How to be affectionate toward an Aspie?

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This is something that's proving to be a bit of an uphill battle to me. So time to open the floodgates...I'd like to see what everyone here thinks. The most valuable advice I can get is from other Aspies, after all!

I'm an NT gal...yep, sure many of you are aware of this already. I'm 20 years old, in a full-time job etc...the usual. I'm also addicted to Subarus...there are few that can top my love of the Impreza One of the boys from the local Subaru club took a fancy to me, apparently...17 years old, and with the same model of Subaru as me (we both own an Impreza HX20s each...his is a wagon, mine is a sedan). He's cute as hell, I have to say...lovely features, eyes you could get lost in. We both get s**t for our cars...Subarus are known for being gravel-bashing turbo monsters that smoke tarmac just as well, some with a 0-100km/h run in 5 seconds or less. Ours? They're 'slow'...they have no turbo. Go figure. Hence, local Subie owners like to be just a little mean at times...but nothing we can't handle. We still smoke 'em in grass competitions

This guy and I started spending a LOT of time together...we really liked each other's company, had so many similar opinions. At the same time, my relationship with my b/f at the time was going downhill...decided to just drop it because it wasn't working. Of course, I got pounced on immediately... Apparently he'd been chasing me for a while, in a more-than-friend way...but in a fashion I've noticed is fairly typical around here, he didn't know when/how to just freggin' start the flirting already

It was only a week or two into the relationship that I discovered he was an Aspie. My reaction? You guys will be impressed. I was telling him about one of my awesome friends who happened to have Aspergers...how she was making a good name for anyone and everyone with 'conditions' etc simply by living her life as well as she was...successful and happy. Of course, he took that opportunity to say...well, 'me too'. Surprised me, but didn't bother me. I already knew what an Aspie was, the 'quirks' persay...makes for a more interesting relationship I guess, and he's just the sweetest guy

Now things have moved on somewhat in time, things haven't really gotten a heck of a lot further. He says touch is very intimate for him, not to the extremes of reactions a few folks around here have though. And let's just say that we got things going very early on But aside from the occasional dirty stuff here and there, we're pretty much just friends.

Why does that bother me? Well...I'm a very touchy-feely, affectionate person. I know that a lot of Aspies don't like being crowded in, so I try to give him his space (btw, telling someone to 'give you space' is akin to telling them to eff off...use that terminology with caution) and keep my hands to myself generally speaking. But eh...it's killing me. I love being snuggled, holding hands, being kissed...all that soppy stuff because it just feels so darn good. Heck, even an alternative to it all would be nice, but again...aside from the occasional horny teenager reaction between us, we really are best mates...buddies.

I've tried to explain to him a few times that the reason I'm so depressed is because of this whole...'just friends' feeling I get. Not the greatest responses I get out of that Either he's confused or defensive...either way, it's a loss on my behalf.

So to get to the point. How do you nudge an Aspie, generally speaking, across that line? Yes, he's young and this is his first relationship...but frankly that's not much of an excuse, we've been going out a while now. There's that point when you're really close friends, and then there's a couple...there's that extra level of affection and love there.

Something that really gets me is the complete lack of affection in public. It's almost as if he's embarrassed. Doesn't react well at all to having his hand held, won't kiss (seems he hasn't figured that out yet, lmao, but neither have I since this is my first real-life relationship, sadly enough). Two people have seen us snuggling...my best friend and my mum That's it!

...enough of my ramblings. Opening up the floor here...what's everyone else's thoughts? What can this silly little NT do to make this relationship REALLY kick off?

Shale,
The first thing that comes to mind is, don't assume that the "just friends" feeling you're getting is correct. A hell of a lot of social communication between NT people is non-verbal, "out of band" signals — looks, tones of voice, body language. Aspies not only don't get a lot of that, but because we don't understand it — if we're aware of it at all — we don't "speak" it well, if at all, either. Sometimes we send confusing signals because we're trying to echo what we think we caught, but we don't know we're getting it wrong.

The best thing you can do is try to make sure you both really understand where you're coming from. Sit down, talk to him, lay your cards on the table, tell him exactly what you're feeling. Don't make him guess. There's too much of a chance that if you leave it to him to guess, he'll guess wrong, or won't make a move because he's not confident enough that he's figured it out right. (Yes, I'm speaking from much painful personal experience here.)

Doubt, not fear, is the mindkiller. Do what you can to eliminate the doubt. Ask him what makes him feel wanted. Don't assume that one size fits all; it doesn't.



There is a Japanese proverb: "Kiku wa ittoki no haji, kikanu wa matsudai no haji." What it basically means is that sometimes, asking what you fear may be a stupid question may make you feel stupid; but not asking that question may be a hundred times worse, because if you don't ask it, you may remain ignorant of the answer forever.

<3

Awesome insight there...I have noticed that communication tends to be almost completely verbal in AS (whereas I sometimes have trouble with that, I'm very much a non-verbal communicator...particularly facial expressions and body language).

I'm in the process of learning how to verbalise things...looks like I need to step it up a bit more It's strange though, so many things I find to be second-nature or subconscious are things I actually need to put into words, or even down in writing...it's an interesting challenge.

I guess it's the process of putting it all down in words, eh? That's what's getting me at the moment. I blanketed how I felt in an email to him, and he interpreted as a need for a more physical relationship (and he hilariously commented on the fact that we've switched places completely since I'm the one that's wanting...uh...you know...a heck of a lot more often. And he'd warned me he's the frisky kind early on! )...

Trying to describe the 'lack of that special something' is proving difficult :/

It's really different for different aspies. With me, if you hug me or something I might take it to be MORE than it really is.

This is going to sound really inappropriate and off-topic, but... do you ever watch Top Gear in New Zealand? I've just started watching it again and it is awesome!

LOL! Random, off-topic and all good I'm not a major fan of Top Gear, like it but meh...not interested in British cars or Euros...loved their test drive of the Prodrive P2…Clarkson ending up barfing because it made him dizzy. Legendary! Actually my man showed me that episode on his computer…

Ahayes…not sure but the case may be the same for my guy to a degree. At least, probably in the beginning when we’d only known each other for a short time. He was my only friend that I never hugged (heck, two of my friends would grope me [same gender as me], the other often faceplanted into my cleaveage for humour’s sake…) mainly because he would keep his distance. For that reason alone I completely and utterly missed any interest he had in me. (For reference guys, pay attention to the distance a gal keeps from you…if she shuffles on close like I did in the early days and still do now…that means HOLD MY HAND DEMMIT on many an occasion )

Maybe he is nervous about the holding hands and snuggling being a public display of affection.

I think you're right on that mark...he's definitely nervous about public displays of affection. The only problem is that it blatantly, through body language (uh oh) says to me that he's embarrassed of me, which automatically means I'm not good enough, I'm a hindrance. I know it's not the case at all but for me it's literally as clear as him saying it...so it's hard to get over.

If he were any other guy he'd realise that he's got one of the girls in the Subaru community that a majority of the other guys want some of - and that's not bragging, that's a drawback of being a girl that's SERIOUS about cars Car guys are seriously some of the horniest around! (Especially in car audio apparently...eek!) There are so few girls, competition for one is HIGH. I think he needs a bit more 'No! mine!' behaviour cuz for some reason a couple of the regulars think they have a chance... >___>;;

What I find interesting is at the local club meets, the reps are actually a married couple. Often caught being a bit cheeky in their WRX They get no s**t for it at all, so I don't see what he's so worried about. He gets trouble for being cold, actually... 'so when are you gonna kiss her?' sort of comments from the boys. Even got asked 'so do you like girls?' because they weren't sure

I think, essentially, I need to find a way to make him feel more comfortable and more in control when it comes to affection. After all, part of being in a relationship - and part of human nature - is showing off what ya got And telling potential competition to feck off

Do they have issues about 'sexual harassment' in NZ? Do mandatory 'sexual harrassment awareness conferences' at NZ schools? If you don't know what I'm talking about then this probably isn't an issue.

I'm one of the very few Aspies that actually really enjoys physical contact with women. In America as a society we are very serious (prudish) about physical contact. Aspies are much more likely than NTs to follow the rules by the letter of the law because we don't understand the implied meanings. The written rules for sexual harassment are very messy and require quite a bit of reading between the lines like 'it is sexual harrassment if you touch another person and they don't want to be touched'. How the f**k are we supposed to tell if they don't want it? Not good for aspies, and as a result, we are terrified to show anyone we like any affection because we are afraid of being accused of sexual harrassment. This happens to me all the time.

It probably means that he really likes you and is afraid of offending you if you took it in the wrong way. He doesn't want to screw it up. He probably won't do it on his own, make it damn clear to him that it's what you want.

First and foremost, YOU have to be the one who initiates the touching. That doesn't even mean you have to be the first one to touch, but if you want a hug, spread your arms out or something. If you want to be kissed make some motion with your head to that effect.

I think a lot of Aspie guys don't want to take the initiative to touch because they are afraid girls will react negatively if they are not ready. One of the reasons I like girls who are emotional and a bit touchy-feely is that they tend to express their emotions strongly. This makes it clearer when they are trying to communicate something to me.

Also, and I already know I'm not speaking for all Aspies here, in my case part of the problem is I don't think I feel the same range of emotions as most NTs, and have a hard time imagining how they feel about certain things. I perfectly well understand attraction (both to physical features and personality), lust, sexual passion, "obsession" with people you like etc., but I DON'T get most of the whole thing about closeness, attachment, and affection and possibly never fully will.

However, regardless of what I may not get, I welcome any contact from girls as long as it isn't physically uncomfortable. Whichever girls become more than friends with me will need to on some level accept their role as emotional/social "teachers". Not that they need to give lectures or anything, but they need to demonstrate what they want and explain how they feel when their body language doesn't get it across properly, just as I might have to explain a difficult academic subject to someone if he doesn't just "pick it up" as naturally as I do. I'm totally fine with having to learn that, in fact I welcome girls who are willing to see my lack of social understanding as an opportunity rather than a barrier.

I will also say (again speaking from my personal situation) there is a chance that he may NEVER fully understand the meanings you give to certain types of touch. While I really like the idea of touching a girl I feel attracted to, with me that always signifies attraction and sexual interest no matter what the form of touch. Also, while I may seem like I want to just be friends, in fact it is exactly the opposite, I want to be "lovers" (in the sense of people who feel strong attraction) and feel hardly any drive whatsoever to be friends first. Again I know I'm not speaking for all Aspies here.

Whew. I know this was another long post, but I have a lot of frustration in this area and wish more girls would want to get involved with me. I get the feeling that they, like you, interpret my failure to use common body language signals correctly as a statement of disinterest or lack of attraction.

I was at a Jewish conference about six weeks ago, where one of the things they talked about was "love communication" methods (hey, I didn't invent the term). Different people use different methods: verbal, which is words of encouragement, compliments, or even just saying "good morning"; physical, which is anything involving touching, up to and including sex; material, which is giving and receiving gifts; and active, which is doing things for your partner, such as washing dishes or helping with shopping. Each person may use any number of these methods, but more often than not, they have a preference for one or two. (For me, it's physical and material.)

Now that you've all read an excerpt from a conference seminar, let's get back to your question, Shale. From what you told us so far, you probably like the physical method. You like to hug, kiss, hold hands, and other things that people often enjoy. In my opinion, these things are important, because they are the difference between a true relationship and a platonic friendship (some friends may hug, but I digress). Your boyfriend, on the other hand, may prefer one or more of the other methods, possible one of which you don't have a preference for, possibly the verbal method. Try to pay attention to how he is around you. Maybe he's showing a lot of love, just not in a method you enjoy the most.

Thanks everyone for your responses, they've been insightful to say the very least

(LONG POST ALERT - responses at bottom)

Some interesting developments in this department. Last weekend royally sucked, that's about as much as I can say without profanity.

He decided that on Saturday, after work, he was going to try working on some LED lights for his car. I made the mistake of taking the NT interpretation of that...usually, that means 'I'll play around with it for a few hours, then I'll come see you later...probably will do the same the entire weekend'. What he really meant and neglected to tell me was 'I'll be working on this the WHOLE WEEKEND, feel free to come sit and watch if you must. What you do with the rest of your free time, iunno'. Of course, when I finally extracted this out of him, I was pretty hurt and offended. A bunch of LEDs are more important than me? Greeeeat.

Me: *sitting there on the bed for about an hour, going mad with boredom* Uh...I'm gonna go to TZ and play some games, I'll see you later.
Him: Sure thing.
Me: *...waits for the moment where he says 'see you later'...*
Him: *returns to creating stuff*
Me: ...so are you going to be going at that all night?
Him: Probably.
Me: ... *resists urge to say naughty words*
Him: I...take it you don't want me to?
Me: *goes into shock, mutters something, drives off*

It's our usual Saturday thing to go cruising, hang out, etc. He KNOWS I hate it when I have to sit and watch him do something I'm not interested in for hours, or can't be involved in. He KNOWS I hate it when he puts things before me without forewarning me properly (as in, I would have been 100% SWEET with it if he had've said 'I'm busy this entire weekend, sorry' and would have made other plans)...but he did it anyway, spectacularly. It bloody hurt. Essentially... LEDs > Me. Now, Car > Me I don't mind because I'm the same, my car 'Shale' comes first But...everything > Me?

I know he meant no harm, but this is a fine example of how the AS tendency to become fixated and obsessed with something at the time can break someone's heart into tiny little shards. I felt like scum :/

So I went out and played some games, got hit on by several people, subsequently went home in tears (why is everyone else EXCEPT my man interested in me?). Jumped onto MSN, pretty much ignored him until he had a go at me for being so quiet and emo. I turned around and had a go at him for blatantly ignoring me, brushing me aside and putting EVERYTHING ELSE first. Enter spectacular fight...and I mean wow, we were e-yelling at each other. He reckons I take up 99% of his time and leave him no time to do anything else...I see him for an hour each day I told him that I'm looking for a SERIOUS relationship, not to be a label for someone...and I was going to have me a serious relationship whether it was with him or otherwise.

Cue night of no sleep and extreme nausea from worry.

Sunday proceeded to suck as well...woke up at 5am waiting to talk to him and get things sorted out. When he finally came online he'd pretty much forgotten what'd happened the night earlier and sat there bouncing links at me for the next five hours. Got fed up, told all the guys on MSN that I was going to go to the beach...as in hint hint, SOMEONE join me. Got a few frustrated txts at some point from him, couldn't get a straight answer for why and if I could help. Finally went home and proceeded to have an absolute meltdown. He finally noticed me back online and seemed to STILL be ignoring the events of the previous night. So hell, I brought them straight back because I looked like I'd been punched in the face from so much crying and felt like absolute crap (Yeah, I'm normally staunch-as, but when depressed, I cry a lot )

For the first time in...ever...we actually had one of those deep and meaningful conversations about where we're going etc. Laid ALL my cards on the table...what I was looking for, what he does that hurts me so much and WHY, etc. Tried to get his side of the story out too...it seems he has NO CLUE what he wants out of this relationship (Hey, I have a girlfriend now! ......now what?), and has come to realise that most of his standoffish behaviour he didn't realise he was doing. He didn't even realise that he leaned away from me when I hugged him. It's not that he wanted to.

Turns out touch for him is indeed intimate, but not startling or anything. I asked him about holding hands...again, intimate, but not startling. His reactions to it the few times in the past have been completely offputting and he never does it back, so it had seemed (by normal circumstances) that he hated it...really, he doesn't apparently.

He wants me to be more assertive. If I want something, go get it. It's a total role reversal, isn't it? Normally the gal in the relationship is the one that's seduced, touched...the guy is normally the one to initiate everything. I've told him this...to the point if he wants it right there and then, he's more than welcome to go for it. He'll get a 'Y HELLO THAR! ;D' sort of response for that too...yum!

I sort of know where I stand now, though he's still fishing around trying to find where he's at. He doesn't know what he wants, and that's the biggest problem. That, and he hasn't really grasped exactly what a girlfriend is...your significant other, your lover, your confidant...an extension of you. Sure people need some room to breathe, but I've had to pretty much explain that a girlfriend isn't a friend that's a girl Which is what I've been lately.

Also, he feels like I don't trust him. Frankly, up until the second talk on Sunday night, I didn't. Guys...you need to give a REASON to trust He would disappear randomly on me, never give me proper explanations, leave me worrying about him or being angry for being ignored. Trust has to be earned. Apparently never getting angry/ranting or threatening to hurt himself etc was reason enough to trust him. Sorry again but the OPPOSITE is true. If you can't see your significant other angry, never getting things off their chest, who knows what boils below? It's a reason to be scared, not trust. Glad we sorted that one.

Unfortunately yesterday he was feeling ill and is home sick today...it's Tuesday and I haven't seen him since Saturday Fark, I miss him. Everyone including my mum wants me to just break it off, which makes it worse...meh. I want to give him this last chance to help make it work. I can't just put it in the 'too hard' basket yet!

Anyway...some responses.

GoatOnFire - there aren't such strict rules regarding sexual harrassment here. That's got a lot to do with shoddy policing, and Kiwis not really giving that much of a damn. If someone sexually harrasses a woman without violence, he's likely to just get a lot of rude language in return, possibly a punch in the face (Kiwi women are strong and violent genetically...there are an equal number of male abusing female figures as female abusing male!). It's very rare for people to react to sexual harrassment in taking someone to court...they'll probably just sort it out some other way, so it's not a big issue here. And you pretty much have to make unwanted contact anyway, for it to be even considered sexual harrassment (eg: boob grabbing, unwanted kissing).

I'm trying to make it as clear as day to my babe that if he were to go out of his way to blatantly grope me in public, I would have no problem with that. Anything less is more than welcome. He could jump on me and demand sex right there and then and I'd just take my clothes off and go for it I think he's just coming to terms with that...he can do whatever he pleases to me. Likewise, I'm coming to terms with the fact that his body language says "f**k OFF" to NTs, he actually wouldn't mind me getting a bit frisky

Biostructure - I think he's the same in that he doesn't really understand 'attachment', 'closeness', and 'affection' as well as I do. He doesn't see why it breaks my heart when he does some of the things he does, why I'm so obsessed with him, want to be around him so much, put so much importance on him. I don't know how to teach such things either, it may be one of those 'you have it or you don't' kind of things.

It's interesting, having to be the one that initiates all contact. And nowadays I mean ALL. It makes me look and feel like a needy, clingy b***h Hopefully with time he'll learn how to surprise me with a bit of random contact himself...nothing would turn me on more (Same for a lot of girls...once you know them well enough as more than friends, surprise her with some random affection. She'll feel like a million dollars)

It's a catch-22 for most Aspie guys by the look of it. Risk showing your lust and desire to someone and get kicked in the nuts, or at least rejected. But hide all of it, and scare away potential girlfriends. It's the same battle for most guys, but they have the advantage of being able to read (fairly) accurately when's a good time for which behaviour. It's learning to read the signs. And learning to be more in control of your body language. It comes naturally to us NTs, we're just reading off that little book in our heads. We can both project it and interpret it in ways people generally understand. Unfortunately because most Aspie guys seem to be guesstimating or running on autopilot with such things, it's usually giving off entirely the wrong message After all, actual words you say count to 7% of the total message output

And suffice it to say, with such figures, it is often EXTREMELY hard for us to take the meaning of the words that were said as they were intended, because the other 93% of what you just said contradicts the words... (Eg: When he said "I take it you don't want me to" in reference to ignoring me all night...uh...the words said what they mean but the tone in the voice, the body language, and the current context ACTUALLY said "Oh for f***'s sake, stop being so goddamn clingy and leave me alone!" Turns out he didn't mean that, but that's why I went into shock...that's what I heard).

Aspie1 - I've learned about these methods of showing love before, back in school for some reason...they're always on my mind. I have yet to figure out what exactly his is...possibly active, doing favours. Possibly giving gifts. He does a bit of both, when the mood takes him. Suffice it to say he's terrible at showing love - a product of never being shown any before I came along I'm DEFINITELY a physical person...hell, all of my friends hug me. In fact, my female mafia (lmao, girl squad...we're all such good friends we ARE a mafia) are known to grope me, hardout. I love it XD They grope me more than he does! I also love time...if I currently hate you I'll spend no time with you...if I love you, I'll be desperate to spend a bit more time with you. Part of the communication breakdown (aside from the fact that he really doens't communicate anyway) is the fact that he doesn't really do either of those...

As far as his go...I do some things for him, but he's so independant it doesn't leave much for me to do Up until recently I was pretty much sugarmummy too, always buying him little things Usually food, lmfao.




Yeah. Things are getting interesting now. It was a hair's breadth from being totally called off for a while there, but it's back on now that we've actually managed to sit down and talk about all of this...

It seems here that the main issue is an understanding of the type of relationship you want. You say you see him an hour every day, and that's barely enough for you. You also emphasize that having a serious as opposed to a casual relationship is more important to you than whether the relationship is with him (am I getting this correct?).

I will say that if I'm any indication, the whole idea that a sexual relationship (or anything other than being just friends) requires the people to spend large amounts of time together doesn't make the intuitive sense it seems to make for a lot of people. Of course one doesn't imply the other for every person, but for a substantial fraction of the population it obviously does. That may also be one of those things that you either get or you don't.

I could see that for Aspies, due to the difficulty in getting interest from girls at all, it may make sense to settle for a serious relationship if that's all they can manage to get someone interested in, even though at that point in their life they may want something less serious. Maybe if he were introduced to some girl who wanted casual flings he would switch over without hesitation. Do you know if he knows any such girls? Note that this is all a hypothetical idea, and I'm not trying to disappoint you by suggesting that he is settling in this manner--I'm just saying I could see myself doing such a thing if that was the only way I could get female attention. In fact, he (like myself) may not even know what a serious relationship typically entails, much less be able to judge who wants one.

Also, no matter what his level of interest in you, I doubt you will find satisfaction trying to compete with his non-human obsessions. You can certainly provide things that these cannot, but the reverse is true as well. It seems that since you have a strong interest in your car you may be able to understand this.

I found myself getting a little turned on from reading this...lol. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that you can get your boyfriend to be more touchy-feely by telling him the same thing you told all of us. After all, most guys get turned on by seeing girl-on-girl action, or even from simply picturing it in their minds; otherwise Girls Gone Wild wouldn't be so popular. So try to turn him on more, at least by telling him the stories about you and your friends' groping sessions (I'm exaggerating here, but you get my point). It probably sounds a little silly, or maybe even downright ridiculous, but I'm sure it'll turn him on. And that should make him get more physical with you, even non-sexually, like a hug or something. Good luck with everything.

By the way, I got this idea from a story a girl I used to date told me; it was about how she and her friends went skinny dipping. I responded by teasing her that she was trying to get me into bed, even though she might have been simply sharing a memory.

Biostructure - That's a huge part of the problem really, I'm the typical young NT woman in that I want the job, the car, the money, and the romance. Although that being said, I'm a bit of a tomboy so the whole flowers/gifts/walks on the beach/etc thing doesn't really turn me on. The seriousness of a relationship is what I'm after though, intimacy and dedication...the sort of thing the average adult is after.

I know so far he hasn't been able to provide it...I haven't been able to verbalise it clearly enough. That's also a huge part of the problem...we NTs do everything on instinct. It's difficult for us to verbalise why things are the way they are in society and why we do the silly things we do...it's all autopilot. So why I want these things I do, and why it hurts when I don't get them...I've had to spend a lot of time really thinking about it and breaking it down so it can be essentially put on paper. I am getting better, but it's something I'll have to work on to get this relationship to really take off.

Being able to write down the nuances of NT behaviour may be beneficial to people on this forum too...so I'd better start focussing on it.

I would love to spend more time with him, but it's knowing WHAT to do with that time. He's also very popular on the forums (ironically not on this one) so he devotes a lot of time to checking messages...much like me. We also work full time...both buggered at the end of the day, and spend the weekends catching up. For a while there almost all of our time was spent out cruising the streets in one of the cars...looks like it might be more focussed on trying to find somewhere private...turns out he's really into that side of things after all

I think he's the very loyal kind, btw. He's extremely defensive of me (boy he was NOT impressed when he found out that other guys were hitting on me), and is rather unimpressed about another girl that keeps on making moves on him. She's a bit of a stalker though...meh.

As for non-human obsessions...yep, no point in really competing with them. But he does now know that he can't push me aside in favour of them without SERIOUS consequences...things don't fight back, people do. It's a good thing we have a lot of common interests...we're both known for having our heads under our bonnets


Aspie1 - LOL. Now that was some extremely relevant left-field insight that will pretty much work. Omg. XD Actually we talked along those lines before. I'm bi, actually...so that makes things a whole lot more interesting. We've talked about inviting an extra along sometime...no gender preference, lmao...so there may be some girl-on-girl action in the future I'm sure no one will mind

Part of our talk over the weekend was about things that turn us on...got some interesting insight out of that one too. It's the first time I've really got right under his skin and known a few of his deeper secrets - funnily enough, it makes me trust him more. He knows he can confide in me, tell me random things like that...

Hahaha you know the female mafia is dangerous We could kill you with delight XD (just wait till you realise that we ALL play Dance Dance Revolution, on heavy, insane amounts of jumping abound!)

I don't really care for tomboys at this point, and additionally it seems you lack the only advantage I see in them, namely that they on average tend to be more accepting of casual sex. It's not that there is something "wrong" with you, it's just you're clearly not my type.



Out of curiosity, what percentage of adults do you think want this seriousness, and at what age (in your experience) does the typical woman start wanting this? Also, are there any good NT signals to look for to gauge whether a girl wants a serious relationship or is open to something more casual?

In any case, I think maybe you should consider if he wants the same level of seriousness, and if not, maybe look for other options. As I said, do you know if he has opportunity to meet others who might be interested in more casual relationships? Also, what ages are the two of you (about)?




If you don't know what to do with the time, why is it important to spend time together? Is there some kind of NT code rule that says that if you don't spend enough time together, you can't like each other much?



Again I may be reading too much of myself into this, but I don't know if him being upset when other guys hit on you is due to being loyal. It possibly (just a guess) could have more to do with him doubting whether he's "good enough" for you to let him keep seeing you even when you have other options. I know I have gotten that way due to my lack of success with girls.

As for the other girl: What is she like? Does she seem like she's looking for the same type of relationship as you? Do you get the idea she would be his type, but is ignoring her because you're around?



I agree that he should let you know before hand if he's going to be working on stuff for his car so you don't have to wait around for him. That's just a considerate thing to do.