What if Obama forged his Birth Certificate?

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Kraichgauer
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22 May 2014, 3:35 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Because it's the thought behind it - blacks wanting to see their people, who have been constatly given the short end of the stick succeed is hardly negative, but the desire to see black americans kept a powerless underclass is. I don't know how I can possibly explain this more clearly to you when you choose to be obstinate.


Ironic much? You're possibly the most obstinate person on this board, which is saying something, and you're arguing against the widely recognized definition of a word, which would take less than .5 seconds on Google to clear up for you. 'Racism' does not suddenly become not racist because you think the intentions behind it are good, it either is or it isn't. Your way allows you to selectively decide what is and is not racist according to what you personally think of the motivations behind it, which is convenient for you, but is not actually how things work.


Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary definition of racism:

"A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial difference produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."
While intent is not mentioned here, it's clear I was right by this definition in applying the tag of racism to those who oppose Obama due to racial prejudice, while the implication clearly is, those who support Obama because he's black, but not because of feelings of racial superiority or inferiority, clearly are not racist.
And if you and I are obstinate, that's only because we are both Aspies, and it comes with the territory. 8)


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zer0netgain
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22 May 2014, 4:54 am

ruveyn wrote:
Obama was born to an American female in Hawaii. That makes him a natural born citizen. End of question.

ruveyn


The question is what if it is proved that that statement is false.



zer0netgain
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22 May 2014, 5:05 am

gamefreak wrote:
Even if Obama's Birth Certificate was forged. How do you know that other presidents didn't have forged certificates.

People just make an issue of it because a]don't like Obama's middle man b) don't like his skin color c] his father was born in Kenya d] he's not a right-wing extremist e]all of the above


There was a basis to question Obama's birth certificate. There was ample evidence to demand proof.

To this day, he won't let people have access. The only "proof" came from the White House, and it has been debunked, but the talking heads have their "experts" on each side making the waters nice and muddy.

There is no question that he attended schools claiming to be Indonesian. He traveled to countries where you could not enter with a US Passport, and you can't have a passport for another nation unless you claim to be a citizen of that nation. There is reason to believe he attended college by claiming to be a foreign student, but those records are sealed, and we can't see them either.

He brought it upon himself. It wasn't "haters" who started it.



sonofghandi
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22 May 2014, 8:36 am

Raptor wrote:
Yes, I think it's safe to say that there are more racist republicans than democrats. Zippity doo dah. :cheers:
That does not mean that the majority of conservatives / republicans are racist.
It also does not mean that there are no racist liberals / democrats.


^This


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sonofghandi
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22 May 2014, 8:56 am

zer0netgain wrote:
gamefreak wrote:
Even if Obama's Birth Certificate was forged. How do you know that other presidents didn't have forged certificates.

People just make an issue of it because a]don't like Obama's middle man b) don't like his skin color c] his father was born in Kenya d] he's not a right-wing extremist e]all of the above


There was a basis to question Obama's birth certificate. There was ample evidence to demand proof.


No. there wasn't. It was a load of fabricated nonsense.

zer0netgain wrote:
To this day, he won't let people have access. The only "proof" came from the White House, and it has been debunked, but the talking heads have their "experts" on each side making the waters nice and muddy.


^100% untrue. His birth certificate was in Chicago available for inspection on request from the beginning and his long form birth certificate was released by the state of Hawaii quite some time ago. And what proof has been actually debunked?

zer0netgain wrote:
There is no question that he attended schools claiming to be Indonesian.


^100% true and 100% irrelevant.

zer0netgain wrote:
He traveled to countries where you could not enter with a US Passport,


Which countries were those exactly? And while you're at it, which countries will not let you enter with a US passport?

zer0netgain wrote:
and you can't have a passport for another nation unless you claim to be a citizen of that nation.


^so what? Hundreds of millions of people across the globe have dual citizenship (which he automatically had from birth to the age of 23 due to his father's citizenship).

zer0netgain wrote:
There is reason to believe he attended college by claiming to be a foreign student,


No, there isn't.

zer0netgain wrote:
but those records are sealed, and we can't see them either.


We can't see them because they don't exist, not because they are sealed. Or is it the Freemasons keeping the lid on this one?

zer0netgain wrote:
He brought it upon himself.


How exactly?

zer0netgain wrote:
It wasn't "haters" who started it.


It was a bunch of Republicans who have no moral qualms about making up anything they want and then "just putting it out there" in order to shift the polls by a percentage point or two. Standard political tactic (Rove and his "Hilary has brain damage" crap is a recent example).

I supposed you are still convinced he is a Muslim as well? And that he is a member of a (christian) religious extremist group in Chicago? And that he is part of the New World Order and the anti-christ and plans to enslave us in sharia law?


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naturalplastic
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22 May 2014, 10:04 am

The OP is really asking two questions. One about his birthplace, and the other about forging a document about his place of birth.

If it were shown that Obama had "faked his birth certificate" that would be forging a document. Thats one issue.

Lets say that they just never found any birth certificate for him at all. All that we had was hearsay, and little more.

Lets say that somehow someone produced evidence that his momma delivered him before she boarded the plane to the USA instead of after. That would show that on a petty technicality he (according to one interpretation) violated a vaguely worded rule in the constitution when we elected him over another guy (John McCain- a military brat born in the Panama Canal Zone) who MAY ALSO have violated the same vaguely worded rule in the constitution (according to some interpretations of that same rule).

If that happened early in his first administration then only the extreme ideologues would give a crap because it would be like learning that a President had once smoke pot when he was 17. No one but the rabidly antiObama would care (rabid for whatever reason- many are clearly racist).

And if it happened tomorrow even the extreme ideologues wouldnt care about his newly revealed Kenyan birth per se because its too late in the day (why lock the barn door after the horse was stolen one and half terms of office ago).

However- the deliberate falsifaction of a document WOULD get Obama in trouble because it would deliberate fraud. Thats always the way it is- the cover up itsself is AlWAYS more damaging than the thing being covered up.



zer0netgain
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23 May 2014, 6:23 am

sonofghandi wrote:

MASS SNIP


What universe were you operating in during 2008? NEVER was his birth certificate made available for inspection. Never did Hawaii release it. Had that been the case, the whole issue would never have come up. The only copy ever released to the public came from the Obama White House. The legal pleadings to compel production from Hawaii's custodian of records stipulated the reasons for why it was needed. The Obama White House released a "birth certificate" to make the issue so political that no court would touch it. So long as they resisted, it granted credibility to the demand for production.



sonofghandi
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23 May 2014, 7:41 am

zer0netgain wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:

MASS SNIP


What universe were you operating in during 2008? NEVER was his birth certificate made available for inspection. Never did Hawaii release it. Had that been the case, the whole issue would never have come up. The only copy ever released to the public came from the Obama White House. The legal pleadings to compel production from Hawaii's custodian of records stipulated the reasons for why it was needed. The Obama White House released a "birth certificate" to make the issue so political that no court would touch it. So long as they resisted, it granted credibility to the demand for production.


For starters, his short form was most definitely available in 2008, and was inspected by staff from Factcheck as well as independently by hundreds of conservative groups who all came to the conclusion that this proved nothing.

Hawaii has strict confidentiality regulations on birth records, but in 2011, Obama was granted a waiver and the long form was released.

In addition, his birth announcement in the newspaper was made public in 2008 during the Democratic primaries, further blasting this baseless garbage out of the water.

2008:
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

2009:
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obama-and-kenya-again/

2010:
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/the-obama-birth-chronicles-chapter-ccxcviii/

2011:
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/indeed-born-in-the-u-s-a/

2012:
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/

But I'm sure all those memes on Facebook are probably more accurate, right?


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23 May 2014, 8:27 am

/\ ... and the Hawaii State Government has - on multiple occasions - confirmed that the birth certificate released from the White House matched the birth certificate in state records.

But nooo... The State of Hawaii must be in on the conspiracy as well...


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Ann2011
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23 May 2014, 9:17 am

I couldn't believe it when I saw this topic posted and I can't believe it's gotten to 5 pages. Those who still question Obama's place of birth should be embarassed. I know politicians play hardball trying to discredit each other, but this one is just silly. He produced the documents now let's move on.



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24 May 2014, 5:33 am

While we are on the topic of presidential eligibility and citizenship... here is an interesting comparison from a recent US poll.

1. When asked if a child born to a US mother and a non-US father inside the US is eligible to run for president, the following percentages say "no":

- 18 percent of Conservatives and 14 percent of Republicans
- 12 percent of Liberals and 9 percent of Democrats.

2. When asked if a child born to a US mother and a non-US father outside the US is eligible to run for president, the following percentages say "no":

- 55 percent of Conservatives and 52 percent of Republicans
- 47 percent of Liberals and 51 percent of Democrats.

3. When asked if Barack Obama is eligible to run for president, the following percentages say "no":

- 50 percent of Conservatives and 55 percent of Republicans
- 16 percent of Liberals and 11 percent of Democrats.

4. When asked if Ted Cruz is eligible to run for president, the following percentages say "no":

- 13 percent of Conservatives and 9 percent of Republicans.
- 26 percent of Liberals and 26 percent of Democrats.

Sources:
http://today.yougov.com/news/2014/05/22 ... n-citizen/
http://today.yougov.com/news/2014/05/23 ... -ted-cruz/
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... Report.pdf (pages 18, 20, 52 and 56)

The stark differences between Republican/Conservative answers in (2) and (4) - more than 40 percentage points for both - are kind of funny...

... as Ted Cruz is born to a US mother and a non-US father outside the US.


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24 May 2014, 8:57 am

GGPViper wrote:
/\ ... and the Hawaii State Government has - on multiple occasions - confirmed that the birth certificate released from the White House matched the birth certificate in state records.

But nooo... The State of Hawaii must be in on the conspiracy as well...


Well obviously the State of Hawaii is controlled by the Rosicrucians, the Rothchildes, and the Reptoids!

The REAL "three R's"!

And the fact that there is no evidence for the conspiracy is... obvious PROOF of the conspiracy!! !! !! !! !! !! !!



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24 May 2014, 12:39 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:

MASS SNIP


What universe were you operating in during 2008? NEVER was his birth certificate made available for inspection. Never did Hawaii release it. Had that been the case, the whole issue would never have come up. The only copy ever released to the public came from the Obama White House. The legal pleadings to compel production from Hawaii's custodian of records stipulated the reasons for why it was needed. The Obama White House released a "birth certificate" to make the issue so political that no court would touch it. So long as they resisted, it granted credibility to the demand for production.


Yeah, I'm sure America, with the largest clandestine intelligence capability on earth, would allow someone to run for president who wasn't eligible.



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27 May 2014, 4:57 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
I couldn't believe it when I saw this topic posted and I can't believe it's gotten to 5 pages. Those who still question Obama's place of birth should be embarassed. I know politicians play hardball trying to discredit each other, but this one is just silly. He produced the documents now let's move on.


The fact remains, no other President would have had his birth place put through so much scrutiny other than for the fact that Obama is our first black President. The racial component to this is undeniable.


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27 May 2014, 6:31 pm

/\ And if we'd elected a republican president that possibly might have been foreign born I'd be willing to bet the left would have taken the same "birther" path in an attempt to dethrone him.


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