I Just Cannot Make Friends No Matter What I Do!

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kraftiekortie
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14 May 2014, 1:48 pm

I know it's 30 years ago---but the Oilers won, I believe, 5 straight Stanley Cups. They had Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Andersen, etc. Maybe if Gretzky got into player development? Great players hardly ever make great coaches; hence my advocacy of Gretzky NOT being a coach.

I get what you mean about sports people; I've encountered the same types. It's a pity, really.

Perhaps somebody in your office is into hockey?

Really, sports historically, and still is, the Great Icebreaker (even amongst women these days).



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14 May 2014, 2:02 pm

Pobbles wrote:
You have an ex?

Sorry to point this out but that fact alone already makes you more socially advanced than a lot of other folk on the spectrum. I'd worry less.

BTW older friends of either sex are valuable to have, no matter what age you are. If you don't scare away the auld dears, you must have something going for you?

Married (or divorced) women especially mothers seem to absolutely adore me and they tell me all the time I am "husband material" especially seniors. This makes me even more confused because why do women my own age either avoid me or quickly drop from sight upon talking to me, even here at WP? I don't put on a phony front and talk to all women (and until recently everyone including children and men) the same! It's not like these seniors all have dementia: they remember being my age and haven't changed that much over the years. I can be serious and intense at times but I also laugh and play around and am pretty lighthearted and overall am easy to get along with.

As for my ex, yes but with a big asterisk. She was my only and I didn't even get my first kiss until almost 30 and while we lasted 18 months, it was rocky from the start. I later found out she almost certainly has severe Borderline Personality Disorder (I suspected Autism at first) and incredible mood swings and abandonment issues. Sure it's great to say I'm not a virgin and I managed to last that long, but it definitely jaded my view of women. The fact that the only woman who has wanted me is BPD and would sleep with anyone who didn't run from her is not very reassuring to say the least, especially since I do have the physical attractiveness women claim they like (very tall, fit, cleanly dressed and a full head of hair... for now).

kratiekortie wrote:
I know it's 30 years ago---but the Oilers won, I believe, 5 straight Stanley Cups. They had Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Andersen. Maybe if Gretzky got in to player development?

Not only have the Oilers won nothing since I became a hockey fan (1994) but NO Canadian team has ever won the Cup with me as a fan. Quite an incredible streak of futility!



Pobbles
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14 May 2014, 6:54 pm

The problem with being our age and not being married or having kids - most of our peers and women of our age are also married and have kids. This makes it difficult to spend time with people of this age unless you're married to them.

The good thing about our age is that we're mature enough and youthful enough to be an attractive prospect for older women... and younger women? Love. Older. Guys.

Most of my friends and romantic relationships have been snared at work, I've been lucky enough to work in several jobs that have given me access to a variety of demographics. I have met thousands of people, and interviewed hundreds. Not once have I found anyone of worth at a bar, or watching football.

(that said, it's good to have common interests. Drinking and sport to not interest me, unless it's drunk women's tennis)

Do you have any online hobbies BTW? Meeting people online in an environment where you obviously have common interests can make it easier and eliminates a lot of the problems Aspies have if there's no body language, eye contact, or gestures to worry about. For example, I play a lot of crap videogames and talk over VOIP to a lot of people on Xbox Live.
Most of the people online are severely antisocial lunatics, but occasionally you'll meet people that are decent and like-minded. I've known some of my online pals for 10 years now, we know each other's lives inside and out and I've met a few of them.



1401b
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14 May 2014, 8:40 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
[...]
1401b wrote:
Invite them over... where??
You're not inviting them to your home* are you??
Not for a first (or even eighth) social event are you?

Why not? That's usually where I am (rarely) invited. It's not like these are strangers: they all know who I am, where I work and what kind of person I am. Most of them constant complain about the lack of money too so I'm not about to offer to pay for their activities like I used to. [...]

Why not?
Because it's weird. You've been doing it, how's it working for you?

Perhaps you're doing nothing wrong, perhaps it's just everybody else.


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14 May 2014, 8:44 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Perhaps somebody in your office is into hockey?

Really, sports historically, and still is, the Great Icebreaker (even amongst women these days).

It was indeed the icebreaker with my ex. I would have NEVER given her the time of day otherwise in all seriousness and yes, I did enjoy taking her to games. Made me feel somewhat normal! As for work, yes plenty of hockey fans (and everyone knows I am obsessed) and it means lots of water cooler talk but no friendships. Most of the guys I talk hockey with are 40+ with wives and kids who are usually teenagers: not exactly friendship material to me. It's my only interest that I discuss here regularly at WP for a reason: even amongst Aspies mine are both obscure and unusual! I did try to befriend a married couple in their mid 20s a few years back and they were polite to me but that led nowhere, no doubt because I was single.

Pobbles wrote:
The problem with being our age and not being married or having kids - most of our peers and women of our age are also married and have kids. This makes it difficult to spend time with people of this age unless you're married to them.

The good thing about our age is that we're mature enough and youthful enough to be an attractive prospect for older women... and younger women? Love. Older. Guys.

Indeed. Like I have said in the past, I find the attitude of the women I run into appalling but I am NOT a misogynist: just that the reason for that is that most decent women (and men) I know are happily married even if they pretend they aren't at times :lol:

I sure hope you are right: I have mentioned that when I dress up women practically throw themselves at me but I feel so uncomfortable wearing one especially to pick up friends or dates. My insecurity would be VERY visible in such a situation and I feel it will do more harm than good. I do find I do get along well with teenagers but they are generally naive and just lack the life experience to be good friends and to understand me. I did try online gaming and even though I found most players to be decent, they generally sounded WAY too young to be playing such a Mature title.

I recently joined a very well known volunteer organization that gives me instant respect just for wearing their uniform so cross my fingers that it helps. That's not why I joined of course but if it leads to quality friends all the better!



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14 May 2014, 10:18 pm

Gotta be patient with online games. I've been playing for years and will talk to anyone with respect as long as they have manners, if they don't there are volume switches and mute buttons. Always fun trying to spot fellow Aspies by their monotone voices too! (there are lots). I play with a bunch of people, a couple are in their twenties and there are more than a few actual grandfolk that are older than my parents. They're out there.

What's with the insecurity by the way? (forgive me if you've already detailed it)

I was absolutely crippled by various insecurities until my mid-twenties, in a hole for at least two years while I ridiculed myself and hated the world for allowing myself to be abused by a couple of so-called friends. Eventually I got over it, forgave myself for not murdering them, and resolved to choose my friends a little better in the future. Things improved from there.

While I don't claim to be the most popular of people or some kind of pimp (though I quite fancy myself as one) I think I do spectacularly well for a twisted old Aspie Hermit. If I knew what it was that dragged me out of my antisocial holiday of self-loathing, I'd distil it and put it in a bottle and get FAT from the patronage of good ol' insecure people like yourself!

I might be in poverty (lol) but I hope you get a suitable kick up the arse and get over your insecurities before you get too old.



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15 May 2014, 4:01 am

Just wondering what problems do you have with drinking? I almost feel like you might be more fun to be around if you're slightly tipsy.

Also, for the record, it's rec hockey. No one gives a damn whether you're an undiscovered NHL star or can barely stand on the ice. It's primarily a social experience, so it's pretty much like going to a party and a hockey game breaking out.



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15 May 2014, 7:01 am

Pobbles wrote:
What's with the insecurity by the way? (forgive me if you've already detailed it)

It comes from being not only bullied, but being told daily in school how ugly and unattractive I was and behind reminded constantly about it. Even though I get compliments all the time as an adult, it's almost like the feelings of being unattractive are impossible to shake. It's almost like since almost every girl said it, it must be true. It's paralyzing me from asking a woman out to this day even though I KNOW she won't laugh at me.

Pitabread123 wrote:
Just wondering what problems do you have with drinking? I almost feel like you might be more fun to be around if you're slightly tipsy.

That I am lol I am actually extremely social and most of all polite when I am drinking. I guess it's a combination of seeing alcohol destroy relatives, I don't like the taste, the cost is outrageous and I am obsessed about my appearance (even being underweight). Still, it's not like I can be constantly drunk to be popular. It's almost like I feel like I have to be absolutely perfect in order to make a friend and that's exhausting to say the least.

Quote:
Also, for the record, it's rec hockey. No one gives a damn whether you're an undiscovered NHL star or can barely stand on the ice. It's primarily a social experience, so it's pretty much like going to a party and a hockey game breaking out.

I'm slowly starting to understand that but it goes back to my childhood again. People used to mock me all the time growing up so I become insanely competitive to compensate, almost to try and hide my geekiness. I am trying to scale it back but I feel some days if I don't break a stick or throw it into the stands after a bad game than people might think I didn't try or care.



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15 May 2014, 12:21 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
I suppose this is a semi-rant and could go in the Haven, but I feel totally exhausted and burned out trying to make friends. I have tried being more open and friendly, making eye contact and small talk and all that fun stuff but no matter how well I am treated, every single time I invite someone over they ALWAYS make up some BS excuse. This goes for both males and females and even people I have known for many years.

I don't even talk about my special interests and do listen attentively but I still cannot seem to make any friends. What makes it more frustrating is that I get along with people at work extremely well. I feel like I have tried everything and that nobody will ever even a casual acquaintance. The only 'friend' I have only visits when I drive him to and from and pay for supper. Doesn't sound like much of a friend.

I would really like to know what I am doing wrong and why people show so much interest in me but always turn down invitations and never invite me anyone. Even my hockey buddies almost did that to me recently and I am one of the veteran players! I wish I could post a video of one of these encounters because I cannot figure out why nobody would want to pay me a visit, especially since I so centrally in my city.


Whoa, I know exactly how you feel! I feel like I'm always doing something wrong too, because I never seem to make many friends. Even other Aspies that I have on Facebook seem to have more friends than me, and are even in relationships, and they're as young as me.

Like you, I get along extremely well with the people at work too. Some people there who don't have AS don't get along with everybody and have bitchy arguments or just not talking to someone, but I'm not like that at all, I'm always polite, passive, friendly and just try to be laid-back and happy. I don't go on and on about myself or my special interests, and I don't lack theory of mind so I know what's appropriate to say to someone and what's not.

I even know how to be a perfect friend, and I still seem to fail miserably whilst other people just make friends just like that. Like when I was first in a relationship, I didn't like to announce it on Facebook in case it made somebody else (who also likes me but I don't like him in that way) feel jealous. I know that most other people would just be so happy that they're in a relationship that they would just announce their relationship on Facebook and not care what others might feel, but me I'm always too busy worrying about how they're feeling than actually trying to make myself feel happy and comfortable. Also, when somebody at work did something wrong once, and got told off, she said that she didn't do it, and the manager believed her and walked away. When the manager was out of earshot, the girl turned to me and whispered, ''I did do it really'', then gave a little giggle. I just went ''oh right'' and giggled with her, and so she must have trusted me if she wanted to turn to me and tell me that. But I knew not to go back and tell the manager that, although I easily could of done but I didn't because it's just my nature to judge what I keep to myself and what is OK to tell. So I do know that I am able to consider other people's feelings or just know what I should and should not say, and that also should make me a good friend. But I still don't get friends.

All I have is a woman who is, like, 40 years older than me who's just about the only person who does actually make time to see me and has been my friend for about 4 years now, so at least that gets me out and I have somebody to go about with sometimes. And then there's a girl who is my age who is on the Autism spectrum, but now she has a boyfriend and only wants to be with him and not with me any more. And then my other friends are just married men who hang around me because they fancy me but know they can't actually have me and so just decide to be my friend, which confuses me because some people say ''keep away from all married men'' and others say ''there's nothing wrong with just being friends with them''. That's what I'm just doing, being friends with them. But beggers can't be choosers, as they always say, so that's my motto. If somebody bothers to interact with me in a friendly way then they are my friend. That's how I try to reassure myself into thinking I have more friends.


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15 May 2014, 1:12 pm

Joe90 wrote:
And then my other friends are just married men who hang around me because they fancy me but know they can't actually have me and so just decide to be my friend, which confuses me because some people say ''keep away from all married men'' and others say ''there's nothing wrong with just being friends with them''. That's what I'm just doing, being friends with them. But beggers can't be choosers, as they always say, so that's my motto. If somebody bothers to interact with me in a friendly way then they are my friend. That's how I try to reassure myself into thinking I have more friends.

men of any kind can be dangerous to hang around with.
whether married or single
but in my country a women talking to men also is frowned upon and looked down
and most of the men only talk to me with other intentions
its gets on my nerves and im too scared


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15 May 2014, 1:42 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
It comes from being not only bullied, but being told daily in school how ugly and unattractive I was and behind reminded constantly about it. Even though I get compliments all the time as an adult, it's almost like the feelings of being unattractive are impossible to shake. It's almost like since almost every girl said it, it must be true. It's paralyzing me from asking a woman out to this day even though I KNOW she won't laugh at me.


That's only going to improve if you don't give up, and allow yourself to be rejected without feeling bitter about it. The latter bit is especially difficult and very important. You can either learn from your experiences or you can let them twist you into something ugly.
My insecurities were a gift from my mother, who constantly reminded me how worthless, stupid, and repulsive I was as a child. Not having a good female role model I was understandably something of a misogynist for years, and struggled to accept that any woman would ever love or accept me.

If I can get over that, I'm pretty confident you can do better - with your better looks and better dress sense n'all. :wink:

BTW have you tried having this conversation with someone who you know and can trust not to bullshit you? Are you parents alive / available, or do you have any siblings that know you well? When I need another perspective from someone who I can trust (nay, take perfectly for granted) not to exploit me or have some ulterior motive, I used to speak to my Dad. My eldest little sis is also excellent for this, but then I'm really lucky to have a badass little sis who's as blunt as the broad side of a tonne of bricks.


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15 May 2014, 7:42 pm

Pobbles wrote:
BTW have you tried having this conversation with someone who you know and can trust not to bullshit you? Are you parents alive / available, or do you have any siblings that know you well? When I need another perspective from someone who I can trust (nay, take perfectly for granted) not to exploit me or have some ulterior motive, I used to speak to my Dad. My eldest little sis is also excellent for this, but then I'm really lucky to have a badass little sis who's as blunt as the broad side of a tonne of bricks.

Indeed I have especially with my mother and brother (older and geeky but makes friends effortlessly). Mom says I "say too much about myself "to which I want to say "well, there are many things even YOU do not know about me!" My brother says I try too hard and that scares people away but I fail to see how saying hello, being polite and asking them over after I know them well counts as trying too hard. If I hold back they usually just lose interest in me. Same as how I can do the exact same thing as someone else and get the opposite reaction.

I have also asked married women what I am doing wrong and one replied "that you think you are any different than the average 31 year old male". Well, they all seem to have wives and an active social life so they are obviously doing something differently!



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16 May 2014, 6:31 am

Listen to your family, man.

Do you jabber on too much about yourself? This can give the impression that the speaker is self-centred or very nervous, or in the case of some autistic folk, completely blind to the yawns, groans, and best attempts to change the subject by the listener. This is annoying, I used to be like this. Even though I'm ASD myself I have little patience for those who witter incessantly about themselves without any regard for the listener's sanity.

Speak less, really! Ask more questions, then follow-up with more questions once they've conveyed their answer and you've been able to digest it without interrupting them. There's a knack to getting this right, you don't want the other person to feel like they're being interrogated 8) . If don't always feel that I am interesting, but at least I can be interested.

There's nothing wrong with silence either! One of the great indicators of friendship is when you can both STFU in each other's company and both feel completely at ease.

Forgive me if I seem to be making assumptions about you as a creature BTW, but the responses from your family suggest that I might not be too far off the mark.

Accept that not everybody will like or love you, despite your best efforts. Some people might even think you are weird, they are perfectly entitled to this just as you are regarding them.

Again, I'm not the most popular person in the world or some kind of silver-tongued lady killer - but I must be doing something right. My younger sisters aren't diagnosed and are far better looking and much better conversationalists than I, but they comment on how much easier I make friends, despite me being diagnosed with a neuro disorder that allegedly makes it harder for us to socialise.

I put this down to my attitude, I think. I literally don't give a F what people think about me (unless I'm close to them anyway). Having lots of practice helps too, don't give up on yourself!


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16 May 2014, 6:47 am

Pobbles wrote:
Listen to your family, man.

Do you jabber on too much about yourself? This can give the impression that the speaker is self-centred or very nervous, or in the case of some autistic folk, completely blind to the yawns, groans, and best attempts to change the subject by the listener. This is annoying, I used to be like this. Even though I'm ASD myself I have little patience for those who witter incessantly about themselves without any regard for the listener's sanity.

Speak less, really! Ask more questions, then follow-up with more questions once they've conveyed their answer and you've been able to digest it without interrupting them. There's a knack to getting this right, you don't want the other person to feel like they're being interrogated 8) . If don't always feel that I am interesting, but at least I can be interested.

The problem is I used to be painfully shy and quiet and everybody avoided me. I later found out my silence made them uncomfortable. I did try doing the 'ask questions' things during a date and found that not only did it feel awkward but I got flaked on yet again. Seems that you almost have to be perfect to get it right and of course that makes me shake from nervousness when I think about it.

In my last date I *did* do most of the talking but that's because she didn't have much to say. I now have plenty of specific questions for her now that I had time to relax and think it over but as usual, she pulled a David Copperfield after cancelling date 2 at the last minute.



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16 May 2014, 6:54 am

[quote="GiantHockeyFan"]
The problem is I used to be painfully shy and quiet and everybody avoided me. I later found out my silence made them uncomfortable. I did try doing the 'ask questions' things during a date and found that not only did it feel awkward but I got flaked on yet again. Seems that you almost have to be perfect to get it right and of course that makes me shake from nervousness when I think about it.

In my last date I *did* do most of the talking but that's because she didn't have much to say. I now have plenty of specific questions for her now that I had time to relax and think it over but as usual, she pulled a David Copperfield after cancelling date 2 at the last minute.[/quote
find a introvert to date extrovert want to talk a lot
plus they usually call names and tease a quiet person

find someone just like you who is reserved and quiet


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