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naturalplastic
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19 Apr 2014, 1:43 pm

But we wouldnt be here if they hadnt been litterbugs!



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19 Apr 2014, 1:46 pm

They violated the Prime Directive.


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19 Apr 2014, 1:55 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Europa is too cold for microbial, single-cellular life to reproduce (and so is everywhere else where the temperature is constantly below -20 degrees celcius). This is why freezers preserve food so well.

You're assuming the life would be on the surface and not lower in the ocean. Microbial life survived through at least two "snowball earth" phases on our own planet by moving down the water column. We won't have evidence one way or another until at least the 2030's (2022 launch date) when the ESA gets it's lander there to actually dig through the ice, but I'll be very surprised if the elements of life are there and no actual life.



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19 Apr 2014, 2:40 pm

Even taking the false timeline of the Big Bang, we are new. We form during the Third Act. This is ten billion years after the opening line.

What is known, as soon as our rock cooled off, five billion years ago, there was life.

Life as pond scum, driven by DNA so complex it has never been replicated.

Also so unstable as to mutate and grow legs. All life traces back to pond scum.

So it could not have formed by accident in just our solar system.

We are also in Universe III, as it would have taken five billion years for light to become something sticky, form globs, , heat, blow up, splatter solids, which glomed together to form Universe II, which also blew up.

We form from the well mixed rubble of Universe II. If we got life, so did all the rest.

Pond scum would not have survived the glowing bubbling rock phase of our formation, but shows up as soon as the surface cooled.

There could have been more, if the universe is expanding, the first few would have had the same mass in a smaller area, so would have formed bigger lumps that blow up faster.

It points to Pond Scum with pretentions being the sole life form, that survived exploding soup.

We know from our own stable and loving geology that all life was slaughtered without mercy at least nine times, and deserved it. For Pond Scum it was only a short setback, and soon, as many funny looking forms again are seen.

It does have limits, nothing found on the Moon or Mars yet, but doing some ice cores out in the Oort Cloud might turn up dormant pond scum.

If all life in the Universe has the same starting point, and all current stars formed from a prior unstable universe, at about the same time, something like what we know could be everywhere. Elements, forces, seem the same, and with so many billions of tries, some are going to have common results.

We are unlikely, the form that should have survived, the Raptor T Rex form, should be the dominate being. Now we find they were warm blooded with feathers. Down here we have millions of gators surving without any imports from China, no jobs, and they fit well within the world. Big gators eat little ones, and live for hundreds of years.

If you think Mammals are intelligent, go visit a zoo, where they live better than in nature, or a slaughter house, where none have ever caught on. Speak to them, and see what they say. Or do the same at Walmart. Beware! Even the ones that could not eat you will still kick, bite, and spew insults and threats.

Life in the Universe could be worse than California, or China, where holding two jobs produces a bowl of rice a day. The Chinese would consider Mars better than China.

The drive to deep space travel is from life at home being unbearable.

Our own history is to enslave and colonize those who do not have guns, and to bring fire and ruin on those that do.

Peaceful coexistance is where one party becomes compost.

Any alien who reached here would have a means of killing the dominate species, and our FBI, CIA, Millitary, would kidnap them, torture them, and demand to know where their homeworld is and how the ship works.

As Ripley said, "Take off, nuke them from space, it is the only way to be sure."



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19 Apr 2014, 3:14 pm

AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
can survive -273c or being boiled
who knows what else could be out there


Actually, they eventually die from boiling, and they hibernate when the temperature drops.


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techstepgenr8tion
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19 Apr 2014, 3:36 pm

Odds that it's satanic/demonic manifestation - practically none, particularly when the bible doesn't hold up against scrutiny for being what everyone wants to claim it is.

Odds that we're being visited by physical life forms living in another solar system possibly in another galaxy - not impossible but the behavior of what people are seeing or encountering doesn't sit coherently for an intelligent race in that circumstance.

Odds that we're tangled up in something that's more of a group psychological phenomena but we don't get it because we've culturally held misguided assumptions on where the corporate limits of human thought and consciousness are - sits a lot better in this case and for a whole host of other phenomena that don't mesh well with modern beliefs.

Odds of our origins by panspermia - no clue. I have no horse in that race and if we find solid evidence for it we can worry about it then.



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19 Apr 2014, 4:34 pm

If it's ever proven there had once been life on Mars, but that it had died out eons ago, I would not at all be surprised.


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19 Apr 2014, 4:36 pm

I reckon that if aliens from outer space were smart enough to know for sure of our existence, then they would also be smart enough to keep away from us or they would be smart enough to come here and remain undetected.

That's what I think anyway.


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20 Apr 2014, 7:21 am

Inventor wrote:
Life as pond scum, driven by DNA so complex it has never been replicated.

Also so unstable as to mutate and grow legs. All life traces back to pond scum.


This is something I've noted and find interesting.

That supposedly "simple" and "primitive" life on Earth is more genetically complex than the "pinnacle" of evolution supposedly is.

Now, this could be a TMI (too much information) factor in genetics where the shear volume of genetic data means NOTHING can specialize so you are nothing but pond scum, but basically one is arguing that DE-EVOLUTION (or loss of genetic information) is why creatures "evolve."

Always fascinating since we perceive that superior humans would be the product of being able to encode more genetic information into DNA when it seems that it is removal of genetic information that's the prime factor.



AutisticGuy1981
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20 Apr 2014, 6:00 pm

Kurgan wrote:
AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
can survive -273c or being boiled
who knows what else could be out there


Actually, they eventually die from boiling, and they hibernate when the temperature drops.

but it's proof even on earth we have life that could survive extremes on other planets.

some plants in the arctic or wherever it was are coming back to life as well as the snow melts, it's possible there is dormant life on europa or mars just waiting for the right conditions



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20 Apr 2014, 6:35 pm

AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
can survive -273c or being boiled
who knows what else could be out there


Actually, they eventually die from boiling, and they hibernate when the temperature drops.

but it's proof even on earth we have life that could survive extremes on other planets.

some plants in the arctic or wherever it was are coming back to life as well as the snow melts, it's possible there is dormant life on europa or mars just waiting for the right conditions


Yes, but it would have had to reproduce and develop in less harsh conditions.


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20 Apr 2014, 6:45 pm

If I was in charge, I would create some intelligent creatures, and other life forms capable of living on various planets in the solar system. Engineer some strong instincts for kindness, and empathy, and they'll do better than we ever did. Let them venture into space, and build an interstellar empire geared towards knowledge and exploration. If we leave it to our stupid species all we're going to get is space-slavery.



sonofghandi
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21 Apr 2014, 6:53 am

Kurgan wrote:
AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
can survive -273c or being boiled
who knows what else could be out there


Actually, they eventually die from boiling, and they hibernate when the temperature drops.


They can only survive for 10-12 years in space or without food or water, so travelling through space to get here is very unlikely.


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AutisticGuy1981
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21 Apr 2014, 7:31 am

sonofghandi wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
can survive -273c or being boiled
who knows what else could be out there


Actually, they eventually die from boiling, and they hibernate when the temperature drops.


They can only survive for 10-12 years in space or without food or water, so travelling through space to get here is very unlikely.

only 10-12 years and that's a life form from a planet that is relatively stable and friendly.

I'd expect if there are any life forms outside of our planet they will be a lot better at adapting than a tardigrade is

I wonder why nasa never did any more metabolic tests for life on mars after viking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_spa ... ontroversy
boring video but meh
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOIPZayCEDA[/youtube]
BTW he's not just some random youtube nutter
Quote:
Gilbert Levin has a long history in space biology. In 1965, he served on the Planetary Quarantine Advisory Panel commissioned by NASA, then chaired a NASA-sponsored committee recommending experiments for the Biosatellite, was principal investigator on a NASA-sponsored Return Mars Sample study, was a co-investigator on Mariner 9, and was a member of the NASA-sponsored Mars Oxidant Experiment on the ill-fated 1996 Russian mission to Mars. However, it is on his 10-year stint as Experimenter of the Labeled Release life-detection experiment aboard the 1976 Viking Mission to Mars that he makes his claim for having detected microbial life on that planet. In other projects for NASA, Levin's team developed and instrumented life-detection experiments based on photosynthesis, metabolic uptake of essential elements, and the detection of ATP by the firefly bioluminescent assay.



sonofghandi
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21 Apr 2014, 9:04 am

AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
AutisticGuy1981 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
can survive -273c or being boiled
who knows what else could be out there


Actually, they eventually die from boiling, and they hibernate when the temperature drops.


They can only survive for 10-12 years in space or without food or water, so travelling through space to get here is very unlikely.

only 10-12 years and that's a life form from a planet that is relatively stable and friendly.

I'd expect if there are any life forms outside of our planet they will be a lot better at adapting than a tardigrade is

I wonder why nasa never did any more metabolic tests for life on mars after viking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_spa ... ontroversy
boring video but meh
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOIPZayCEDA[/youtube]
BTW he's not just some random youtube nutter
Quote:
Gilbert Levin has a long history in space biology. In 1965, he served on the Planetary Quarantine Advisory Panel commissioned by NASA, then chaired a NASA-sponsored committee recommending experiments for the Biosatellite, was principal investigator on a NASA-sponsored Return Mars Sample study, was a co-investigator on Mariner 9, and was a member of the NASA-sponsored Mars Oxidant Experiment on the ill-fated 1996 Russian mission to Mars. However, it is on his 10-year stint as Experimenter of the Labeled Release life-detection experiment aboard the 1976 Viking Mission to Mars that he makes his claim for having detected microbial life on that planet. In other projects for NASA, Levin's team developed and instrumented life-detection experiments based on photosynthesis, metabolic uptake of essential elements, and the detection of ATP by the firefly bioluminescent assay.


I have a difficult time seeing this as any type of credible evidence for life on Mars. 3 out of the 4 tests were completely negative, with the gas spectronomy test showing that the composition of the soil taken was less hospitable than the samples brought back of dust from the moon. Only one test showed any possibility (and then only on 1 of 3 measurements), and it has been since shown that such results could easily have been a false positive due to the oxidation on the surface because of a lack of ozone layer. And even after many scientists have tried to argue that it was possible that there is life but the tests themselves may have hidden or destroyed traces of it, the initial results for the LR test "no evidence of life" have only seen a slight shift toward "inconclusive evidence."

It does not surprise me that the person who headed the program to prove there was life on Mars is adament that his program proved exactly what he was hoping to. Thanks to his efforts, billions of dollars have been wasted designing systems and programs that are unlikely to provide any better results, even if there is microbial evidence. All of that money could have been put into getting a team of scientists there who could have run many more tests with many less complications than remotely done tests. But even now, multiple designs and plans are underway to send unmanned probes that fully intend to prove the existence of something, instead of a focus on trying to measure something. What an inefficient and somewhat depressing use of research money.


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AutisticGuy1981
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22 Apr 2014, 3:00 am

maybe it was a false positive but I doubt the testing equipment costed as much money as you assume, it sounds like one of the most basic tests imaginable.

even if there was only a slim chance don't you think NASA should be looking? it's like they don't want to find life because most people would probably be really dumb and we would end up with stupid tabloid articles about potential killer plagues laying dormant in Martian soil. :lol:

NASA seemed apprehensive just to even look for any signs of water on mars for decades and now we know there most likely is frozen water then maybe it's time we start properly checking the soil.

or maybe NASA already knows there is life out there like all the conspiracy theorists think because of some of the communications between astronauts and nasa in the early years when everything was pretty much eaves dropped on by the public.

TBH I think I have more faith in the commercial space programs than I do nasa right now as they have more of a reason to actually find stuff and make money.

NASA could probably have been mining asteroids by now if they had the incentive