I never know what to do with my daughter

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League_Girl
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03 Jun 2014, 1:38 pm

There was a member in the GAD that posted about her aspie sister bullying her and no one gave support towards her daughter and yeah she was violent too but yet people here are showing support about the OP's daughter's violence and I do no understand the inconsistencies. I see lot of posts here against aspies being violent and then I see posts that show support towards it. All I know is it will continue if it's enabled and allowed and only way to get control over it is to threaten to send them away and make that promise and they will stop. You have to show them you are serious. I don't know if my mother would have been able to send me away because it's not that simple I found out but it still worked because of my ignorance. Heck my mother even said if I was severely autistic she would still send me away if I was violent and it would to get me help and safety comes first. So that told me I would never be allowed to abuse her no matter what condition I have even if I was a schizophrenic or something that caused violence. She would never put up with it so it's not like I had to have something worse to have a free pass for it. So not fair. Life ain't fair I know but yet I am glad for what mom I had. She sure showed me.


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ASDMommyASDKid
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03 Jun 2014, 1:55 pm

League_Girl wrote:
There was a member in the GAD that posted about her aspie sister bullying her and no one gave support towards her daughter and yeah she was violent too but yet people here are showing support about the OP's daughter's violence and I do no understand the inconsistencies. I see lot of posts here against aspies being violent and then I see posts that show support towards it. All I know is it will continue if it's enabled and allowed and only way to get control over it is to threaten to send them away and make that promise and they will stop. You have to show them they are serious. I don't know if my mother would have been able to send me away because it's not that simple I found out but it still worked because of my ignorance. Heck my mother even said if I was severely autistic she would still send me away if I was violent and it would to get me help and safety comes first. So that told me I would never be allowed to abuse her no matter what condition I have even if I was a schizophrenic or something that caused violence. She would never put up with it so it's not like I had to have something worse to have a free pass for it. So not fair. Life ain't fair I know but yet I am glad for what mom I had. She sure showed me.


I don't know about the GAD discussion, or if the same people are in it, so I cannot speak to that or inconsistencies.

Threats don't work on all kids. Also, you don't threaten do something you would not do. So, unless you are really at that point, you shouldn't threaten it. I don't know if your mom was bluffing or not; but just b/c you were able to contain your behavior at that point, doesn't mean others can. I can't speak for other parents, but I would never threaten a thing like that b/c I don't think my son has control over his meltdowns and I would not send him away if he couldn't manage to straighten his deal up just b/c I threatened him.



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03 Jun 2014, 1:59 pm

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She was looking at their rules and one was "you are responsible for your own behaviours." and she said no we're not, people make us act the way we do.


People can make us FEEL a certain way. Our ACTIONS, however, are our own responsibility.
This is a very important lesson she needs to learn. NT abusers often use the same argument your daughter made to justify their behavior. If she could understand that she can't blame other people for her actions, maybe she would stop physically attacking people.



DW_a_mom
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03 Jun 2014, 2:08 pm

League_Girl wrote:
There was a member in the GAD that posted about her aspie sister bullying her and no one gave support towards her daughter and yeah she was violent too but yet people here are showing support about the OP's daughter's violence and I do no understand the inconsistencies. I see lot of posts here against aspies being violent and then I see posts that show support towards it. All I know is it will continue if it's enabled and allowed and only way to get control over it is to threaten to send them away and make that promise and they will stop. You have to show them you are serious. I don't know if my mother would have been able to send me away because it's not that simple I found out but it still worked because of my ignorance. Heck my mother even said if I was severely autistic she would still send me away if I was violent and it would to get me help and safety comes first. So that told me I would never be allowed to abuse her no matter what condition I have even if I was a schizophrenic or something that caused violence. She would never put up with it so it's not like I had to have something worse to have a free pass for it. So not fair. Life ain't fair I know but yet I am glad for what mom I had. She sure showed me.


I think we have better tools now with improved odds for success.

Many young ASD kids are violent but as they learn useful coping and identification tools, the violence can and does end. The protocols we use on this forum have proven quite effective. They aren't easy, and if a child is too unaware they may be impossible to apply, but they should always be tried FIRST, before threats, because threats can break trust. And, well, threats are useless if a child truly has no idea where their own violence comes from, as is often the case with ASD kids.

I feel like I've seen too often how your mother's approach can go wrong. I am glad it seemed to be effective with you, but I would never recommend it to a family because I simply think there are alternatives with a much better chance of meeting all the goals involved.


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DW_a_mom
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03 Jun 2014, 2:12 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
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She was looking at their rules and one was "you are responsible for your own behaviours." and she said no we're not, people make us act the way we do.


People can make us FEEL a certain way. Our ACTIONS, however, are our own responsibility.
This is a very important lesson she needs to learn. NT abusers often use the same argument your daughter made to justify their behavior. If she could understand that she can't blame other people for her actions, maybe she would stop physically attacking people.


Very good point, there is a connection there.

Now that I think about it, I must have literally had hundreds of conversations with my son about why action A from person A did not justify action B from person B. That was truly difficult for him, and society honestly sends some conflicting messages in this area.


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triplemoon18
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03 Jun 2014, 2:44 pm

DW a mom - thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement of how I will make it with my daughter. I cannot wait to reach that day when I realize that I have made it to the other side and that my hard work is paying off. I didn't want her to have so many activities - she signed up for them herself with her best friends and sister. If I had told her she couldn't, it would have caused other problems. I do think that the craziness of the last week or so are getting to her though and I hope with school ending at the end of June, we will have some good days again. I cannot afford a therapist, unfortunately we are a low income family and could not afford even the $100.00 per session for sliding scale fees. Perhaps the guidance counsellor or ASD teachers will be good for her next year.

Linatet - they just diagnosed her in November, so we are on the waiting list for the ABA program. She also got accepted in the aspergers program for high school next year. So there is help - it just takes time to get it. I am in Canada, so the programs are there, but there are extremely long waiting lists.

League Girl - my daughter would not react well to threats and I don't want her to feel abandoned. She really can't control herself at times and feels extremely upset about it afterwards. Before she was diagnosed, she said she wanted to be locked up in a mental institution or a jail and it would be better for her family and how her brain would make her do things. I know she is suffering, I just am having trouble finding out how to help her.

Yippy Skippy - I know my daughter seems like an abusive person and needs her thinking to change. I am not sure it would help with hitting though - when she gets to that point, she is not really there anymore and will not remember most of the meltdown. She is just pure reaction and you could promise her a million dollars or anything and it wouldn't stop her.

I really find it hard to believe that I am having such a hard time with her now. I raised all 3 of my kids the same way and she was really great at following the rules and doing her chores and wasn't so hard as she is now. I guess the teen years are here and we are in for a rough ride. I wonder had we known earlier if it would be easier to deal with her. I also wonder if her sister and I are still coming to terms with her diagnosis and everything we have to do differently now for her.

Like I have no idea how to discipline her now - I was able to take away dessert or video games when she was younger and she would have that for a day or two and then behave really well at school or daycare. But now if I were to take these things away that calm her down, it would not be worth it at all and I don't think it would teach her anything.

It is like the hormones have really made her really regress. She wasn't a violent child until the last year or so.



ASDMommyASDKid
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03 Jun 2014, 3:19 pm

triplemoon18 wrote:
It is like the hormones have really made her really regress. She wasn't a violent child until the last year or so.


It is the stress, too, I bet. Thirteen is a really rough age even for NT girls.



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03 Jun 2014, 3:23 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
I'm usually not one to advocate pharmaceutical solutions, but I think you should look into it if the alternative is living in fear and/or danger. Maybe her doctor could prescribe something for anxiety, which would help her stay calm?


I tend to agree with this, i mean from what you described it sounds like she doesn't like having these meltdowns any more than you or her sister do, so maybe something to help calm her down would be appropriate. Not trying to say oh hey drug your child so they are less trouble but even she would probably be glad to have some relief. I know in my case a lot of my meltdowns even the more vicious seeming ones stem from anxiety or stress overload and I take valium for that...though there are some natural calming remedies but they aren't always as effective.

But yeah aside from that maybe finding healthy outlets for her, which maybe a therapist or whatever could help with....but yeah she could get in trouble hitting people even if it is during meltdowns. I don't think calling the police is a good idea since that can be even more anxiety provoking and they don't always know how to properly handle people with autism or other mental conditions without escalating the situation....I mean as a last resort sometimes you have to but maybe trying medication for that would be a better idea to try first. Also if the issue still persists looking into hospitalization for a while would probably be a better idea than getting police involved.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 03 Jun 2014, 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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03 Jun 2014, 3:25 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
She was looking at their rules and one was "you are responsible for your own behaviours." and she said no we're not, people make us act the way we do.


People can make us FEEL a certain way. Our ACTIONS, however, are our own responsibility.
This is a very important lesson she needs to learn. NT abusers often use the same argument your daughter made to justify their behavior. If she could understand that she can't blame other people for her actions, maybe she would stop physically attacking people.


Very good point, there is a connection there.

Now that I think about it, I must have literally had hundreds of conversations with my son about why action A from person A did not justify action B from person B. That was truly difficult for him, and society honestly sends some conflicting messages in this area.


I remember being that kid. I do not remember being violent toward people, but I do remember that, when I was 14, there were punch marks in the front door, and no rock, tree, tennis ball, or empty beer bottle was safe from my rampages.

It might have been different if I'd had siblings, and hadn't had the blessing of being 1/3 of a mile up a dead-end holler with nothing around to take it out on but trees, rocks, tennis balls, empty beer bottles, and the front door (and, ultimately, it ended up that my third major purchase in life, after a trailer and a couch, was a new front door for my father's house).

I can't imagine what threats would have done. I can imagine, based on how I've reacted to threats that my husband has made, that it WOULD NOT have been a good situation. I think I would have become more frightened, perhaps more outwardly controlled but inwardly more out of control, more depressed, and probably done more drugs of the street variety.

I DO remember having A LOT of long, long talks with Daddy about how people's actions can make you FEEL things, but YOU are responsible for what you CHOOSE to DO with those feelings. I don't think he made much of a big deal out of it; if the truth be told, I don't think he realized that it wasn't a fairly normal part of parenting a teenager (or a pretty common reaction to losing a mother at the age of 11). He just sort of, you know, DID IT. Which is why he's Saint Alan.

I wrote a lot of nasty thoughts down in a journal, just to have a place to get them out of my head. It helped, but if you go that route, I'd recommend totally destroying the written pages every 10 days or so. More than once, people stumbled across my writings and took them the wrong way (in the worst ways). It caused a few flaps-- and this was BEFORE Columbine, before Sandy Hook, before Zero Tolerance, and before Major General Paranoia took command of the theater of operations. It wouldn't be safe nowadays to have those kinds of thoughts hanging around. A journal, or the Internet, is NOT a safe place to vent rage, to abuse sarcasm, or to misuse figurative language. You'd think it would be, but it ain't.


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03 Jun 2014, 3:29 pm

League_Girl wrote:
My mom threatened to send me away if I hit her again so I was forced to stop being violent. She claims it was a hard decision for her. She said safety comes first. It's not to get rid of your child, it's so they can get help and you are safe. It just sounds like to me the OP has tried everything and the daughter refuses because she has AS she thinks everyone has to put up with everything and she isn't obligated to change. That is using her AS as an excuse. Maybe if the OP threatens to send her away, she might stop like I did. Also my son was not violent at age two when he would get upset and neither were my brothers at age two so I find it hard to believe her violence has something to do with her coping as a two year old because if they can learn to stop it when taught through consequences, so can she.


However if you threatened to send a two year old away for throwing fits do you think they'd have the capacity to control themselves and not throw any more fits based on that threat? Aside from that though it is possible to send the child to impatient treatment if its that bad, but the goal should be to get them intensive help so they can reach they point they are safe to be home again not send them away for good, to me that almost would seem like tossing a defective child into the garbage can.

If its meltdown related punishment type consequences are unlikely to really help, that is something that needs medical treatment in my opinion.


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03 Jun 2014, 4:42 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
My mom threatened to send me away if I hit her again so I was forced to stop being violent. She claims it was a hard decision for her. She said safety comes first. It's not to get rid of your child, it's so they can get help and you are safe. It just sounds like to me the OP has tried everything and the daughter refuses because she has AS she thinks everyone has to put up with everything and she isn't obligated to change. That is using her AS as an excuse. Maybe if the OP threatens to send her away, she might stop like I did. Also my son was not violent at age two when he would get upset and neither were my brothers at age two so I find it hard to believe her violence has something to do with her coping as a two year old because if they can learn to stop it when taught through consequences, so can she.


However if you threatened to send a two year old away for throwing fits do you think they'd have the capacity to control themselves and not throw any more fits based on that threat? Aside from that though it is possible to send the child to impatient treatment if its that bad, but the goal should be to get them intensive help so they can reach they point they are safe to be home again not send them away for good, to me that almost would seem like tossing a defective child into the garbage can.

If its meltdown related punishment type consequences are unlikely to really help, that is something that needs medical treatment in my opinion.

OFF-TOPIC: is the cat in your avatar going in or out of the box?



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03 Jun 2014, 4:49 pm

linatet wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
My mom threatened to send me away if I hit her again so I was forced to stop being violent. She claims it was a hard decision for her. She said safety comes first. It's not to get rid of your child, it's so they can get help and you are safe. It just sounds like to me the OP has tried everything and the daughter refuses because she has AS she thinks everyone has to put up with everything and she isn't obligated to change. That is using her AS as an excuse. Maybe if the OP threatens to send her away, she might stop like I did. Also my son was not violent at age two when he would get upset and neither were my brothers at age two so I find it hard to believe her violence has something to do with her coping as a two year old because if they can learn to stop it when taught through consequences, so can she.


However if you threatened to send a two year old away for throwing fits do you think they'd have the capacity to control themselves and not throw any more fits based on that threat? Aside from that though it is possible to send the child to impatient treatment if its that bad, but the goal should be to get them intensive help so they can reach they point they are safe to be home again not send them away for good, to me that almost would seem like tossing a defective child into the garbage can.

If its meltdown related punishment type consequences are unlikely to really help, that is something that needs medical treatment in my opinion.

OFF-TOPIC: is the cat in your avatar going in or out of the box?


I think more through the box since both ends where open, or she's just laying part way in it, lol not really sure I took that picture a while ago.


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DW_a_mom
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03 Jun 2014, 5:08 pm

triplemoon18 wrote:
I didn't want her to have so many activities - she signed up for them herself with her best friends and sister. If I had told her she couldn't, it would have caused other problems.


I think the conversation to have with her before next year is that you think it has become clear she needs more downtime than her sister and best friends, and should be careful signing up for activities in the future. If she can connect how rough the last few months have been to how much she has had going on, she will see the logic in being more cautious in the future and make that choice for herself.


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03 Jun 2014, 6:23 pm

I think your daughter gets scared. To help her, you need to be calm. If you feel you need to call the police, then that's what you need to do.

When I read your posts you sound scared not only for your child but of her. So yes it may upset your daughter if you try to get her hospitalized or call the police. And any mom, any parent would feel guilty for failing to solve the problem. But DO NOT allow your child to continue frightening herself and you and her sister being out of control. If she can control herself, she needs to. If she cannot, and you cannot then you must get whatever help YOU feel she needs. Lane may perceive you to be threatening her, but you're not aiming to threaten, you're a mom and you have to have some limits and teach. And you can't parent right IMO afraid of your child. She needs your calm. I understand many will disagree with me. But as a mom--- no, I think you owe yourself and both your girls doing what it takes to not have everyone living in fear.

And this problem is no one's fault. Not yours, not hers, not her sisters. Not their father's either.

You may not have anything near you, but in some areas there are special programs, sometimes research based near universities, offering therapies for autism. If it's research there are negatives, but the cost is usually minimal or nothing. I know you said you can't pay. Would you want to say what country you live in? Perhaps someone has found some kind of resource that you could use if we know the general location?



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03 Jun 2014, 7:40 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
I know that pretty much no one has ever felt they benefited from residential treatment. It rocks and destroys their world, and they never forgive. It is truly a last resort, and I realize that only the parent can know if they've reached that point where there truly is no other choice.

am in disagreement with that,was institutionalised at nineteen after parents finaly coudnt cope anymore and was taken into care.
personaly believe if it wasnt from having been removed from home woud nnot bbe as independantly minded as am now although am still LFA and still live in residential care.

was detained in a intelectual disability acute hospital last september for four months and even though it was hell in many ways;had gained so many things such as the ability to listen to music again,the very first time at being able to eat food out of bedroom;a routine had always had,the ability to watch tv with sound on-hadnt been able to enjoy tv like that for many years, the ability to tolerate water on skin-which resulted in finaly being able to go swimming-something had never been able to do...going there also almost completely stopped some behaviors of mine;smearing being one and a self injurous behavior.
it even improved diet,up until going there was on ensure plus drinks instead of food.
they used a brutal form of ABA,they used sensory integration and we also had a sweet sensory room but was hardly ever working because someone had smashed it up and it took the NHS weeks to get any parts, music/sound therapy...yes it is something that recommend.
mum and dad were both involved in both detainments as am under the mental capacity act and am not hating them in any manner.

if anything am glad to not be so attached to home because autistics who are left to live their lives with their family,might suddenly find their family die and then be left in life changing situations all at once,not good for people who are extremely attached to their home and routines there.


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03 Jun 2014, 8:07 pm

Two thoughts:
1) it sounds like she may have a co-morbid condition along with the ASD. It doesn't mean that you absolutely have to pursue medication, but it would probably be good to know if she's bipolar, has borderline personality disorder, an anxiety disorder, or something else. Have you thought about getting her evaluated by a psychiatrist?

2) violence can't be tolerated. Period. There have to be some bright, hard lines. Violence against people should result in the loss of something meaningful to her. Every. Single. Time. Give her something else that she can destroy - dolls, pillows, wood blocks, I don't know, anything but something living. There cannot be any passes on this one. Her sister should not have to live in constant fear, risking PSD in the future, because her twin has had such difficulty learning to channel her anger. And neither should you!