Women and men irritate the crap out of eachother!

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Hopper
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29 Apr 2014, 7:59 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo - most 'men's' topics are also meh, no? Cars? Sport? Drinking? 'Hot' women? Women-at-large? An oddly unsexy sexuality? The necessity of convincing me of their masculinity? Their job? Their gym routine? Their gadgets? Their ill considered political opinions? If I do find myself stuck with a similarly stereotypically vacuous woman, at least I'm not expected to share her interests, and she won't take a simmering-with-violence response if I don't agree with her.


Nope, you are talking about the typical macho men, but remember!! Nerdy and geeky guys are way more common than geeky women! So it wouldn't be hard to have a such bunch of nerdy guys.

these aren't the topics I talk about with my male friends, casually they might talk about some hot woman or cars; the spoken topics are mostly: any kind of scientific discoveries, last books, technology - in depth, religious/social criticism, gadgets (yes, I love that too), manipulating some gadgets, specific things or incidents at work, non-typical tv shows like Discovery shows, some movie, games ...etc.

There are plenty of things they talk about, of course not every one of them initiate to talk about all these things, but when we're all together we talk about these things.


I don't know about macho as such, it just struck me as the male equivalent of your run down of 'women's interests'. Each to their own, of course, which I guess is the point to take from this, but much of what you describe I would find similarly tedious. Possibly religious/social criticism, but that depends if you mean it in the sense of 'boo! That's rubbish!' criticism, or more like art criticism, engaging the subjects with sincere interest and consideration. I'm quite sure you (and many others) would find what I take to be fascinating, boring if not plain stupid.




marshall wrote:
Stereotypically gender-specific topics tend to bore me. I enjoy the company of people who are androgynous in their mental style and interests. People with depth.


Yep. The people who just can't seem to feel at home in the world. The messed up, smart, insightful/thoughtful queer (meant in many senses) sort. I can get on with them.


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Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Apr 2014, 1:39 am

Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo - most 'men's' topics are also meh, no? Cars? Sport? Drinking? 'Hot' women? Women-at-large? An oddly unsexy sexuality? The necessity of convincing me of their masculinity? Their job? Their gym routine? Their gadgets? Their ill considered political opinions? If I do find myself stuck with a similarly stereotypically vacuous woman, at least I'm not expected to share her interests, and she won't take a simmering-with-violence response if I don't agree with her.


Nope, you are talking about the typical macho men, but remember!! Nerdy and geeky guys are way more common than geeky women! So it wouldn't be hard to have a such bunch of nerdy guys.

these aren't the topics I talk about with my male friends, casually they might talk about some hot woman or cars; the spoken topics are mostly: any kind of scientific discoveries, last books, technology - in depth, religious/social criticism, gadgets (yes, I love that too), manipulating some gadgets, specific things or incidents at work, non-typical tv shows like Discovery shows, some movie, games ...etc.

There are plenty of things they talk about, of course not every one of them initiate to talk about all these things, but when we're all together we talk about these things.


I don't know about macho as such, it just struck me as the male equivalent of your run down of 'women's interests'. Each to their own, of course, which I guess is the point to take from this, but much of what you describe I would find similarly tedious. Possibly religious/social criticism, but that depends if you mean it in the sense of 'boo! That's rubbish!' criticism, or more like art criticism, engaging the subjects with sincere interest and consideration. I'm quite sure you (and many others) would find what I take to be fascinating, boring if not plain stupid.



If you find all these things tedious then you're not my type, you're too boring to me. Hell, what topics you talk about?

By "religious/social criticism," I mean topics like:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt257044.html

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt257549.html

Not the typical religion/ancient history conversations.


I personally find guys far less homogeneous when it comes to interests and hobbies, hell, I found out they are even less homogeneous when it comes to "hot women" - some find hot what I find too overweight, other find ugly what I find attractive, but ....most women, like similar archetype of guys and more homogeneous in interests.



The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Apr 2014, 4:10 am

Eureka13 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Eureka13 wrote:
Basically, what it comes down to for me is that group dynamics are extremely difficult for me, whether it's male or female or mixed-gender groups. At least when I'm in a group of males, they're not (subconsciously) trying to compete with me. Since I don't get the whole social competetiveness thing, this makes it a more comfortable setting for me.

When I say things like I'd rather cut off one of my limbs than be in an all-female group, it's not because I hate them or think they're all worthless b*tches; mainly it's because they usually are interested in talking about typical mainstream interests. Since I have less than zero interest in any of these topics, I can't contribute, so I sit like a lump in the corner while all this completely uninteresting (to me) conversation goes on around me. With a group of men I can always talk about cars or science or sports and find some common ground, or at least some topic where I can join the conversation. If I do happen to find a woman who shares one or more of my interests, I do my best make friends with her. But it's rare to come across a woman like that.

Men I can talk to are much less rare; therefore it's simply easier for me - less of a stretch to my anti-social tendencies. Trying to make conversation is hard enough; when the prevailing conversation is something I know nothing about, it becomes a Catch-22 - the more excluded I feel, the more uncomfortable I am; the more uncomfortable I am, the more excluded I feel.



I am a straight man and I feel exactly the same about women, so it not just a matter of competition; most women's interests are simply meh, let me guess what the topics your female acquaintances talk about: Celebs, guys, other girls, who's dating who, kids/babies, makeup/cosmetic, cosmetic products and photos on facebook/Instagram, am I right?? am I right?? I bet I am right!! :lol: And hey, the younger of them don't even talk or know anything about cooking, one of my favorite interests!

I've only known only one group of women who were slightly different than the typical ones and deeper than that, and I liked two of them, go figure! As if I have some kind of hunger for a deeper woman.

And btw when the typical woman tries to step in to talk about something "intellectual" it usually goes totally disastrous, I recall once I was invited along with my male friend and his wife to a lasagna dinner by a female colleague (and I've found a living baby cockroach crawling from under my plate to my lasagna and pretended I am stuffed at half meal already!) and her sister (she's above 30) once she learned I am agnostic, was trying to venture an "intellectual" conversation with me by trying to disapproving evolution, and she was like "How evolution can be right while my grand grand grand father can't be a dinosaur?" - to my shocking I was like "Huh?" and I was slow to respond to a such question trying to not explode of laughter or something, I mean how comes Charles Darwin didn't even think of this?? LOL. Surprisingly tho, my Christian friend who's not a keen believer in evolution had explained her the gradual process of evolution and told her of polar bears as why they're white as a concrete simple example; I was surprised that he knows all the basics (natural selection/ sexual selection, environment and mutation) which means that he READS ( Even tho she repeated the stupid questions which means that she didn't get his input, he told me later on "she has no freaking idea about the subject so it really can't be discussed with her"). Of course, that's one story, there are many others.

Seriously Eureka, instead of keep telling me that I should never complain about them, you should count your blessings that you don't have to date them, imagine how hard and rare it would be to find someone who shares interests with you or at least someone not so air-headed. Look at your past posts, you and along a lot of women on WP, do complain also about the typical women.


Btw my mother is a genius-level mathématicienne and math teacher, so I wasn't raised by a typical woman.


You don't have to date "typical" women, either. Just like I don't have to (and won't) date "typical" men. :lol:

You just always seem to forget that there are plenty of non-typical women, right here on WP. Sadly, it doesn't seem there are many of them where you live. Likewise, there are not very many non-typical men where I live (there are actually more non-typical women than non-typical men in my immediate vicinity, especially among the 25-40-yr-old demographic). As I've said before, stereotypes are not one-size-fit-all, but there is some basis for the stereotypes. Personally, I consider myself lucky to both *be* a non-typical woman and to only be attracted to non-typical men.

I'm glad to hear you're actually more attracted to the smarter, more independent types. Hopefully you'll find one soon. :)



And not all smarter women are better persons btw, the smartest and most non-typical woman I knew turned out to be the most gold-digger ass.



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30 Apr 2014, 4:27 am

Men don't irritate me at all.

Annoying twats irritate me, regardless of gender .



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30 Apr 2014, 4:29 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Eureka13 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Eureka13 wrote:
Basically, what it comes down to for me is that group dynamics are extremely difficult for me, whether it's male or female or mixed-gender groups. At least when I'm in a group of males, they're not (subconsciously) trying to compete with me. Since I don't get the whole social competetiveness thing, this makes it a more comfortable setting for me.

When I say things like I'd rather cut off one of my limbs than be in an all-female group, it's not because I hate them or think they're all worthless b*tches; mainly it's because they usually are interested in talking about typical mainstream interests. Since I have less than zero interest in any of these topics, I can't contribute, so I sit like a lump in the corner while all this completely uninteresting (to me) conversation goes on around me. With a group of men I can always talk about cars or science or sports and find some common ground, or at least some topic where I can join the conversation. If I do happen to find a woman who shares one or more of my interests, I do my best make friends with her. But it's rare to come across a woman like that.

Men I can talk to are much less rare; therefore it's simply easier for me - less of a stretch to my anti-social tendencies. Trying to make conversation is hard enough; when the prevailing conversation is something I know nothing about, it becomes a Catch-22 - the more excluded I feel, the more uncomfortable I am; the more uncomfortable I am, the more excluded I feel.



I am a straight man and I feel exactly the same about women, so it not just a matter of competition; most women's interests are simply meh, let me guess what the topics your female acquaintances talk about: Celebs, guys, other girls, who's dating who, kids/babies, makeup/cosmetic, cosmetic products and photos on facebook/Instagram, am I right?? am I right?? I bet I am right!! :lol: And hey, the younger of them don't even talk or know anything about cooking, one of my favorite interests!

I've only known only one group of women who were slightly different than the typical ones and deeper than that, and I liked two of them, go figure! As if I have some kind of hunger for a deeper woman.

And btw when the typical woman tries to step in to talk about something "intellectual" it usually goes totally disastrous, I recall once I was invited along with my male friend and his wife to a lasagna dinner by a female colleague (and I've found a living baby cockroach crawling from under my plate to my lasagna and pretended I am stuffed at half meal already!) and her sister (she's above 30) once she learned I am agnostic, was trying to venture an "intellectual" conversation with me by trying to disapproving evolution, and she was like "How evolution can be right while my grand grand grand father can't be a dinosaur?" - to my shocking I was like "Huh?" and I was slow to respond to a such question trying to not explode of laughter or something, I mean how comes Charles Darwin didn't even think of this?? LOL. Surprisingly tho, my Christian friend who's not a keen believer in evolution had explained her the gradual process of evolution and told her of polar bears as why they're white as a concrete simple example; I was surprised that he knows all the basics (natural selection/ sexual selection, environment and mutation) which means that he READS ( Even tho she repeated the stupid questions which means that she didn't get his input, he told me later on "she has no freaking idea about the subject so it really can't be discussed with her"). Of course, that's one story, there are many others.

Seriously Eureka, instead of keep telling me that I should never complain about them, you should count your blessings that you don't have to date them, imagine how hard and rare it would be to find someone who shares interests with you or at least someone not so air-headed. Look at your past posts, you and along a lot of women on WP, do complain also about the typical women.


Btw my mother is a genius-level mathématicienne and math teacher, so I wasn't raised by a typical woman.


You don't have to date "typical" women, either. Just like I don't have to (and won't) date "typical" men. :lol:

You just always seem to forget that there are plenty of non-typical women, right here on WP. Sadly, it doesn't seem there are many of them where you live. Likewise, there are not very many non-typical men where I live (there are actually more non-typical women than non-typical men in my immediate vicinity, especially among the 25-40-yr-old demographic). As I've said before, stereotypes are not one-size-fit-all, but there is some basis for the stereotypes. Personally, I consider myself lucky to both *be* a non-typical woman and to only be attracted to non-typical men.

I'm glad to hear you're actually more attracted to the smarter, more independent types. Hopefully you'll find one soon. :)



And not all smarter women are better persons btw, the smartest and most non-typical woman I knew turned out to be the most gold-digger ass.


Nailed it.

Intelligence is no indication of niceness or goodness. None at all.



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30 Apr 2014, 4:31 am

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
On the subject of cross gender communication and Aspergers, I couldn't help but notice all the Aspie-like females I know have mostly male friends (and few if any female friends) and all the Aspie-like males have mostly female friends and few if any male friends (like me). I recently met an Aspie male in his mid 20s and you guessed it, all his close friends are female. I've also tried to befriend Aspie males and it has been a monumental failure on both sides. Maybe this has to do with the whole being oblivious to the whole social competitiveness game?

I'm male but I find I feel more at home around females and can generally relate to them better. Probably why it's hard to show off my masculinity in a relationship.


Aspies aren't completely oblivious. Having friends all of the opposite gender is more of an indication of what type of person you are as opposed to whether you have aspergers or not.



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30 Apr 2014, 6:58 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo - most 'men's' topics are also meh, no? Cars? Sport? Drinking? 'Hot' women? Women-at-large? An oddly unsexy sexuality? The necessity of convincing me of their masculinity? Their job? Their gym routine? Their gadgets? Their ill considered political opinions? If I do find myself stuck with a similarly stereotypically vacuous woman, at least I'm not expected to share her interests, and she won't take a simmering-with-violence response if I don't agree with her.


Nope, you are talking about the typical macho men, but remember!! Nerdy and geeky guys are way more common than geeky women! So it wouldn't be hard to have a such bunch of nerdy guys.

these aren't the topics I talk about with my male friends, casually they might talk about some hot woman or cars; the spoken topics are mostly: any kind of scientific discoveries, last books, technology - in depth, religious/social criticism, gadgets (yes, I love that too), manipulating some gadgets, specific things or incidents at work, non-typical tv shows like Discovery shows, some movie, games ...etc.

There are plenty of things they talk about, of course not every one of them initiate to talk about all these things, but when we're all together we talk about these things.


I don't know about macho as such, it just struck me as the male equivalent of your run down of 'women's interests'. Each to their own, of course, which I guess is the point to take from this, but much of what you describe I would find similarly tedious. Possibly religious/social criticism, but that depends if you mean it in the sense of 'boo! That's rubbish!' criticism, or more like art criticism, engaging the subjects with sincere interest and consideration. I'm quite sure you (and many others) would find what I take to be fascinating, boring if not plain stupid.



If you find all these things tedious then you're not my type, you're too boring to me. Hell, what topics you talk about?

By "religious/social criticism," I mean topics like:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt257044.html

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt257549.html

Not the typical religion/ancient history conversations.


I personally find guys far less homogeneous when it comes to interests and hobbies, hell, I found out they are even less homogeneous when it comes to "hot women" - some find hot what I find too overweight, other find ugly what I find attractive, but ....most women, like similar archetype of guys and more homogeneous in interests.


I gave a 40% women/5% men bearability figure earlier in this thread. In terms of this, I am imagining being stuck somewhere with someone who doesn't pick up (or care to pick up) on my attempts at being unapproachable, and where I find myself stuck in a kind of panicked retreat, unable to extricate myself. So, I have, say, an hour's bus journey to look forward to with someone who insists on trying to make conversation with me. In those circumstances, the 40/5 figures apply. Very, very, very unlikely I'd make some great new friend, but those numbers reperesent the gender-specific chance it won't be a living hell for the duration. If they can talk intelligently about themselves (or even better, topics of mutual interest. Even better yet, the interplay between self and topic) - great. I might be able to get into that. Otherwise I try and approach it as a more interactive form of people watching and make the best of it. This is when I'm in the 40/5 zone(s). Outside of that, it's enough to put me in a bad way for the day.

(I understand there is a phenomenom called 'resting b***h face' - a sort of permanent scowl that doesn't match the person's warmth and friendliness. I seem to suffer from 'resting friendly-and-approachable face', completely at odds with my preference for being left alone, and even my attempts to convey such - a body language that is closed and hunched, earphones in even if not actually being used, reading)

It's a pretty small circle, the people I know and care about, who I find interesting and whose perspectives I value, definitely weighted to the female, and communicating mostly through e-mail (most live at some distance). So, I'm interested in their day-to-day lives, how they're getting on, what they're thinking. I can best explain it that, though I may not share a particular taste or interest in something, I can very much appreciate and understand why they have that taste/interest.

In terms of topics - music, books, films, art, various creative pursuits, politics in both Westminster/party and political philosophy/theory sense, metaphysics, mind, sexuality, architecture, topography, psychology mingling with psychoanalysis, grey areas, lived experience, the sublime, the uncanny, the weird, monsters, subjectivities, myths, metaphors, meaning, ideas and concepts and attributes/qualities thereof and how they relate, within and between. Deathly dull - idiotic, even - to many, I'm sure. That's fine.

I'd judge that men-at-large are a little more homogenous than women-at-large. But there's all sorts of local/experiential differences to account for this disagreement.


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You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


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30 Apr 2014, 8:20 am

^ a lot of topics you mentioned are in science category and others (...etc), at least hal of them I am into them.

I am surprised that you find more women than men who are interested in those.



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30 Apr 2014, 11:11 am

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And not all smarter women are better persons btw, the smartest and most non-typical woman I knew turned out to be the most gold-digger ass.


That's why I said "smarter, more independent types." First of all, no one is claiming that sheer intelligence is the "one that rules them all." Second, I think the gold-digger types are "smart like a fox" - i.e., they have sufficient brainpower combined with the right kind of well-honed social skills to be able to successfully manipulate people (the female version of a PUA, in my estimation). In other words, they use their ability to manipulate people in order to appear smarter than they actually are. I've encountered enough of these types (both male and female) to now be able to recognize them pretty quickly. These types are not happy unless they're getting someone else to jump through their hoops.

Someone who is genuinely intelligent and good-hearted but may lack some of the social skills is the kind of person I enjoy being around for the long term. Not surprisingly, that does generally describe a lot of people with AS.



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30 Apr 2014, 2:47 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ a lot of topics you mentioned are in science category and others (...etc), at least hal of them I am into them.

I am surprised that you find more women than men who are interested in those.


I'm not entirely sure what there comes under a scientific category. I find that, astronomy aside (a fleeting, dabbling interest since childhood), science and 'scientific' explanation doesn't really move me. It is, of course, tremendously useful, but it doesn't spark my interest.

The people I know and talk to aren't really statistically significant.

I married into a smart, messed up family which comprises two sisters and their mother, my father-in-law some seven years dead (I estranged myself from my biological family as soon as I could) and have, over my decade plus online, picked up some longtime e-friends with whom I feel very at ease. Also, my sister-in-law has some odd knack for finding/drawing interesting people into her social circle, and I'll occasionally enjoy a conversation or two with such.


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Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


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30 Apr 2014, 3:37 pm

Eureka13 wrote:
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And not all smarter women are better persons btw, the smartest and most non-typical woman I knew turned out to be the most gold-digger ass.


That's why I said "smarter, more independent types." First of all, no one is claiming that sheer intelligence is the "one that rules them all." Second, I think the gold-digger types are "smart like a fox" - i.e., they have sufficient brainpower combined with the right kind of well-honed social skills to be able to successfully manipulate people (the female version of a PUA, in my estimation). In other words, they use their ability to manipulate people in order to appear smarter than they actually are. I've encountered enough of these types (both male and female) to now be able to recognize them pretty quickly. These types are not happy unless they're getting someone else to jump through their hoops.

Someone who is genuinely intelligent and good-hearted but may lack some of the social skills is the kind of person I enjoy being around for the long term. Not surprisingly, that does generally describe a lot of people with AS.


The woman wasn't that socially skilled, she had an extreme nerdy past, she was socially inept indoor person and bookworm but she hated her old self too much to the extent she has transformed into something else.



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30 Apr 2014, 3:53 pm

I guess, just there are books out there to help shy, nerdy men transform themselves into PUAs, there are books that help shy, nerdy women transform themselves into gold-diggers. :lol:



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01 May 2014, 1:01 am

Sometimes women view us men as that pet pitbull in their car tearing up their back seat but then comes up and licks the owner in the face!


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01 May 2014, 6:41 am

Geist, Eureka, Starvingartist....

You should take a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Hating-Other-Women

You need it more than WP guys :lol:.



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01 May 2014, 7:52 am

Nope, you guys appear to be the haters. I just have nothing in common with most women....and no desire to get in their pants. :lol:



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01 May 2014, 7:53 am

Silly phone, posting this three times....



Last edited by Eureka13 on 01 May 2014, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.