Japan announces intent to defy court order to stop "sci

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Max000
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23 Apr 2014, 4:56 pm

Yuzu wrote:
Right. You have to understand that whaling has been a part of their culture like fox hunting for the Brits and bull fighting for the Spanish.
The question is, now the Norway has beaten Japan in Whale killing, would Sea Shepherd go after them in the show?
What do you think of the things Paul Watson saying about the Japanese? You agree with him and support him?


I agree with and support Paul Watson. Also whaling is not a significant part of their culture. Only a small percentage of Japanese even eat whale. It's just a special business interest in Japan. Calling whaling part of Japanese culture, is like calling oil part of American culture. It's not culture, it's a business.



auntblabby
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23 Apr 2014, 5:05 pm

American culture IS business [also]. if only the Japanese whaling business model could be transformed instead into a touristy "see the whales" conservation model or something along those lines.



naturalplastic
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23 Apr 2014, 5:08 pm

Yuzu wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Twenty twelve was apparently a fluke (no pun intended) because all the websites show that since 2008 Japan has killed twice as many whales as Norway, and has done half of the whale kills in the world.


Give me the links to all those websites. I'm having a hard time finding the exact yearly statistics of each country.


I stumbled upon something called "the Whaling Library" and its "whaling statistics". Sorry I'm not more facil with posting links. Just google "the Whaling Library".

Its an interesting, but odd site. It gives you as many questions as answers!

You can click any year from 1910 onward and it will show a table divided by whale species, and by nation. But if you click 2011 it only gives you 2010. But thats still recent.

Actually it gives you two tables: one for the North Pacific, and one for the Antarctic.

It classifies the type of "operation". Whale kills by the USA, the USSR, and Denmark (really Greenland) are all classed as "aboriginal subsistence" (ie tribal folks are allowed some leeway). Japan is called "special permit". Some countries' kills are called "under objection" ( dont know what that means. Do they mean OVER the objections of the IWC?).

What puzzles me about the Whaling Library site is that it divides the whaling world into just two oceans: the Antarctic, and the North Pacific. Yet they give stats on what Greenland Eskimos kill in their own local waters (which are the Atlantic) . I guess it must be a whaling industry convention to divide the world's oceans into just two fisheries (with the atlantic lumped in with the antarctic).



eric76
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23 Apr 2014, 5:13 pm

Max000 wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
Right. You have to understand that whaling has been a part of their culture like fox hunting for the Brits and bull fighting for the Spanish.
The question is, now the Norway has beaten Japan in Whale killing, would Sea Shepherd go after them in the show?
What do you think of the things Paul Watson saying about the Japanese? You agree with him and support him?


I agree with and support Paul Watson. Also whaling is not a significant part of their culture. Only a small percentage of Japanese even eat whale. It's just a special business interest in Japan. Calling whaling part of Japanese culture, is like calling oil part of American culture. It's not culture, it's a business.


I respectfully disagree with the statement that whaling is not a significant part of their culture.

Whaling is certainly a part of Japanese culture. The consumption of whale in Japan is thought to have gone on for as long as 14,000 years, pretty much since the beginning of the Holocene.

Whaling has reportedly gone on in Japan since the 1570s. What changed in the 20th century was the capability of traveling further and further from Japan for the whales.

The keyword there is "significant". What does it mean for something to be a "significant" part of their culture? Does that mean that great numbers of people must be involved? I hardly think so. By that approach, it would be wrong to say that cattle ranching is not a significant part of Texas culture since the vast majority of Texans have never been involved in ranching.

If for something to be "significant" it has to be widely spread in the culture, then I guess we have almost no culture in the US with the possible exception of some sports and watching tv.

Also, keep in mind that for some time after World War II, whaling was important in Japan in order to feed their population. That, I think, would certain make it a significant part of their culture if it had not already been significant.



Yuzu
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23 Apr 2014, 5:21 pm

Max000 wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
Right. You have to understand that whaling has been a part of their culture like fox hunting for the Brits and bull fighting for the Spanish.
The question is, now the Norway has beaten Japan in Whale killing, would Sea Shepherd go after them in the show?
What do you think of the things Paul Watson saying about the Japanese? You agree with him and support him?


I agree with and support Paul Watson. Also whaling is not a significant part of their culture. Only a small percentage of Japanese even eat whale. It's just a special business interest in Japan. Calling whaling part of Japanese culture, is like calling oil part of American culture. It's not culture, it's a business.


So you agree with Paul Watson when he says;
"Japan has always closely identified with blood and slaughter. From the decapitations by the Samurai upon innocent peasants to the suicidal insanity of the Kamikaze, violence and self destruction have been a part of Japanese culture."

Noted.

As for the rest, I did not say it is a BIG part of their culture. Just like fox hunting and bull fighting which only a small number of people participate, it's definitely a part of their culture albeit a small one.



Max000
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23 Apr 2014, 5:28 pm

eric76 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
Right. You have to understand that whaling has been a part of their culture like fox hunting for the Brits and bull fighting for the Spanish.
The question is, now the Norway has beaten Japan in Whale killing, would Sea Shepherd go after them in the show?
What do you think of the things Paul Watson saying about the Japanese? You agree with him and support him?


I agree with and support Paul Watson. Also whaling is not a significant part of their culture. Only a small percentage of Japanese even eat whale. It's just a special business interest in Japan. Calling whaling part of Japanese culture, is like calling oil part of American culture. It's not culture, it's a business.


I respectfully disagree with the statement that whaling is not a significant part of their culture.

Whaling is certainly a part of Japanese culture. The consumption of whale in Japan is thought to have gone on for as long as 14,000 years, pretty much since the beginning of the Holocene.

Whaling has reportedly gone on in Japan since the 1570s. What changed in the 20th century was the capability of traveling further and further from Japan for the whales.


People in other parts of the world have been whaling for longer then that. There is nothing uniquely Japanese about it. Again only a small percentage of Japanese people even eat whale.



Yuzu
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23 Apr 2014, 5:36 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Twenty twelve was apparently a fluke (no pun intended) because all the websites show that since 2008 Japan has killed twice as many whales as Norway, and has done half of the whale kills in the world.


Give me the links to all those websites. I'm having a hard time finding the exact yearly statistics of each country.


I stumbled upon something called "the Whaling Library" and its "whaling statistics". Sorry I'm not more facil with posting links. Just google "the Whaling Library".

Its an interesting, but odd site. It gives you as many questions as answers!

You can click any year from 1910 onward and it will show a table divided by whale species, and by nation. But if you click 2011 it only gives you 2010. But thats still recent.

Actually it gives you two tables: one for the North Pacific, and one for the Antarctic.

It classifies the type of "operation". Whale kills by the USA, the USSR, and Denmark (really Greenland) are all classed as "aboriginal subsistence" (ie tribal folks are allowed some leeway). Japan is called "special permit". Some countries' kills are called "under objection" ( dont know what that means. Do they mean OVER the objections of the IWC?).

What puzzles me about the Whaling Library site is that it divides the whaling world into just two oceans: the Antarctic, and the North Pacific. Yet they give stats on what Greenland Eskimos kill in their own local waters (which are the Atlantic) . I guess it must be a whaling industry convention to divide the world's oceans into just two fisheries (with the atlantic lumped in with the antarctic).


Ok so you only have seen one website? Why did you say "ALL THE WEBSITES"?

According to the website you refer to me;

2007-2008 and Summer 2008
Japan - 551
Norway - 536

2008-2009 and Summer 2009
Japan - 681
Norway - 484

2009-2010 and Summer 2010
Japan - 508
Norway - 468

These numbers clearly contradicts what you claimed in your earlier post: "since 2008 Japan has killed twice as many whales as Norway"

Stop lying.



eric76
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23 Apr 2014, 5:37 pm

Max000 wrote:
eric76 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
Right. You have to understand that whaling has been a part of their culture like fox hunting for the Brits and bull fighting for the Spanish.
The question is, now the Norway has beaten Japan in Whale killing, would Sea Shepherd go after them in the show?
What do you think of the things Paul Watson saying about the Japanese? You agree with him and support him?


I agree with and support Paul Watson. Also whaling is not a significant part of their culture. Only a small percentage of Japanese even eat whale. It's just a special business interest in Japan. Calling whaling part of Japanese culture, is like calling oil part of American culture. It's not culture, it's a business.


I respectfully disagree with the statement that whaling is not a significant part of their culture.

Whaling is certainly a part of Japanese culture. The consumption of whale in Japan is thought to have gone on for as long as 14,000 years, pretty much since the beginning of the Holocene.

Whaling has reportedly gone on in Japan since the 1570s. What changed in the 20th century was the capability of traveling further and further from Japan for the whales.


People in other parts of the world have been whaling for longer then that. There is nothing uniquely Japanese about it. Again only a small percentage of Japanese people even eat whale.


It's only cultural if nobody else in the world does it as well?

That would pretty much eliminate everything.



spongy
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23 Apr 2014, 10:50 pm

Moved to PPR



Misslizard
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23 Apr 2014, 10:53 pm

They can use large greasy conservatives in place of whales.


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khaoz
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23 Apr 2014, 11:48 pm

What am I missing here? How did this topic jump into PPR?



naturalplastic
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24 Apr 2014, 6:58 am

Yuzu wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Twenty twelve was apparently a fluke (no pun intended) because all the websites show that since 2008 Japan has killed twice as many whales as Norway, and has done half of the whale kills in the world.


Give me the links to all those websites. I'm having a hard time finding the exact yearly statistics of each country.


I stumbled upon something called "the Whaling Library" and its "whaling statistics". Sorry I'm not more facil with posting links. Just google "the Whaling Library".

Its an interesting, but odd site. It gives you as many questions as answers!

You can click any year from 1910 onward and it will show a table divided by whale species, and by nation. But if you click 2011 it only gives you 2010. But thats still recent.

Actually it gives you two tables: one for the North Pacific, and one for the Antarctic.

It classifies the type of "operation". Whale kills by the USA, the USSR, and Denmark (really Greenland) are all classed as "aboriginal subsistence" (ie tribal folks are allowed some leeway). Japan is called "special permit". Some countries' kills are called "under objection" ( dont know what that means. Do they mean OVER the objections of the IWC?).

What puzzles me about the Whaling Library site is that it divides the whaling world into just two oceans: the Antarctic, and the North Pacific. Yet they give stats on what Greenland Eskimos kill in their own local waters (which are the Atlantic) . I guess it must be a whaling industry convention to divide the world's oceans into just two fisheries (with the atlantic lumped in with the antarctic).


Ok so you only have seen one website? Why did you say "ALL THE WEBSITES"?

According to the website you refer to me;

2007-2008 and Summer 2008
Japan - 551
Norway - 536

2008-2009 and Summer 2009
Japan - 681
Norway - 484

2009-2010 and Summer 2010
Japan - 508
Norway - 468

These numbers clearly contradicts what you claimed in your earlier post: "since 2008 Japan has killed twice as many whales as Norway"

Stop lying.


Go back to the first grade and learn to read, and learn to add, before you accuse people of lying.

And you outta move out of that glass house as well!

You lied yourself by ignoring the data on the same page of that same site that your yourself sited.

Look at BOTH tables and ADD both figures. Japan killed twice as many whales in '09, and half again as many as Norway in 2010.

They confirm,not conradict what I said.

And...youre welcome.

My pleasure helping you find that site.



naturalplastic
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24 Apr 2014, 7:01 am

khaoz wrote:
What am I missing here? How did this topic jump into PPR?


They move threads all of the time on WP.
This is obviously a hot button political/philosophical topic so the mods moved it to the PPR.



Yuzu
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24 Apr 2014, 9:33 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Go back to the first grade and learn to read, and learn to add, before you accuse people of lying.

And you outta move out of that glass house as well!

You lied yourself by ignoring the data on the same page of that same site that your yourself sited.

Look at BOTH tables and ADD both figures. Japan killed twice as many whales in '09, and half again as many as Norway in 2010.

They confirm,not conradict what I said.

And...youre welcome.

My pleasure helping you find that site.


Sigh. I missed the last table. I apologize for calling you a lier.

But if Norway did beat Japan in 2013 also, 2012 won't be a just fluke. I can't find the numbers.
Like I said earlier I just wish Japan quit whaling so that they wouldn't give Sea Shepherd any more pleasure of attacking them.

I still think Paul Watson is a racist as*hole for saying those things on his website.
I wonder if he insults Norwegians too. I don't feel like reading all his blog to find out.

Edit: I wish this topic hadn't been moved. I hate PPR and I don't post in here.



khaoz
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24 Apr 2014, 10:25 am

I hate PPR too. Sometimes when I come in here I feel like the tidy bowl man