse components? What definition could you give it? And in the end, how would one determine which sex someone was? For example, if I had a list like you did:
1. male
2. male
3. female,
etc., for the different aspects, how would I put it all together?
If they can't reproduce, there is nothing to determine. Sex is a scientific classification system. I can't think of a scientific reason to reproductively classify those who cannot reproduce, except to say that they cannot reproduce. It would be like classifying flight patterns of flightless birds.
But let me ask you something that I don't understand: If sex is made up of those things you listed, what exactly is it? What is the meaning or significance of it, being made up of so many wildly diverse components? What definition could you give it? And in the end, how would one determine which sex someone was? For example, if I had a list like you did:
1. male
2. male
3. female,
etc., for the different aspects, how would I put it all together?
I was just saying that for some people, they have unusual bodies and minds, so to speak, that differ from the 2 reproductive sexes. It's a way of laying it all out there and seeing which of 2 reproductive sexes is this feature more like? Of course, with the current binary classification of sticking someone as either male or female, what do you do with the sterile people?
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
A transwoman should not have to be forced to live with regular men if she does not want to. She would probably feel alienated and possibly have concerns about her safety with regards to other people living there who may be hostile to her because of her gender identity.
Maybe she should either have a separate set aside living area, or be allowed to live in a women's ward if she thinks the women will treat her okay.
Similar Topics | |
---|---|
Random Women |
22 Apr 2024, 12:11 pm |
Reasons women do not date us! |
15 Apr 2024, 4:05 pm |
International Women's Day 2024 |
09 Mar 2024, 3:32 pm |
Women online say they were punched while walking in NYC |
30 Mar 2024, 4:04 am |