Brilliant research Aspie "doesn't want to learn anythin

Page 1 of 2 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

dermaholic
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 9

06 Jun 2014, 1:40 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Agree that the marriage is not over unless you want it to be.

But there seems to be an unwritten subtext about your unhappiness in the OP.

Are there problems? Do the problems extend to his life outside the marriage?

The label doesn't matter, except in so far as the label is a key to his own understanding of himself and your understanding of him.

When people first told me they suspected, I was psychologically incapable of hearing it. I knew I was not normal but had spent a lifetime trying not to let it show. The idea that people could see my differences terrified me. Finally coming to terms with it was liberating and helpful, though also sometimes depressing. It's a complicated business and he is probably at the beginning of a process.

This knowledge will burn at the edges of his awareness until finally he has to know and then he will research it and things will probably get better for both of you in some ways and in other ways stay the same.

Good luck.


YES. The label only matters if acceptance leads to learning, which leads to understanding for both. You said that better than I could have.

And yes, there are some problems, though what they are it is difficult to pinpoint. If things bother him, he doesn't say so. I perceive that he sometimes doesn't know if what is bothering him is something that is reasonable to discuss with someone - so he doesn't tell.

There are so many things.

I am almost certain he is depressed, though he would never say so.

He is from a different country (where arranged marriages still happen) and I was not considered a suitable spouse. His family basically broke off all contact with him after we married. He has been home to visit twice when work travels brought him to that part of the world, but I don't think either was a very warm homecoming.

That would depress me to no end.

I know that he is bothered by how loud our son and I can be. I did buy him some of those Bose noise canceling headphones a few years ago, and they've helped. It hadn't occurred to me that he could wear regular headphones the rest of the time just to reduce the noise pollution in general, but I may suggest that.

Our intimate relationship is lacking. For the past ... long awhile, he has never approached me, only I him. I am certain it's so he never gets rejected, which he sometimes did before - but NEVER being approached starts to make me wonder about myself after awhile. And also makes me want to approach less and less.

Someone else mentioned whether the sleep affects his health - that is difficult to answer. He has never slept well since I've known him, but before we lived together, he could crash when his body was ready and wake when his body was ready and our family life has made that impossible, so he hasn't been getting AS MUCH sleep the last few years. I've noticed the difference in his energy level; but our lifestyle has changed a lot, too. Is it column A, column B, or both? I'm not sure.

Do his problems extend to his life outside the marriage? I think they do. Though he hasn't really accepted a diagnosis, he HAS discovered that I am a good resource for awkward social situations in which he finds himself.

Example:

"The secretary at the doctor's office told me she was going to try out for the Olympic bobsled team. I didn't know what to say."

The secretary at the doctor's office is morbidly obese, and at least 30 years older than most Olympians.

He followed up cautiously, "I found it surprising. I mean no offense, but she doesn't seem to have the, er, body type of an Olympic bobsledder."

I told him she was joking and asked how he replied.

"I told her good luck."

But I can imagine he did this with a somewhat dumbfounded look on his face, and she probably wasn't sure what was missed, either.

I offered him that it was a missed joke, but that if he wanted to be sure, he could follow up next time he saw her. I suggested he ask her how the try-outs went, and pointed out that if she HAD been serious (which I knew she hadn't been), it would have shown interest and been polite. If she HAD been joking, he would have been able to make a joke back. But he was uncomfortable with this.

He also has a colleague with whom he eats lunch regularly. He is NT, I can tell, though I'm pretty sure most of the others in his office are also Aspie. He doesn't know how to relate to "Bill" when Bill talks about emotional things - family, romance, etc. All of these conversations are awkward for him. He doesn't know what's appropriate to ask and what isn't.

We were at a restaurant and our server appeared to me to be transgender. My husband referred to him as "he" and I quietly told him I was pretty sure it was a transgender woman. We VERY discreetly discussed the differences - stature, etc. He finally said, "Can't we just ask?" EEP! No!

These social situations sound like pretty typical problems; but do they become easier for ASD people to navigate with learning and practice, or are they always strange?



FelisIndagatricis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 67

06 Jun 2014, 2:28 pm

dermaholic wrote:
I know that he is bothered by how loud our son and I can be. I did buy him some of those Bose noise canceling headphones a few years ago, and they've helped. It hadn't occurred to me that he could wear regular headphones the rest of the time just to reduce the noise pollution in general, but I may suggest that.


I like using foam earplugs like Hearos. You can get them at hardware, travel, music stores, and pharmacies. They often come with a little plastic case, so you can put them in your pocket and take them with you wherever you go without them being obtrusive.



businezguy
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 119

06 Jun 2014, 2:34 pm

dermaholic wrote:
businezguy wrote:
I just read the following book:

What Men with Asperger Syndrome Want to Know about Women, Dating and Relationships

I think it's right up your alley and I think both of you really need to read it. It will teach your husband about himself, about you, and you can learn about him by reading this book. I highly recommend it.

Your husband is a scientist who I'm sure can appreciate a nice solid list of objectives to check off. This book provides that. Your husband wants to find the patterns in the chaos (sorry, but that's kind of how he views you, kind of like a puzzle), this book can provide him a guideline.

Just in my experience reading this book, I totally did not GET that women want to talk about their day. How many sitcoms have I seen where a woman is upset because the husband didn't ask about her day? But I just didn't get it. This is something women really want! And it's so freakin easy (as long as I'm not distracted doing something else).

I learned that women want to feel pretty and appreciated. With my wife, I always apologized for looking at her and even felt guilty. Not so much because I was some sort of religious nut, but I didn't know the BOUNDARIES. When you don't know the boundaries, how are you supposed to know when you are doing right or wrong? Not only was it okay to look at her and view her as pretty, it helped her self esteem. I know this is all obvious to you was a wife, but I'm trying to point out to you that this was like some sort of revelation to me.

Another thing I didn't realize was when the wife comes home and tells about her day, she doesn't want you to FIX things. This might of been the biggest mind blower for me out of the entire book. Why? Logically, what the heck is the point of talking about your day if you aren't telling it so you can be provided with a solution? Bob broke the copy machine and you saw it, but he denied it in front of the boss? Surely you are asking me how to handle the situation with Bob? It turns out when this happens its because the woman is VENTING. She just wants to know how much you CARE about her. This is a good thing, and a whole lot easier because I'll be snookered if I really know what to do about the Bob situation.

I think your husband will get the same value out of the book he's willing to read it. You'll benefit from the book as well. It's just very eye opening.


I love the book suggestion. Thank you. The roadblock that, right now, seems insurmountable, is that he told me very matter-of-factly that he doesn't want to know anything about Asperger's. He even admitted that this goes against his general principles, as he will generally be eager to learn about any subject that either is interesting to him or pertains to him specifically. He also used the statement, "I just want to be normal."

Though he didn't directly say so, my take-away from these statements is that he doesn't want to have this diagnosis, and therefore does not completely accept it. I perceive that he feels that by researching it, he would be accepting it. He is not ready.

For obvious reasons, I think it's important to accept. I feel our marriage is doomed to failure if we can't learn how to better communicate. We were together for five years prior to marrying, but lived together only one, and living together has proven to be much harder than not.

Right now is a difficult time for us. He has been accepted to a position in another state - I have quit my job to get our house ready to sell, and won't be working (at least immediately) when we move. We've decided that it would be easier for our family if I stay at home for awhile.

We've lived in a small house together for years now. I can see the toll it takes on him. I always try to let my husband sleep as late as he can, because of his chronic insomnia. Our son is very loud (and so am I). In the mornings, I am shushing our son constantly so as not to wake him up. That isn't fair to our son, but it's also not fair to my husband to be awakened every morning by us.

When we move, we MUST have more space. I'm acutely aware of two things - our bedroom needs to be somewhat separate from the kitchen/main living area so the noise in the morning isn't a problem. In addition, his office needs to be a quiet retreat. In order for this to happen, we're going to need to double our square footage. In addition to that, *I* need a decent sized yard (love to garden).

Within our budget, we are in a position where we can either 1) buy an older house that needs updating, has a decent yard, and is close to his work. 2) Buy a newer house close to his work that has NO yard 3) Buy a house that has a decent yard and doesn't need updating, but is quite a drive from work and will leave me a bit isolated (meh...) or 4) Increase our budget to get a decent house with a decent yard close to work.

He has so far told me
"I don't want to commute for 30 minutes"
"I don't want to live through renovations"
"We can only spend XXX"

I told him those things are mutually exclusive. Of all those things, he said, he would rather drive 30 minutes every day than either increase our budget or live through some small to moderate renovation.

I can't understand. In the first place, I don't WANT to be isolated in the middle of nowhere.

In the second place, I REALLY do understand his desire to not live through a renovation. However, I am not talking about a complete home renovation - I'm talking about updating a kitchen or bathroom, replacing carpets, painting, etc. Also, I've suggested that it doesn't need to happen all at once. And I've mentioned to him that I realize the importance of his need to have his own, quiet space - that we should first take care of his office - sound proof, arranged how he liked - and then do the rest of the house. That way, even if he comes home to a mess, he still has a place to go that he can escape.

Maybe someone can help me understand his perspective - would all of you rather drive an extra 45 minutes every single day for possibly the next 30 years instead of live through 6 months of renovation?

Am I being unreasonable?


I'm sorry you are going through all this. You seem like a truly nice lady, and a good, dedicated wife. You aren't being unreasonable at all, you are trying to be supportive.

The cool thing about your husband is when he says something, we don't have to really read between the lines. He's "down to earth" just like we all are. So when he says he wants to be perfectly normal, he really means it.

With that said, he's still going to have a range of feelings like any NT person. In short, he's trying to remain in a state of denial. He doesn't need this, and he doesn't want it. He may now be having feelings of inferiority, and he may also feel that his partner, who is socially superior in every way, has the reigns when it comes the position of power at the moment. He may be physically stronger, but he knows you can run circles around him socially, you could absolutely devastate him. He might have Asperger's, but the guy still has a male ego. This has to be very humbling for him.

You see, when I figured out I most likely have Asperger's, it was something to embrace, something that explained I'm not a "loser", I was born with something that wasn't my fault. I thought about your husband, and why his reaction was so different. Obviously folks with Asperger's have different personalities, so it could be that simple. I doubt that very much.

The difference is, your husband has YOU. He doesn't want to lose you. He wants to go back to the honeymoon period before he knew he had Asperger's. Don't beat yourself up for it, but you going through a list of sarcastic remarks you made and pointing out their real meaning to him must have been very difficult for him to hear. I bet you the experience was so hard for him, his heart started beating fast enough to make his ears ring. IN other words, he probably had temporarily high blood pressure because he was having severe difficulties hearing how little he understands of the social world, of his own spouse who he is most likely greatful for.

I bet he loves you very much, and things would have to get incredibly bad for him to leave you. More then likely you'd have to be the one to leave him, if it came down to that. That's usually the way it worked in an NT/Asperger's relationship. Not only is he going to be loyal to you, as seems to usually be in the nature of an Aspie to be, he's also going to be pragmatic. Besides the fact that he can't lose you, its probably occured to him that if he should lose you, it would be unlikely he'd have the ability to find another partner very easily. You must be a special woman to put up with his crap for so long, he reasons.

To put things into perspective, if he thought you might leave him, and he didn't want you to leave, he might offer to allow you to seek a relationship with an NT man in order to get the intimacy you need, while he turns a blind eye. At least he'd still have you, and he's also be able to ignore dealing with being an Aspie. He could focus on his special interests, but also glean from you the emotional support he needs. I realize this is not what you want, but from a logical point of view it seems to solve all of HIS problems.

I think you might be in a position of power. You could read the book on your own and simply discuss it with him, against his will. Okay, it might make you feel like a heel, and as I've mentioned hearing about this stuff is actually so powerfully emotionally for him, he's probably experiencing an elevated blood pressure. But if the guy has a strong heart and he scores low on the muscle to fat index, he'll live.

What do you think? Do you think he'd leave you? Do you think you're the one in a position of power, even if that's not what you asked for?



businezguy
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 119

06 Jun 2014, 3:05 pm

dermaholic wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Agree that the marriage is not over unless you want it to be.

But there seems to be an unwritten subtext about your unhappiness in the OP.

Are there problems? Do the problems extend to his life outside the marriage?

The label doesn't matter, except in so far as the label is a key to his own understanding of himself and your understanding of him.

When people first told me they suspected, I was psychologically incapable of hearing it. I knew I was not normal but had spent a lifetime trying not to let it show. The idea that people could see my differences terrified me. Finally coming to terms with it was liberating and helpful, though also sometimes depressing. It's a complicated business and he is probably at the beginning of a process.

This knowledge will burn at the edges of his awareness until finally he has to know and then he will research it and things will probably get better for both of you in some ways and in other ways stay the same.

Good luck.


YES. The label only matters if acceptance leads to learning, which leads to understanding for both. You said that better than I could have.

And yes, there are some problems, though what they are it is difficult to pinpoint. If things bother him, he doesn't say so. I perceive that he sometimes doesn't know if what is bothering him is something that is reasonable to discuss with someone - so he doesn't tell.

There are so many things.

I am almost certain he is depressed, though he would never say so.

He is from a different country (where arranged marriages still happen) and I was not considered a suitable spouse. His family basically broke off all contact with him after we married. He has been home to visit twice when work travels brought him to that part of the world, but I don't think either was a very warm homecoming.

That would depress me to no end.

I know that he is bothered by how loud our son and I can be. I did buy him some of those Bose noise canceling headphones a few years ago, and they've helped. It hadn't occurred to me that he could wear regular headphones the rest of the time just to reduce the noise pollution in general, but I may suggest that.

Our intimate relationship is lacking. For the past ... long awhile, he has never approached me, only I him. I am certain it's so he never gets rejected, which he sometimes did before - but NEVER being approached starts to make me wonder about myself after awhile. And also makes me want to approach less and less.

Someone else mentioned whether the sleep affects his health - that is difficult to answer. He has never slept well since I've known him, but before we lived together, he could crash when his body was ready and wake when his body was ready and our family life has made that impossible, so he hasn't been getting AS MUCH sleep the last few years. I've noticed the difference in his energy level; but our lifestyle has changed a lot, too. Is it column A, column B, or both? I'm not sure.

Do his problems extend to his life outside the marriage? I think they do. Though he hasn't really accepted a diagnosis, he HAS discovered that I am a good resource for awkward social situations in which he finds himself.

Example:

"The secretary at the doctor's office told me she was going to try out for the Olympic bobsled team. I didn't know what to say."

The secretary at the doctor's office is morbidly obese, and at least 30 years older than most Olympians.

He followed up cautiously, "I found it surprising. I mean no offense, but she doesn't seem to have the, er, body type of an Olympic bobsledder."

I told him she was joking and asked how he replied.

"I told her good luck."

But I can imagine he did this with a somewhat dumbfounded look on his face, and she probably wasn't sure what was missed, either.

I offered him that it was a missed joke, but that if he wanted to be sure, he could follow up next time he saw her. I suggested he ask her how the try-outs went, and pointed out that if she HAD been serious (which I knew she hadn't been), it would have shown interest and been polite. If she HAD been joking, he would have been able to make a joke back. But he was uncomfortable with this.

He also has a colleague with whom he eats lunch regularly. He is NT, I can tell, though I'm pretty sure most of the others in his office are also Aspie. He doesn't know how to relate to "Bill" when Bill talks about emotional things - family, romance, etc. All of these conversations are awkward for him. He doesn't know what's appropriate to ask and what isn't.

We were at a restaurant and our server appeared to me to be transgender. My husband referred to him as "he" and I quietly told him I was pretty sure it was a transgender woman. We VERY discreetly discussed the differences - stature, etc. He finally said, "Can't we just ask?" EEP! No!

These social situations sound like pretty typical problems; but do they become easier for ASD people to navigate with learning and practice, or are they always strange?


The label matters to him though. If a guy was kidnapped by some terrorists and told they were going to waterboard him, I doubt he'd go, "Well, waterboarding is just a label after all, I'm over it). The label doesn't bring consolation to the man being tortured. Your husband has found out he's an Aspie, but that isn't going to make him understand sarcasm any better, or make his hearing less sensitive, well you get the idea. Right now the label is a prison sentence, and life sentence at that. Who wants to deal with that when, as an Aspie, you have such an inherently good ability to withdraw. Trust me, if you let him, he'll drop the subject and I doubt he'll bring it up again UNLESS intellectual curiosity gets the better part of him. Problem is, it sounds like he already has some special interests to keep him distracted, perhaps including his work.

When you approach him, does he respond? It sounds like he does, which means you aren't the problem. I know you need for him to want you physically as well. He probably already does. But he lacking in self esteem (and here's the interesting part), not because he feels bad about himself as a person, but due to external experiences he's had with his interaction with society. I bet when he has approached you in the past, it wasn't always appropriately, or in the most romantic way possible. Heck, looking at it logically, he'd think, you are married so doesn't that mean he should just be able to have you and you'd expect him to act that way because he's your husband and husbands and wives are intimate. Of course, if you came home from witnessing an upsetting car accident, got it one yourself, etc....well, life happens and it's not as simple as that. There are external factors he's not able to consider because he cannot see things from YOUR perspective. Your mom dies, and he's going to know intellectually that you are upset. But intellectually, without the fundamental ability to actually KNOW how somebody feels, it really becomes a theory like E=MC2. We know that formula to hold some weight, but what does that mean in OUR lives. If you are upset about your mom, what does that really MEAN to him?

The problem with headphones (and I'm surprised nobody has brought this up) is your body is an amazing thing, and it will, in an attempt to overcome its inability to hear, provide more resources to the brain to improve hearing. In other words, when your husband isn't wearing the head phones, his hearing will be more sensitive. I'm not saying you should stop using the headphones, just take that into consideration. This is a temporary phonomena, by the way. The body will stop doing this if it "realizes" it doesn't need to compensate anymore.

I consider myself savy when it comes to understanding sarcasm in the written word, especially. I'm good at writing, and I have good reading comprehension. I'm in the process of reading a book and I read this one section (wish I could find it so I could type out the example) and after reading it I'm going over it in my head trying to understand the obvious contradiction when I realize there isn't a contradiction, the writing was joking.

What I'm getting at is that I PRIDE myself on reading comprehension and understanding sarcasm in the written word. The irony is, I'm not REALLY that good at it. When I understand sarcasm in a book, I think I'm freaking Albert Einstein. Why? Because it's hard for me, like solving a difficult mathematically equation. The difference though is when I solve a difficult mathematically equation, I'm doing something that most other people can't. When I'm understanding the sarcasm in a book, I'm going something somebody with probably below level intelligence could do. But to me it's an accomplishment. I doubt your husband's ability to understand jokes and sarcasm will improve much. Not unless you can find a cure for us. We are all counting on you. No pressure!



Ettina
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,971

06 Jun 2014, 6:33 pm

He's probably just coming to terms with it in his own way. Give him time.



Shadi2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Nov 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,237

06 Jun 2014, 7:55 pm

dermaholic wrote:
Example:

"The secretary at the doctor's office told me she was going to try out for the Olympic bobsled team. I didn't know what to say."

The secretary at the doctor's office is morbidly obese, and at least 30 years older than most Olympians.

He followed up cautiously, "I found it surprising. I mean no offense, but she doesn't seem to have the, er, body type of an Olympic bobsledder."

I told him she was joking and asked how he replied.

"I told her good luck."

But I can imagine he did this with a somewhat dumbfounded look on his face, and she probably wasn't sure what was missed, either.


If everything you said about this woman is true, she was (unknowingly) fishing for insults by saying something like that. She's just lucky he didn't tell her she was too fat and too old (myself I could very well have told her so when I was a bit younger, but I have learned to not say anything when in doubt, in case it would insult the person, and that's probably what your husband did, he thought it was strange, but was very polite about it). And I really don't like this kind of joke anyway, when people are supposed to be making fun of themselves (unless its someone I am really comfortable with and I really know well, like my husband), and then if you don't realise its a joke you don't laugh, while on the other hand if try to inform them that they couldn't do what they said because *reason here* (in your example, woman too fat and too old), or if you laugh too much (because the idea is ridiculous, whether you understood it was a joke or thought they were serious) then they get insulted. Heck even my husband gets insulted once in a while when he makes that kind of joke if I laugh too much.


_________________
That's the way things come clear. All of a sudden. And then you realize how obvious they've been all along. ~Madeleine L'Engle


Shep
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Akron, OH

07 Jun 2014, 3:25 am

dermaholic wrote:
Our intimate relationship is lacking. For the past ... long awhile, he has never approached me, only I him. I am certain it's so he never gets rejected, which he sometimes did before - but NEVER being approached starts to make me wonder about myself after awhile. And also makes me want to approach less and less.
I would talk to him about this. My fiancee's an Aspie as well (she's on here too), and the only reason I try and "take charge" someimes is because I usually get the feeling she's very scared of asking about it. If I had an NT (Neurotypical by the way, i.e. non-autistic) girlfriend, I'd be waiting for her to ask too. As long as she did, I'd get the impression that it's just a matter of "she'll ask when she wants it", not the other way around, and would probably resort to more, erm, "solo" operations (if you get my drift) than she'd be comfortable with me doing. It's entirely possible that he thinks you're not interested as often as you are, and has a very hard time telling when the mood is right, so he avoids asking as long as he knows you're willing to ask. He might be waiting for you, but do remember this: when you do ask, try to make it optional, not mandatory. Sounds a little weird, I know, but guys aren't always "in the mood" believe it or not, so give him the option, but let him decide.

Remember: part of being an Aspie is trouble recognizing facial expressions and body language, so he may not even know you're "in the mood" as often as you are. Maybe if you developed some kind of sign between the two of you that you're interested (like a code word or symbol or something), it would help in this area.

dermaholic wrote:
Someone else mentioned whether the sleep affects his health - that is difficult to answer. He has never slept well since I've known him, but before we lived together, he could crash when his body was ready and wake when his body was ready and our family life has made that impossible, so he hasn't been getting AS MUCH sleep the last few years. I've noticed the difference in his energy level; but our lifestyle has changed a lot, too. Is it column A, column B, or both? I'm not sure.
Sounds like the lifestyle change for sure.

dermaholic wrote:
Do his problems extend to his life outside the marriage? I think they do. Though he hasn't really accepted a diagnosis, he HAS discovered that I am a good resource for awkward social situations in which he finds himself.

Example:

"The secretary at the doctor's office told me she was going to try out for the Olympic bobsled team. I didn't know what to say."

The secretary at the doctor's office is morbidly obese, and at least 30 years older than most Olympians.

He followed up cautiously, "I found it surprising. I mean no offense, but she doesn't seem to have the, er, body type of an Olympic bobsledder."

I told him she was joking and asked how he replied.

"I told her good luck."

But I can imagine he did this with a somewhat dumbfounded look on his face, and she probably wasn't sure what was missed, either.

I offered him that it was a missed joke, but that if he wanted to be sure, he could follow up next time he saw her. I suggested he ask her how the try-outs went, and pointed out that if she HAD been serious (which I knew she hadn't been), it would have shown interest and been polite. If she HAD been joking, he would have been able to make a joke back. But he was uncomfortable with this.
I suspect it's the "make a joke back" part that he's uncomfortable with? Missing humor/sarcasm is a common Aspie trait. Think of it this way: how often does Sheldon make intentional jokes? And how often is he funny just by being him? The only jokes I've seen Sheldon intentionally make are the ones that he actually says are jokes after no one laughs. Some of us just aren't good at humor, and aren't comfortable with it either. Comes with the territory.

dermaholic wrote:
He also has a colleague with whom he eats lunch regularly. He is NT, I can tell, though I'm pretty sure most of the others in his office are also Aspie. He doesn't know how to relate to "Bill" when Bill talks about emotional things - family, romance, etc. All of these conversations are awkward for him. He doesn't know what's appropriate to ask and what isn't.
Same here, probably because emotions aren't as readily grasped by us as they are for NT's. If I were to ask "how are you feeling right now?", you'd have an immediate answer. My answer would be "Nothing". I'm just sitting here without any recognized emotion, so maybe "normal"? I still don't know what to call this. Part of the problem as well I'm sure is that he has a hard time telling what is appropriate to say and what isn't, and doesn't want to cross that line at work.

dermaholic wrote:
We were at a restaurant and our server appeared to me to be transgender. My husband referred to him as "he" and I quietly told him I was pretty sure it was a transgender woman. We VERY discreetly discussed the differences - stature, etc. He finally said, "Can't we just ask?" EEP! No!
News to me! :lol: I always thought you could ask, but I've never met anyone who looked transgender in person, only seen them on TV and whatnot. I once knew a lesbian with very short hair and saw her called "sir", which didn't faze her, but I don't think she was transgender at that point.

It is a tough area distinguishing though, especially if they're partway through the transition and you're not sure which way they're headed. Is it possible that there's a way to ask them without offending them if they're not transgender? Something like "Sir... Ma'am? Sorry, can't tell" or something? I legitimately have no idea how to handle this one myself, you seem better versed at it than both of us :wink:

dermaholic wrote:
These social situations sound like pretty typical problems; but do they become easier for ASD people to navigate with learning and practice, or are they always strange?
They do with the right effort. Maybe it'll help your husband, I'm not sure, but when I was younger, they gave me a chart of cartoonish facial expressions with labels under each one, and the teacher would go over one-on-one with me what each of them meant, what the implications were, etc. It wasn't until I got philosophical that they stopped. (I would ask things like "What makes taboo words taboo anyways? Is there a panel of people that decided this, and what gave them the authority to mandate they not be used? What makes **** a 'swear word,' isn't it entirely subjective?" -- although I'm correct in that different countries see the same issue completley different, I still got a detention for it :lol: ) Nowadays, I can read facial expressions pretty well, and it's helped me a ton. I know a little body language, but only by connecting it to facial expressions. Case in point: when someone crosses their arms while angry or defensive, I've learned to recognize it as a sign of that. What if they're happy and they cross their arms? What does it mean? To this day, I have no idea if it even does mean anything. I'm sure I miss out on a lot more, but that's the biggest one that I'm aware I'm missing out on. Still though, the chart helped tremendously, even though it wasn't until I had a few years for it all to sink in and adapt it to the real world that I finally "got it". Maybe if you practiced with him, it would help.

One last note: your love for him is very obvious, not only in the fact that you're here seeking advice, but also in many other ways. This is NOT the end of your marriage, but rather the start of a new chapter therein. Most of those statistics about Aspie/NT marriages not lasting is due entirely to the NT not knowing how to handle it, or simply not wanting to. You dated him for five years before and never noticed, the only thing that changed is this new awareness of why he is the way he is. He didn't change one bit, he's still the same guy as he was pre-diagnosis, it simply explains his behavior. That's a very good sign, and you two have a son together, an even better sign.

Almost forgot: I personally would rather go through six months of renovations than drive fifteen minutes extra to work every day. That's 30 minutes round-trip per day, or two and a half hours per week! What a waste! I could be (and am) so much more productive with my life by using those hours more effectively, (It's also why I speed when I drive -- the faster I get there, the more time I have available) Renovations on the other hand don't cost me time, just money, although it may be a sensory issue for him.

Best of luck to you, and welcome to the forum! :D



dermaholic
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 9

09 Jun 2014, 9:47 am

dermaholic wrote:
We were at a restaurant and our server appeared to me to be transgender. My husband referred to him as "he" and I quietly told him I was pretty sure it was a transgender woman. We VERY discreetly discussed the differences - stature, etc. He finally said, "Can't we just ask?" EEP! No!

Shep wrote:
News to me! :lol: I always thought you could ask, but I've never met anyone who looked transgender in person, only seen them on TV and whatnot. I once knew a lesbian with very short hair and saw her called "sir", which didn't faze her, but I don't think she was transgender at that point.

It is a tough area distinguishing though, especially if they're partway through the transition and you're not sure which way they're headed. Is it possible that there's a way to ask them without offending them if they're not transgender? Something like "Sir... Ma'am? Sorry, can't tell" or something? I legitimately have no idea how to handle this one myself, you seem better versed at it than both of us :wink:


This is kind of an interesting topic, and one we've only started discussing recently. Since being told he is likely an Aspie, my husband has been more open with me about the awkwardness of social situations for him. We've talked a good bit about what's okay to say, what isn't. What's a taboo topic, what isn't, or when there are special circumstances.

In terms of not being able to tell the gender of a person who is a stranger, I say with confidence it's never okay to ask. It's also not okay to say directly to that person, or to imply, that you can't tell. This can be avoided by, rather than addressing them as "Sir" or "Ma'am," you get their attention by saying, "Excuse me." I would never say you can't tell (to the person directly - if you said it quietly to a close friend/loved one later in private, to ask them if they could tell, that's okay). It would be offensive and/or be likely to hurt that person's feelings. If they are gay, straight, transgender (pre or post-op), their gender and sexuality is likely to be very important identifying part of their life. You would be bringing their very identity into question, and that's hurtful.

Shep wrote:
Almost forgot: I personally would rather go through six months of renovations than drive fifteen minutes extra to work every day. That's 30 minutes round-trip per day, or two and a half hours per week! What a waste! I could be (and am) so much more productive with my life by using those hours more effectively, (It's also why I speed when I drive -- the faster I get there, the more time I have available) Renovations on the other hand don't cost me time, just money, although it may be a sensory issue for him.


Thank you for this feedback. I think this makes sense, too. However, another poster pointed out what should have been obvious to me: new job, new location, new house, new work environment is enough for any person, NT or Aspie, to deal with. Having to deal with renovations when coming home from work is just too much to handle, it's compounded by all the other new things.


Thank you ALL very much. You all have been most helpful; I really appreciate this feedback. This has been my only resource, other than my own psychologist. I have been sworn to secrecy by my husband (a very private person) about his ASD, which I understand. But I'm the type that likes to discuss things with others, it helps me sort out my feelings. Staying quiet is, therefore, hard for me. I didn't tell him that I was joining a forum, but I figured that this kind of anonymity has to be okay. It's going to have to be; I've got to talk to someone.


One of the things that I know will be hardest for him is adjusting to a new work environment. By that I mean both the physical environment, but more so, the social environment of his new place.

He has worked in the same office now for more than 7 years. Colleagues and grad students have come and gone, and his currently office environment is that which - for the most part - supports his need for complete peace and quiet. People have adjusted to the fact that he isn't likely to chat, needs absolute quiet, and shouldn't be bothered in person.

I suspect that a lot of his colleagues also are Aspie, and so this environment works well for many of them. About 2 years ago, a female (who sounds obviously NT) and her all female (NT- appearing) lab moved next to his, and he couldn't believe how much it disrupted his work.

All of a sudden there were people chatting in the kitchen, walking by his desk and wanting to chat, and people organizing potlucks. It has died down some, but I'm fearful about him getting into a work situation with a lot more people like this.

That isn't to say I think all NT people in a work situation will drive him nuts; I've met other colleagues who were NT and he got along fine with. However, they have to meet a certain work ethic criteria and of course, it isn't shared by all.

I'm pretty sure that most new people he meets are going to think he is cold and unfriendly. Of course, this isn't really the case. I wonder if it matters? On one hand, if people think he is cold and unfriendly, they aren't as likely to bother him, which is positive for his productivity. On the other hand, if he becomes rumored to be a bit of a curmudgeon, I could see the potential for people to perhaps be reluctant to request his assistance on a project, which could be damaging to his career.

I'm certain that, over time, people will get used to him and that his work will speak for itself. I'm also pretty sure there are going to be other like-minded people in his new office - I think it's an area of expertise where people with ASD gravitate.

Should I bother trying to give him gentle help with acquainting himself with his new office? I know thinking about this gives him a great deal of anxiety. Or do I just shut up and let it happen naturally? :)



Shep
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Akron, OH

09 Jun 2014, 10:50 am

dermaholic wrote:
In terms of not being able to tell the gender of a person who is a stranger, I say with confidence it's never okay to ask. It's also not okay to say directly to that person, or to imply, that you can't tell. This can be avoided by, rather than addressing them as "Sir" or "Ma'am," you get their attention by saying, "Excuse me." I would never say you can't tell (to the person directly - if you said it quietly to a close friend/loved one later in private, to ask them if they could tell, that's okay). It would be offensive and/or be likely to hurt that person's feelings. If they are gay, straight, transgender (pre or post-op), their gender and sexuality is likely to be very important identifying part of their life. You would be bringing their very identity into question, and that's hurtful.
That's actually very helpful, and something I never knew before. Thanks! :D

dermaholic wrote:
Should I bother trying to give him gentle help with acquainting himself with his new office? I know thinking about this gives him a great deal of anxiety. Or do I just shut up and let it happen naturally? :)
If he's having anxiety, you should definitely comfort him at least. If you can help him get acquainted, that would probably be even better. You mentioned not feeling "up to it" in the bedroom, perhaps this would be a good time to develop a kind of sign that one of the two of you is "in the mood" and practice it. Who knows, maybe he'll start taking charge :wink: