How to be affectionate toward an Aspie?

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Shale
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27 Feb 2007, 10:00 pm

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I don't really care for tomboys at this point, and additionally it seems you lack the only advantage I see in them, namely that they on average tend to be more accepting of casual sex. It's not that there is something "wrong" with you, it's just you're clearly not my type.


Well that's alright then...I'm kinda taken, aren't I? ;D I'm not the near-crossdressing type, I'm always on the slightly more feminine side, but will never wear skirts, dresses or lace/frills. Let alone pink! Look at my car and that pretty much sums me up :)

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Out of curiosity, what percentage of adults do you think want this seriousness, and at what age (in your experience) does the typical woman start wanting this? Also, are there any good NT signals to look for to gauge whether a girl wants a serious relationship or is open to something more casual?

In any case, I think maybe you should consider if he wants the same level of seriousness, and if not, maybe look for other options. As I said, do you know if he has opportunity to meet others who might be interested in more casual relationships? Also, what ages are the two of you (about)?


To answer that question - let's say most of my female mafia friends are in long-term relationships already, and we're all between 18 and 22. One of them has been with her boyfriend for well over 2 years now, not bad for a 20 year old. The only one that hasn't was fooling around with her ex, fell pregnant, had the baby and is now a solo mum because the guy can't handle the pressure. I'm 20 myself, but my man's a mere 17 :lol: Yes, I'm a sugarmommy... :lol: But in typical AS style, he has a level of maturity that I like (and a level of immaturity that drives me insane)...

You can gauge what a girl is after when you spend more time with her, by how she treats you and what she does with you. Is it romantic dinners, walks on the beach, talk about children, weddings? Does she take you to meet her parents formally, or go to meet yours? Or is it all movies, games, hanging out? Talk of interests or future? Does she want all of your time, or is she more interested in hanging around with her girlfriends? Pay attention to how she reacts to different advances. Unfortunately the hardest way to get to know what a girl wants is to make her do all the work :? Something it seems Aspie guys are REALLY good at by nature.

Generally speaking, girls tend to be more serious about relationships. If she finds out that you're more interested in a casual relationship whilst she's actually taking it seriously, she will probably be pretty damn vengeful. Girls can be vicious, sadistic creatures when they feel they've been betrayed. So if you're more the casual relationship kind...be very careful. Put those cards on the table very early on.

Quote:
If you don't know what to do with the time, why is it important to spend time together? Is there some kind of NT code rule that says that if you don't spend enough time together, you can't like each other much?


Actually, there IS an NT thing that if you don't spend enough time together, you drift apart. Hard and fast fact...with the exception possibly of parents when you go and live overseas. Friends and couples WILL drift apart and go back to being mere aquaintences given enough time apart - as little as 6 months even. It's the way we are. Our love of someone is not judged upon how many similar interests we have, but how many points we've racked up essentially. Spending time and having fun with people builds up points...not doing so leaks them back down again. Of course, a fight takes a huge chunk out of the points especially if no resolution is made. So if you and I didn't see each other on WP for 6 months or so, I may not even remember who you are...though you may remember me :/

Hence me saying, yes...spending time is VERY important for me. That's how my last relationship died...the guy ignored me for weeks on end...good way to drain whatever points you had. :/

Quote:
Again I may be reading too much of myself into this, but I don't know if him being upset when other guys hit on you is due to being loyal. It possibly (just a guess) could have more to do with him doubting whether he's "good enough" for you to let him keep seeing you even when you have other options. I know I have gotten that way due to my lack of success with girls.

As for the other girl: What is she like? Does she seem like she's looking for the same type of relationship as you? Do you get the idea she would be his type, but is ignoring her because you're around?


He has actually said something along those lines. That he can't decide whether he's angry for other guys hitting on his girl, or whether he's sad because he's holding me back. It may be part of the reason why he's suddenly stepped up the game and made an actual effort to maintain this relationship (because that's hugely important in the NT world...maintenance. You maintain a relationship like you do a car...if you just leave it, it'll rust away. If you drive it to death without servicing, it'll eventually go wrong and die). Frankly if he's ready to provide some of what the others would, I'd not even consider them :)

This other girl...she's quite vindictive. She asked him 'Has that fat b***h dumped you yet?'...she's stalked him...she's been rude to him in the past...he was interested in her a while ago but she rejected him repeatedly. Now he doesn't like her. They don't have anything in common anyway...so I'm not at all scared. She pisses him off. That, and she's the girlfriend of a guy that manipulates him terribly, and he's since cut off ties with the jerk. Methinks she's realised that he IS worthy of a girlfriend and is suddenly jealous. I mean hell, he's a VERY good-looking guy :)



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28 Feb 2007, 12:57 am

Shale wrote:
Quote:
I don't really care for tomboys at this point, and additionally it seems you lack the only advantage I see in them, namely that they on average tend to be more accepting of casual sex. It's not that there is something "wrong" with you, it's just you're clearly not my type.


Well that's alright then...I'm kinda taken, aren't I? ;D I'm not the near-crossdressing type, I'm always on the slightly more feminine side, but will never wear skirts, dresses or lace/frills. Let alone pink! Look at my car and that pretty much sums me up :)


I mean personality- and interest-wise, in addition to body and face type, not style of dress.

Shale wrote:
Quote:
Out of curiosity, what percentage of adults do you think want this seriousness, and at what age (in your experience) does the typical woman start wanting this? Also, are there any good NT signals to look for to gauge whether a girl wants a serious relationship or is open to something more casual?

In any case, I think maybe you should consider if he wants the same level of seriousness, and if not, maybe look for other options. As I said, do you know if he has opportunity to meet others who might be interested in more casual relationships? Also, what ages are the two of you (about)?


To answer that question - let's say most of my female mafia friends are in long-term relationships already, and we're all between 18 and 22. One of them has been with her boyfriend for well over 2 years now, not bad for a 20 year old. The only one that hasn't was fooling around with her ex, fell pregnant, had the baby and is now a solo mum because the guy can't handle the pressure. I'm 20 myself, but my man's a mere 17 :lol: Yes, I'm a sugarmommy... :lol: But in typical AS style, he has a level of maturity that I like (and a level of immaturity that drives me insane)...


This is quite different from what I've heard from friends around here. They all assure me that lots of girls in their late teens and early 20s don't want a long-term relationship yet, they're just looking to have fun. Maybe it's a cultural difference (I hear you're not from the US).

Shale wrote:
You can gauge what a girl is after when you spend more time with her, by how she treats you and what she does with you. Is it romantic dinners, walks on the beach, talk about children, weddings?


I doubt many of the girls I run into will start talking about children and weddings already. Maybe dinners and walks on the beach, but can't people do that for fun also? Is there another mysterious NT rule that says "a dinner and walk along the beach means this relationship has to last for a long time"?

Shale wrote:

Does she take you to meet her parents formally, or go to meet yours? Or is it all movies, games, hanging out? Talk of interests or future? Does she want all of your time, or is she more interested in hanging around with her girlfriends? Pay attention to how she reacts to different advances. Unfortunately the hardest way to get to know what a girl wants is to make her do all the work :? Something it seems Aspie guys are REALLY good at by nature.


I think it's that we don't have the instinct to know what kinds of relationships there are. It seems that among NTs there are a few kind of relationship "templates" that are quite common, and while there are people whose ways of dealing with the opposite sex break these molds, the molds are assumed by default. I think these molds or templates have kind of evolved because they suit the NT emotional psychology, which I don't share, and so I envision a quite different set of default possibilities. Maybe if I actually were involved in a relationship my ideas would converge more toward the mainstream, but at least my current "fantasies" don't seem in accord with the general population's.

I feel I could write an entire article (or even a short book!) on my perception of this, so I'm deciding between starting an entirely new thread or writing for the "articles" section of WP. The thread format would allow others to respond and give their input, but lots of people don't like to read long posts. The article format would eliminate the length concern, but it would only be speaking for one person because I couldn't get any feedback.

Shale wrote:
Generally speaking, girls tend to be more serious about relationships. If she finds out that you're more interested in a casual relationship whilst she's actually taking it seriously, she will probably be pretty damn vengeful. Girls can be vicious, sadistic creatures when they feel they've been betrayed. So if you're more the casual relationship kind...be very careful. Put those cards on the table very early on.


Vengeful in what way?

Shale wrote:
Quote:
If you don't know what to do with the time, why is it important to spend time together? Is there some kind of NT code rule that says that if you don't spend enough time together, you can't like each other much?


Actually, there IS an NT thing that if you don't spend enough time together, you drift apart. Hard and fast fact...with the exception possibly of parents when you go and live overseas. Friends and couples WILL drift apart and go back to being mere aquaintences given enough time apart - as little as 6 months even. It's the way we are. Our love of someone is not judged upon how many similar interests we have, but how many points we've racked up essentially. Spending time and having fun with people builds up points...not doing so leaks them back down again. Of course, a fight takes a huge chunk out of the points especially if no resolution is made. So if you and I didn't see each other on WP for 6 months or so, I may not even remember who you are...though you may remember me :/

Hence me saying, yes...spending time is VERY important for me. That's how my last relationship died...the guy ignored me for weeks on end...good way to drain whatever points you had. :/


How about touching, kissing, and sex? Together with the occasional conversation to maintain open communication and allow us to discover each other, those provide all the "points" I need.


Shale wrote:
Quote:
Again I may be reading too much of myself into this, but I don't know if him being upset when other guys hit on you is due to being loyal. It possibly (just a guess) could have more to do with him doubting whether he's "good enough" for you to let him keep seeing you even when you have other options. I know I have gotten that way due to my lack of success with girls.

As for the other girl: What is she like? Does she seem like she's looking for the same type of relationship as you? Do you get the idea she would be his type, but is ignoring her because you're around?


He has actually said something along those lines. That he can't decide whether he's angry for other guys hitting on his girl, or whether he's sad because he's holding me back. It may be part of the reason why he's suddenly stepped up the game and made an actual effort to maintain this relationship (because that's hugely important in the NT world...maintenance. You maintain a relationship like you do a car...if you just leave it, it'll rust away. If you drive it to death without servicing, it'll eventually go wrong and die). Frankly if he's ready to provide some of what the others would, I'd not even consider them :)

This other girl...she's quite vindictive. She asked him 'Has that fat b***h dumped you yet?'...she's stalked him...she's been rude to him in the past...he was interested in her a while ago but she rejected him repeatedly. Now he doesn't like her. They don't have anything in common anyway...so I'm not at all scared. She pisses him off. That, and she's the girlfriend of a guy that manipulates him terribly, and he's since cut off ties with the jerk. Methinks she's realised that he IS worthy of a girlfriend and is suddenly jealous. I mean hell, he's a VERY good-looking guy :)


You say she's "vindictive"--has he done something to her in the past?

In response to the comment "they don't have anything in common anyway...so I'm not at all scared". Let me once again (it seems like the 5 millionth time, not with you but with lots of people) try to clue you in on something that seems about as difficult to comprehend for some people as theoretical quantum mechanics: NOT EVERY GUY DETERMINES HIS ATTRACTION TO A GIRL BY HOW MUCH THEY HAVE IN COMMON! Say that when you get up in the morning, record it as an MP3 and listen to it while working on your car, whatever. A guy and a girl can seem like total opposites and there can be an attraction there. There are a tons of girls I have a lot in common with that I would pass up in a second for ones who are more opposite to me. While there needs to be something in common, that's true for lots of people who seem very different to an outside observer. I also think that the amount of things in common is a lot more a factor if you're looking for a long-term relationship than a short-term one.



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01 Mar 2007, 1:06 am

That's a lot to reply to so...I'm going to lazy out XD I think you're reading into the situation completely differently at this point. Especially in regards to this girl... I should probably mention that he repeatedly says personality is the most important thing to him. I even asked him 'Okay, ass or boobs?' and his reply was 'Neither...personality'. Interests and personality are VERY important to him.

Besides, that girl is as chubby as I am apparently, possibly moreso :3 (And for the record I don't look the part of a tomboy physically. I have a baby-face, long black hair and hourglass curves...I look like a girly-girl. Which is why the car guys are so confused when I rock on up to the club meets in jeans and a hoodie and start talking about the intake, headers and exhaust work I have planned for the HX, along with the impending engine rebould :lol: The tomboyish part of me is the style of dress and the interests - I'm a gamer, a racer, the one that'll happily wrestle you...)

I think there is a significant cultural difference in NZ actually. The younger ones will fool around with various people, though usually the preps amongst them will continue doing that well towards 30. The rest of us take pride in being in long, stable relationships generally...they're 'casual' in the sense that they're laid-back and happy relationships, but 'serious' in that unless it's a blatantly open relationship, it's not a 'friends-only' sort of connection bewteen two people. They are lovers, partners... perhaps this is attributed to the large number of people who stay in long-term relationships (as in 10+ years, etc, for example) instead of marrying...Kiwis seem to view adulthood as a bigger step, looking at the responses here.

Dinners, walks on beach. A small example of a level of dedication, rather than a mere desire to have fun and enjoy someone's company. There's a bond that runs much deeper than that if you find 'the right one'. Marriage? Bro. My mate with the baby was engaged before the guy lost his head. The other two main members of my female mafia...they talk about such silly things too, Jen's even talked about kids with her man. I've brushed over that topic before (mainly because I help publish the Essential Wedding guide here), mentioning that I would want the wedding cars to be GC8 STis with whomever I married. Lol. He didn't disagree...

We NTs read and speak between the lines almost exclusively. Even if it's cold hard facts, chances are we're actually saying something else at the same time. Things we do are the same...communication runs far deeper than mere words. And yes, the relationship 'templates' as you put it have evolved in human society for thousands of years...not a lot that can be done to change them. It's best to verbalise what you're looking at in a relationship from early on, particularly if you find an NT missus...we're horribly confused (and often hurt) if we don't get the signals we're hoping for or expecting.

As for girls being vengeful and vindictive...well! Saw an interesting article on TV yesterday when I went home for lunch...this woman had been cheated on, guy said 'well I never said I was after a serious relationship anyway'...this girl set about destroying ever other relationship he had, making him look like an idiot in front of these women, even breaking into his house. Some women will just backstab. And you know what other women are like. No news spreads like bad news, and the best kind of bad news is gossip. You can expect to have to move to a different city to ever get laid again if you stick your foot far enough in it :lol:

And the 'points' system...the occasional conversation, a bit of sex here and there...that may be enough for you but the girl you're involved with will probably want you as a part time fling in which case, and find someone else that will be able to fulfil more of her needs. Another point to make is that almost every NT woman has a degree of lack of self-assuredness, insecurity. If you ignore her, brush her aside, generally prefer to do other things than spend a good portion of your time with her, she's likely to draw some morbid conclusions about why. Like me...wondering if he actually does love me at all. Others may suspect another woman's involvement! Time = extremely important.



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01 Mar 2007, 11:37 pm

Shale wrote:
I think you're reading into the situation completely differently at this point. Especially in regards to this girl... I should probably mention that he repeatedly says personality is the most important thing to him. I even asked him 'Okay, ass or boobs?' and his reply was 'Neither...personality'. Interests and personality are VERY important to him.


Valuing interests and personality doesn't necessarily mean THE SAME interests and personality, at least in my case it doesn't. I care about interests/personality too--I'm not purely into looks even though I place quite some emphasis on it like most guys.

Shale wrote:
Besides, that girl...etc.


OK, you don't need to prove your tomboyishness (or lack thereof). We've already established that you're taken, live on a different continent, and on top of that your interests and personality mean you probably aren't my type. I didn't mean to challenge your perception of yourself, I was just stating personal preferences.

Shale wrote:
The rest of us take pride in being in long, stable relationships generally...they're 'casual' in the sense that they're laid-back and happy relationships, but 'serious' in that unless it's a blatantly open relationship, it's not a 'friends-only' sort of connection bewteen two people. They are lovers, partners... perhaps this is attributed to the large number of people who stay in long-term relationships (as in 10+ years, etc, for example) instead of marrying...Kiwis seem to view adulthood as a bigger step, looking at the responses here.


I was not saying that casual relationships are friends-only, in fact I think that a lot of long-term relationships are more friend-like than shorter-term ones, as they are less based on the excitement, passion, and novelty of being together. And long-term relationships instead of marrying? I see marriage as the ultimate in long-term relationships.

Shale wrote:
We NTs read and speak between the lines almost exclusively. Even if it's cold hard facts, chances are we're actually saying something else at the same time.


As you probably well know, that's the problem for us with AS/autism--you need to speak differently to us if you want us to understand.

Shale wrote:
Things we do are the same...communication runs far deeper than mere words. And yes, the relationship 'templates' as you put it have evolved in human society for thousands of years...not a lot that can be done to change them.


It's not that nothing can be done to change them, people can do whatever they want as far as relationships (assuming both people are of sufficient age of course). I see it as, the majority of people stick to the "templates" because these people feel those types of relationships match their innate tendencies. Maybe it's just my hyper-dreamy and socially indifferent Aspie mind speaking here, but I think most of us in our teenage/adolescent years develop a set of imagined idealistic "dream scenarios" with the opposite sex that we are driven toward, and if (as in my case) these don't match the templates, people are apt to break the mold, assuming the drive to fulfill these dreams is strong (which in many cases it is).

I am currently writing an essay to this effect that I will submit to the "writings" section of WP sometime. I'm hope my writing style will be entertaining (at least as entertaining as I can be).

Shale wrote:
It's best to verbalise what you're looking at in a relationship from early on, particularly if you find an NT missus...we're horribly confused (and often hurt) if we don't get the signals we're hoping for or expecting.


I figured that it is good to be as straightforward as possible, though I sense it's not good to be TOO forward either. And by the way (not to criticize you) I really dislike that word "missus". It sounds so ugly for whatever reason.

Shale wrote:
And the 'points' system...the occasional conversation, a bit of sex here and there...that may be enough for you but the girl you're involved with will probably want you as a part time fling in which case, and find someone else that will be able to fulfil more of her needs. Another point to make is that almost every NT woman has a degree of lack of self-assuredness, insecurity. If you ignore her, brush her aside, generally prefer to do other things than spend a good portion of your time with her, she's likely to draw some morbid conclusions about why. Like me...wondering if he actually does love me at all. Others may suspect another woman's involvement! Time = extremely important.


My way of looking at it is this: as long as I'm getting what I want (attraction, passionate times together, physical contact) when I'm with her, why do I care what she uses the other 90%, or 95%, or whatever of her time for? It may make an interesting conversation to ask her about it, but as long as my needs are met I'm not concerned.



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02 Mar 2007, 10:49 pm

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as long as my needs are met I'm not concerned.


I'd fix that very, very quickly, if I were you and had aspirations of marriage someday.

You should at LEAST consider what the other person is doing with their time, even if it's as minimal as 'I wonder if they're wondering what I'm doing'. There's an entire existence outside yours :?

It's hard to speak explicitly all the time...normally we NEVER speak like that. But those of us that know Aspies definitely make about as big an effort as we can muster. Those of us that love an Aspie in some way make efforts to cater for AS, basically. But sometimes...it can't hurt to cater to the NT you love too, even just a little bit :? Give a little get a little, as they say :lol:

Ultimately you have to remember - there are two people in a relationship. You enter into one because you want to think about that special someone. Sure, they're there to fulfil your needs. But don't forget...you're there to fulfil THEIR needs too. You have to give them a reason to be with you, and not the hot sexy guy down the street that showers his girlfriends in gifts and affection and is a demon in the sack :P



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02 Mar 2007, 11:04 pm

Shale wrote:
We NTs read and speak between the lines almost exclusively. Even if it's cold hard facts, chances are we're actually saying something else at the same time. Things we do are the same...communication runs far deeper than mere words. And yes, the relationship 'templates' as you put it have evolved in human society for thousands of years...not a lot that can be done to change them. It's best to verbalise what you're looking at in a relationship from early on, particularly if you find an NT missus...we're horribly confused (and often hurt) if we don't get the signals we're hoping for or expecting.



Shale,

If you want to have a relationship with an Aspie now or at any other time, you are going to have to toss that. No Aspie will ever get what's between the lines so it will be ignored because it will not even register. Our brains simply can't do it so it is nothing but a waste of your time and emotion. As you said, you'll be horribly hurt and confused and that won't change because we simply don't get it.

Communication for us does not run deeper than words and that never changes no matter how much we care about someone. Caring does not rewire our brains. What you will have to do, if you want to have a relationship with an Aspie, is just state exactly what you mean. Don't count on your eyes, your face or your body to get it across. Don't think you can say one thing and mean another. Don't ever expect him to read between the lines. You'll frustrate him and end up hurt over and over. Just say exactly what you think. It's the only way to communicate with us and you'll save both of you alot of grief and heartache.

Hope that helps.

Zanne



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02 Mar 2007, 11:28 pm

I'm well aware of the fact that he misses it most of the time (but to his credit he actually DOES catch at least half of everything I say that's not straight-forward...perhaps he's learned how to do it, but not everything I say is something he takes literally. Excuse teh bad england there.)...but meh. I try.

It's difficult though, and very tiring. Much like Aspies struggle with the NT lack of directness and literal terminology, we really REALLY struggle putting things as they are. It's equally as difficult I'd say...even moreso than speaking a different language. You adapt, but only so far.

Actually of the Aspies I know irl (not many, but a handful) most of them seem to be able to understand a good portion of the read-between-the-lines communication...probably learned by wrote for the most part, but generally speaking the ones I have met IRL seem to handle it pretty well.

Communication is for us just as much as you in-built though. If you say 'I need some space', to an NT that will ALWAYS mean 'Feck off' no matter how many times you re-iterate that you ACTUALLY mean that you just want some time alone for the sake of time alone. To us that will always and forever ACTUALLY mean 'I don't want your company, go jump in a lake'. Just like no matter how many times I tell the people at the office that the 'blue' ink cartridge for the fax is CYAN...they will always see it as blue :? By those examples - we may say things that y'all will miss or misunderstand, but things you say will always bear double or alternative meanings for us.

I guess it comes down to compromise. One person can't do all the bending. And to my man's credit, I think we're finally finding a happy medium now that he's showing a little more interest and dedication (seems he just didn't know how, and what was appropriate) and I'm trying even harder to communicate and read in the Aspie language. He does a jolly good job of speaking NT when he has to, mind you :lol:



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03 Mar 2007, 4:49 am

Shale wrote:
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as long as my needs are met I'm not concerned.


I'd fix that very, very quickly, if I were you and had aspirations of marriage someday.

You should at LEAST consider what the other person is doing with their time, even if it's as minimal as 'I wonder if they're wondering what I'm doing'. There's an entire existence outside yours :?


I don't currently have aspirations of marriage. Personally, I don't see what's so great about it. As of now, all I want is some excitement, getting to know someone who sees the world differently from me, and some "physical activity"--both sexual and otherwise touching. I know some people are concerned about their partner's whereabouts at all times, fear that they are seeing another woman/man (again I fail to see why that would be the end of the world), get really clingy, etc. I don't think like that, and frankly I see it as a positive thing to not be so paranoid and intrusive. It's something else if a person has something going on in her personal life (or if a guy friend has something in his personal life) that she WANTS to talk to me about because she finds it interesting, wants advice, etc. I know there's an entire existence outside mine, it's just that I don't see why I have to fixate on it. Maybe once I actually get involved with a girl my feelings will change.

Shale wrote:
It's hard to speak explicitly all the time...normally we NEVER speak like that. But those of us that know Aspies definitely make about as big an effort as we can muster. Those of us that love an Aspie in some way make efforts to cater for AS, basically. But sometimes...it can't hurt to cater to the NT you love too, even just a little bit :? Give a little get a little, as they say :lol:


We will try to understand you, but you should be aware that if we misunderstand, it doesn't mean we hate you or are trying to be mean.

Shale wrote:
Ultimately you have to remember - there are two people in a relationship. You enter into one because you want to think about that special someone. Sure, they're there to fulfil your needs. But don't forget...you're there to fulfil THEIR needs too. You have to give them a reason to be with you, and not the hot sexy guy down the street that showers his girlfriends in gifts and affection and is a demon in the sack :P


Well, ultimately I think any girl who chooses to be with me needs to value my intellectual talent, creative problem solving ability, willingness to see the world through a unique set of eyes no matter what other people want me to see, etc. Those are truly rare and remarkable things that not just any guy can correctly claim to have. And who says just because you find the social world confusing you can't learn to be good in bed? I don't think these abilities are related. In any case, the girl also has the option of being with me AND the guy down the street at the same time :-) (and no, I don't mean literally the three of us being together in the same room, I mean her seeing both within the same time frame).



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03 Mar 2007, 10:41 am

The worst thing someone can do with many high-functioning aspie males is to "play hard to get" - most of us will probably take it literally and simply go off and look elsewhere. Be very clear; like -- "I really like you, and I'd like to be your girlfriend". If that doesn't work, simply pouncing (at a suitable moment) is good :lol: just so long as he's not one of the few aspies who have issues with extreme touch-sensitivity.



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03 Mar 2007, 3:28 pm

Shale wrote:
I'm well aware of the fact that he misses it most of the time (but to his credit he actually DOES catch at least half of everything I say that's not straight-forward...perhaps he's learned how to do it, but not everything I say is something he takes literally. Excuse teh bad england there.)...but meh. I try.

It's difficult though, and very tiring. Much like Aspies struggle with the NT lack of directness and literal terminology, we really REALLY struggle putting things as they are. It's equally as difficult I'd say...even moreso than speaking a different language. You adapt, but only so far.

Actually of the Aspies I know irl (not many, but a handful) most of them seem to be able to understand a good portion of the read-between-the-lines communication...probably learned by wrote for the most part, but generally speaking the ones I have met IRL seem to handle it pretty well.

Communication is for us just as much as you in-built though. If you say 'I need some space', to an NT that will ALWAYS mean 'Feck off' no matter how many times you re-iterate that you ACTUALLY mean that you just want some time alone for the sake of time alone. To us that will always and forever ACTUALLY mean 'I don't want your company, go jump in a lake'. Just like no matter how many times I tell the people at the office that the 'blue' ink cartridge for the fax is CYAN...they will always see it as blue :? By those examples - we may say things that y'all will miss or misunderstand, but things you say will always bear double or alternative meanings for us.

I guess it comes down to compromise. One person can't do all the bending. And to my man's credit, I think we're finally finding a happy medium now that he's showing a little more interest and dedication (seems he just didn't know how, and what was appropriate) and I'm trying even harder to communicate and read in the Aspie language. He does a jolly good job of speaking NT when he has to, mind you :lol:


I'm happy for you if you find Aspies who can read between the lines (and yes, we do all have different abilties) but it is not like learning a language when we can't. We simply can't. If the wiring is broken or missing, that's that. Think of your car. You would have to replace it. So, that won't be solved (for the ones who can't) until they figure out how to get in there and rewire the brain.

And actually my NT husband never thinks I mean for him to Feck off (cute term) if I want to be alone. He doesn't read anything into what I say beyond what I say and never did long before we knew about this (some 26+ years). He just always told me I was "wet behind the ears socially" or "just came out of the cabbage patch socially." He's actually the one who reads people for me because he knows I can't do it. He also tells me all the subtext to conversations when he's around because he knows I never get that either. When I'm away from him, I just flat don't get it. I've had all kinds of training and still couldn't read eyes or between the lines if I had to do it to save my own life. I need someone to rewire my car, er I mean brain. LOL So, he just says exactly what he means and we do fine. I think that's easier for NT guys than NT women to be honest. I also think it helps us that we are both extremely cerebral because it gives us common ground, the way you two both have cars.

It's a difficult thing being friends with Mr. Spock. It's even harder to be married to a Mr. Spock! LOL



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03 Mar 2007, 6:45 pm

ZanneMarie - LOL. You have a huge advantage with that 26+ years there :lol: After so long, you DO get to know what alone time actually means for each person ;) Family and very long-term relationships will do that though, you get to know a person well enough to know EXACTLY what they mean by different things.

Reading between the lines - yeah, if you're not wired to be able to do that then learning by rote is about as good as it'll get. One of my mates is like that - she gets a little of the social world's underground communication, and for the rest of the time it's 'I don't get it'. I think she's the most distinct out of the group I know though, so most of what she gets of the subtle stuff has been learned I'd imagine. Not entirely sure, she pulls it off remarkably well :lol:

It's definitely easier for any guy to flat-out say what they mean, bluntness is something they're well-equipped for...it's harder for us girls, as we are the MASTERS of saying things in different ways. Part of our wiring, I'd say. We CAN learn to just be bloody explicit for a change, but it's hard :lol:

I'm pretty proud of my guy though, he's getting better at judging my moods without me having to tell him what I'm thinking/feeling etc. Admittedly I'm trying to communicate it better. But he actually catches when I'm pissed off or bored about half the time now. Lmao! According to him though, the best way for me to communicate when I want...uh...a little action...is to flat-out be a frisky lil sh!t. And I haven't quite worked up the courage to just tackle him out of the blue yet :lol: :?

I sorta see that wiring issue to be similar to cars too - nice analogies you'd made there. Reading between the lines - likened to getting the 14-second quarter mile in an Impreza. You have to be going close to 200km/h over the line to get 400m in 14 seconds :shock: A stock Impreza will do it in 17 seconds+. To get it up to WRX standards, you have to do it the hard way (thousands of dollars of upgrades, lots of car surgery and tuning), or the easy way (add a turbo...or exchange for an STi red top motor). It's not even possible to get the 14 seconds on some cars without the turbo, no matter how much you tune etc...like for some Aspies no amount of training will let them decipher that wretched silent language. Some though...you can get 'em up to that 14 second quarter, though the car isn't really quite the same any more...

Futurilla - It's unfortunate that it's the nature of most self-respecting NT women to play hard-to-get :( We'll only really go after someone if we think that he's miles better than us, so to speak...because we consider that there is no other way to get him. He's not gonna go after a girl he deems less than him (Bloody society and its social tiers!). It's more unfortunate that this standoffish and rather difficult to read behaviour actually means 'if you want me come and get me'! We like being chased if we're interested ;)

Thankfully in my case, my guy was very much a difficult one to throw off - even though I'd mistakenly thrown some negative signals his way, he STILL chased after me (considering I even had a boyfriend at the time!). And as I've discovered, thankfully he hasn't got major touch issues. He doesn't like it from randoms since he's quite sensitive, but from me apparently it's very intimate for him ;) (some idiot made the mistake of leaning their elbow on his shoulder even though he told them to feck off...the got a fist in the face, I believe :lol: And rightfully so!)

Trust me, we girls REALLY LOVE IT when some guy is interested in us. It makes us feel flattered, wanted, sexy, lusted after...;) Except when we don't like the guy of course. I'd say that unless she's BLATANTLY telling you to jump in a lake, she doesn't really mind you chasing after her. Don't give up too easily, as the harder a guy fights for a girl's love is a measure of his dedication to her. That's important to most females in the animal kingdom and humans are no exception :)

Biostructure - oh trust me, if a girl falls in love with you, it'll be for your intellectual prowess and uniqueness :) It is after all, I'd imagine, your biggest bright and shiny feature to offer someone. There are a lot of people with more depth than mere image after all - and as with many Aspies you've got quite a set of talents and capabilities that the average guy just doesn't posess. I'm one of those girls - I don't like my boyfriend for his car (even though it's feggin' nice for a non-turbo), or even for his sexy looks (fark, he's a nice-lookin' boy!)...it's that knowledge I admire. He's just...born knowing things. He's never worked as a mechanic, or even studied it...yet he was the one that did my drum-to-disk rear brake conversion as well as installed my new struts. And my new head unit. And my STi gauge cluster. And all the brake pads. The list goes on! :lol: He's amazingly intelligent and I love that about him...

Oh and I definitely agree with being good in bed and being socially awkward being separate things. ;) Truuuust me on that one :lol:

With said girl though...she'll love you for your greatest talents, and admire you for it. But don't forget...she'll have amazing features herself...and you'll need to be prepared to offer a bit of the same love yourself :D



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03 Mar 2007, 10:06 pm

How to affectionate toward an Aspie?

I'm friends with a tomboy and sometimes we go places together. We don't get all affectionate with each other because she knows I, the Aspie, get all tensed up.

Ask the Aspie what his interests are and see what you have in common with him.



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03 Mar 2007, 10:21 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
How to affectionate toward an Aspie?

I'm friends with a tomboy and sometimes we go places together. We don't get all affectionate with each other because she knows I, the Aspie, get all tensed up.

Ask the Aspie what his interests are and see what you have in common with him.


Trust me, we're already well beyond that point :) We're already 'going out' so to speak...our interests are very similar. We're both obsessed with the Subaru Impreza, so all good on that point. I think I managed to get him a bit horny over related talk once, though admittedly it was what, 1am, and we were both a bit...erm...frustrated already :lol:

My trouble up until recently has been trying to figure out how to push the relationship a bit further, crossing that barrier there that prevents it from being a really close relationship. It seems it's down to the good ol' communication there. I've been brought up in a family that's about 99% non-verbal communication. I know how to tell different kinds of silence and what they mean! I know when someone's pissed off at me, pissed off at someone else, upset, depressed, busy, all by the different ways in which they're being silent. We can communicate without saying a word. Other times, we communicate almost entirely by talking between the lines. Hence, it makes it a bit interesting when I suddenly need to start verbalising everything, clearly and explicitly. It's something I've NEVER done. And I think that's a large part of the problem :lol:



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03 Mar 2007, 10:30 pm

Well, sometimes Aspies do have communication problems down to the point where they have to write something down. What you are doing right now is great, even though you have to speak to your Aspie BF in more broader terms.

Verbalise everything as broad as possible until he learns what "between the lines" mean.



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03 Mar 2007, 10:37 pm

Yeah that's what I've had to start doing - with some good results. It's a bit exhausting though.

I've also started exaggerating the body language though, and really explained what it means. He's really good when he knows what different things mean (me looking away, or hands on hips, or deep sighs...this means OMFG YOU'RE BORING ME SO MUCH [he likes talking about subjects he's interested in for endless hours whether listeners are interested or not] and usually takes note...I can tolerate about 20 minutes of the same subject if not interested, after that my brain starts to melt :lol:).

More than anything I'm huge on contact, I love being snuggled and touched, and apparently he doesn't mind doing it ;) Just has no feckin' clue of when, where or how to do it, so avoids doing it so he doesn't look like an idiot. Frankly I'd prefer him to make a goob out of himself if he at least tries :lol: Basically - have had to start being a lot more touchy-feely myself to get the point across, but I did check with him to see if that was alright. I know he's quite sensitive to the touch and don't want to startle him or piss him off :? Apparently from me, he doesn't mind :lol:



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04 Mar 2007, 1:40 pm

Shale wrote:
More than anything I'm huge on contact, I love being snuggled and touched, and apparently he doesn't mind doing it ;) Just has no feckin' clue of when, where or how to do it, so avoids doing it so he doesn't look like an idiot. Frankly I'd prefer him to make a goob out of himself if he at least tries :lol: Basically - have had to start being a lot more touchy-feely myself to get the point across, but I did check with him to see if that was alright. I know he's quite sensitive to the touch and don't want to startle him or piss him off :? Apparently from me, he doesn't mind :lol:

Looks like you're on the right track. Your boyfriend seems to enjoy (or at least tolerate pretty well) being physical with you, and you're getting what you want. Just be straight with him that you like physical contact, sexual or otherwise. If worse comes to worse, there are always those groping sessions with your friends (be sure to tell us how they went :wink: just kidding), for you to get that daily physical contact fix.