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salad
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26 May 2014, 4:02 pm

Why should someone be roasted in hell for eternity just because they didn't adhere to a specific dogma? Just what's the logic behind it. People's beliefs are shaped by a myriad of factors from social framework, relative position and observation, biology, etc. To say that every human should believe in so and so dogma 100% and if you don't you're a wicked sinner is the epitome of BS. It's not so and so's fault that they were raised in this religion, or experienced this, or was molded by this, etc. The equivalence of burning someone for eternity for not believing in a certain dogma while they were alive is arresting someone for believing 2+2=8. Even if it's irrational and stupid, why should someone's simple minded belief, innocent and benign as it is, be the source of unmitigated, eternal torture and languish?

It gets even stupider. The penalty for apostasy is death. WTF?? During the early era of Islam the struggle of Muslims being persecuted for their beliefs is romanticized to honor these brave stalwarts and deranging their persecutors as evil oppressors inhibiting free expression of religion. Now when Islam takes reign in Medina pass a law banning apostasy as a crime punishable by death? Irony....

And yet it gets even stupider. In Islam it says women are deficient in intelligence and dumber than men. When I searched this up on Sunni Forums, a very religious forum which i usually go on, i was more appalled by the assessment of this quote. they were actually arguing that its true. heck, if you want to see the stupidity for yourself, here:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthr ... telligence

And their arguments were so f*****g laughable. They perpetuated the women are inferior to men in math stereotype to prove their point. such stupidity



Last edited by salad on 26 May 2014, 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

YourMajesty
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26 May 2014, 4:04 pm

I'd be so deeply conflicted and messed up if religious... I understand this sentiment, and it makes me wonder how religious people deal with this.


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26 May 2014, 4:11 pm

It is one of those things that makes religions so silly. Most people's religion is an accident of birth. If you are born in certain parts of America you will likely be a devout Christian; similarly if you are born in certain Islamic countries you will likely be a devout Muslim; similarly with Hinduism, Judaism and Buddhism plus all the minor religions and sects around the world. Each of the devout followers proclaim that theirs is the one true religion - yet had they been born elsewhere they would be saying the same things about a different religion! :lol:

The burning in hell thing is a total farce; intended to brainwash people into accepting a given religion for fear of eternal damnation in hell. It is propaganda, pure and simple. There is no afterlife, no heaven no hell. When your brain dies so does your mind, your personality, your memories, everything that counts as "you". Done. Finito. Kaput. The End.


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26 May 2014, 6:20 pm

TallyMan wrote:
It is one of those things that makes religions so silly. Most people's religion is an accident of birth. If you are born in certain parts of America you will likely be a devout Christian; similarly if you are born in certain Islamic countries you will likely be a devout Muslim; similarly with Hinduism, Judaism and Buddhism plus all the minor religions and sects around the world. Each of the devout followers proclaim that theirs is the one true religion - yet had they been born elsewhere they would be saying the same things about a different religion! :lol:

The burning in hell thing is a total farce; intended to brainwash people into accepting a given religion for fear of eternal damnation in hell. It is propaganda, pure and simple. There is no afterlife, no heaven no hell. When your brain dies so does your mind, your personality, your memories, everything that counts as "you". Done. Finito. Kaput. The End.

Well, the problem with hell in Christianity is how it's presented. In the late 19th century, I'd say you were right that it was largely the fear element people bought into that motivated their conversion. That mentality came and went through the 20th century as well, but these days fewer people buy it. And why should they? I don't think God ever meant to "scare the hell out of people," but it's an unfortunate tactic Christian churches have used.

I prefer to think of "hell" as the eternal state of the soul separated from God, with varying descriptions of hell as representing the torment a soul experiences as a consequence of that state. It's an eternal garbage dump/burn pile. The "flame never dies" since the soul isn't something that can be consumed. When it's written "the worm never dies," it refers to an eternal state of decay. It's a reference to the grave.

It has fallen out of vogue within Christian circles to really discuss the reality of hell because it's not something we really have to be afraid of. But we don't want anyone else to be separated eternally from God, either. It's not some motivating bogeyman to keep all us believers in line. But nobody else wants to hear about it, either, so we typically focus on God's desire to reconcile himself with all people who will accept salvation.

And I think the way the concept of hell has been presented traditionally isn't what was originally intended. The traditional image has been a God who is eager and gleeful to torture sinners in hellfire and brimstone. I don't think God "sends" anyone to hell. I think God allows us individually to open or shut the gates of heaven to ourselves and God merely gives us what we want. If an atheist wants nothing but the mere cessation of human life, then that's all he gets.



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26 May 2014, 8:32 pm

Pretty much the more research one does the more one realizes the the 'creed or damnation' variants of monotheism from the middle east are a hot mess. As far as I can tell, especially with the Hebrew version, that was the base level of the text used as population glue and control - the real mystic meaning involved in the scriptures were buried deeper and not stated in a literal manner (to think it's a history book is to cause the bible to collapse in a heap of rubble). Christianity was a Neoplatonist update to the Judaic formula and Islam seems like it was much more a rebellion based on a great deal of poverty and a pagan class at the time who could care less if people starved to death hence the heavy lean on charity in the Quran as well as the early caliphs being okay with Judaism, Christianity, Sabianism, but just not polytheism.



Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 26 May 2014, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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26 May 2014, 8:32 pm

Yes, the biggest sin you might commit in your life is to not believe in God. The rest of your life could be cleaner than an army of saints, but not belieing in the supreme ego will get you thrust into the bowels of their illusory hell for an eternity. Trying to scare people into conforming



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26 May 2014, 8:43 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHH-Pj2Umyc <----- he makes a great point warning he says the f word!


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UmbrellaBirds
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26 May 2014, 9:55 pm

The biggest problem I have with Christianity is original sin, how Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and that sin was so great it was passed down to everyone? I never understood how acquiring knowledge was a sin. I guess it was technically supposed to be disobeying God, but God was asking for it.

I went to a religous private school for two years. They freaked out whenever I said hell or "oh my God." It was funny, actually. We had to confess our sins to a preist twice a year (they were Roman Catholics, they think telling their sins to some random old guy will somehow make them go away), and I considered telling them I didn't believe in God, but I decided not to. It might have been funny to see their reaction though.



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26 May 2014, 10:17 pm

UmbrellaBirds wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Christianity is original sin, how Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and that sin was so great it was passed down to everyone? I never understood how acquiring knowledge was a sin. I guess it was technically supposed to be disobeying God, but God was asking for it.

I went to a religous private school for two years. They freaked out whenever I said hell or "oh my God." It was funny, actually. We had to confess our sins to a preist twice a year (they were Roman Catholics, they think telling their sins to some random old guy will somehow make them go away), and I considered telling them I didn't believe in God, but I decided not to. It might have been funny to see their reaction though.


Well isn't that lofty. As a Muslim (or in this case former/deciding/debating) exposing our sins was in itself a grievous sin.



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27 May 2014, 1:36 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Pretty much the more research one does the more one realizes the the 'creed or damnation' variants of monotheism from the middle east are a hot mess.


I would edit this to read. "Pretty much the more research one does the one realizes that the creed of Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions are a mess.


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27 May 2014, 1:59 am

UmbrellaBirds wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Christianity is original sin, how Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and that sin was so great it was passed down to everyone? I never understood how acquiring knowledge was a sin. I guess it was technically supposed to be disobeying God, but God was asking for it.

I went to a religous private school for two years. They freaked out whenever I said hell or "oh my God." It was funny, actually. We had to confess our sins to a preist twice a year (they were Roman Catholics, they think telling their sins to some random old guy will somehow make them go away), and I considered telling them I didn't believe in God, but I decided not to. It might have been funny to see their reaction though.


Maybe acquiring knowledge leads to the asking of questions. God does not want to be questioned. He wants to be obeyed, worshipped, feared



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27 May 2014, 9:16 pm

UmbrellaBirds wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Christianity is original sin, how Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and that sin was so great it was passed down to everyone? I never understood how acquiring knowledge was a sin. I guess it was technically supposed to be disobeying God, but God was asking for it.
Adam & Eve's sin wasn't desiring knowledge, but going against God's command to gain it. God gave humanity the capacity to sin because He knew we wouldn't be free to truly love Him without it. This video clip sums it up pretty well...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfd_1UAjeIA[/youtube]


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techstepgenr8tion
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27 May 2014, 9:27 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Pretty much the more research one does the more one realizes the the 'creed or damnation' variants of monotheism from the middle east are a hot mess.


I would edit this to read. "Pretty much the more research one does the one realizes that the creed of Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions are a mess.

Nah, I only like the way you say it better when you say it. :)



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28 May 2014, 12:55 am

I am of the same opinion on hell. Even if the fact that mythology is bs was not taken into consideration, religions should be rejected on moral grounds by decent people. How can a decent person believe that someone deserves eternal torture simply for not believing something? It's insanity.