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What should we do with psychopaths?
Mandatory birth brain scans to identify and track them 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
High security units 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Termination (pre or ante natal) 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Sterilisation 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Ban them from any position involving the vulnerable or political power 25%  25%  [ 10 ]
Leave them to their own devicees 53%  53%  [ 21 ]
Total votes : 40

Misslizard
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24 Jun 2014, 11:55 am

If we terminated them who would be left to run the goverment?


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Kraichgauer
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24 Jun 2014, 12:24 pm

Misslizard wrote:
If we terminated them who would be left to run the goverment?


Good point! :lol:


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donnie_darko
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25 Jun 2014, 12:09 am

I see psychopathy as a spectrum. I think many if most humans are capable of torture, rape and even murder in extreme circumstances.



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25 Jun 2014, 4:15 am

donnie_darko wrote:
I see psychopathy as a spectrum. I think many if most humans are capable of torture, rape and even murder in extreme circumstances.


Yes but some derive great pleasure from such acts and experience no remorse in the aftermath. Im not sure what point you're attempting to make


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25 Jun 2014, 2:58 pm

I suppose we could try to set them on a path where they could use their lack of emotion for personal success.

Take surgeons for example. Surgeons could have a competitive edge if they don't have emotions getting in the way.

I guess the key is to give them avenues to use their differences for personal success (after all they are selfish, right?)

I don't think brain scans are accurate enough at this point anyway (?)



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26 Jun 2014, 4:14 am

I just got an email that this thread doesn't exist anymore. Obviously, that's not true.


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Janissy
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26 Jun 2014, 5:53 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I suppose we could try to set them on a path where they could use their lack of emotion for personal success.

Take surgeons for example. Surgeons could have a competitive edge if they don't have emotions getting in the way.

I guess the key is to give them avenues to use their differences for personal success (after all they are selfish, right?)

I don't think brain scans are accurate enough at this point anyway (?)


You are right about surgeons. There's this:

http://www.bakadesuyo.com/2012/11/profe ... ychopaths/


Quote:
1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (Television/Radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergy person
9. Chef
10. Civil servant


And for those looking to potentially avoid working with the least number of psychopaths, here?s the list of occupations with the lowest rates of psychopathy:

1. Care aide
2. Nurse
3. Therapist
4. Craftsperson
5. Beautician/Stylist
6. Charity worker
7. Teacher
8. Creative artist
9. Doctor
10. Accountant


The lowest rate of psychopathy list is almost half made up of health care workers: care aid, nurse, therapist, doctor. Health care is populated by non-psychopaths with one exception: surgeons. There they are in the list of professions that psychopaths gravitate to. And it makes sense. Being a surgeon is probably the most pro-social job that exists for a psychopath. The lack of emotional connection is a positive and as a bonus they get to cut people up just like an axe murderer so long as they sew them back together again.


It's also interesting that "clergy person" is in the "most psychopathic" list whereas those people really should be on the "least psychopathic" list if all was right with the world. A psychopathic surgeon is a net positive (ruthlessly cutting out cancerous tumors). But a psychopathic clergyman just seems more wrong. It's good to see that accountants and teachers aren't that psychopathic though. And it's fine with me if chefs are psychopaths. Gordon Ramsay sure seems like one. But maybe it's not fine with the prep cooks.



Ann2011
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26 Jun 2014, 7:21 am

James Fallon is the author of the book, The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey into the Dark Side of the Brain.

Quote:
?I got to the bottom of the stack, and saw this scan that was obviously pathological,? he says, noting that it showed low activity in certain areas of the frontal and temporal lobes linked to empathy, morality and self-control. Knowing that it belonged to a member of his family, Fallon checked his lab?s PET machine for an error (it was working perfectly fine) and then decided he simply had to break the blinding that prevented him from knowing whose brain was pictured. When he looked up the code, he was greeted by an unsettling revelation: the psychopathic brain pictured in the scan was his own.


Quote:
Why has Fallon been able to temper his behavior, while other people with similar genetics and brain turn violent and end up in prison? Fallon was once a self-proclaimed genetic determinist, but his views on the influence of genes on behavior have evolved. He now believes that his childhood helped prevent him from heading down a scarier path.


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/



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27 Jun 2014, 4:40 am

I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Raptor.
Once we as a society start scanning/testing people and judging them based on a "predisposition" rather than their actions, not only have we crossed the line ethically, but we have also taken the first step along a slippery slope. If psychopaths are to be separated from the rest of society, there's no reason people with other personality disorders should not face the same. What about people predisposed to mental illness? What about autistic people? Where does that leave neurodiversity?
Psychopathy could be dealt with best by social conditions which don't favour psychopathic behaviour, and a culture which doesn't encourage ruthless business decisions or manipulation and lies in politics, and treat selfishness as a virtue (on a sociopolitical, not personal, level).
The best way to deal with psychopaths is not to put them in charge of everything.


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27 Jun 2014, 6:04 am

Ectryon wrote:
This study shows that amongst the rich and powerful psychopathy is quite common.


That may be because psychopaths are well-suited to accumulate money and power and desire more of it.

Therefore, a psychopath could likely be among the wealthy and powerful but not all wealthy and powerful people have psychopathic tendencies.

Also, once you have wealth and power, with all the idle time it produces, it gives over to the tendency to mess with the affairs of others. Work keeps a man busy. When he no longer needs to work, he finds something to occupy his time, and for some reason, the lure of political power and influence is what they find themselves drawn to.



Ectryon
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27 Jun 2014, 4:27 pm

We ought to examine the consequences of leaving psychopaths to their own devices. Harold Shipman Myra Hindley Credit Crunch Genocides. Such consequences are urgent ongoing and worsening. As a utilitarian im inclined to measure the potential for a snowball effect against the hoard of disasters we have faced and face every day due to such people occupying key positions and defining the behaviour model for their entire organisation.

It almost feels like saying: I'd better not treat my fatal disease because it may lead to other types of diseases. Surely the fatal illness merits immediate attention?


Also could someone address this: Would you allow a diagnosed psychopath (Score above 25/30) to mind your children or act as an at home care worker for your elderly relative. If no and you voted to leave psychopaths alone surely your position is contradictory??


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27 Jun 2014, 5:44 pm

Ectryon wrote:
Also could someone address this: Would you allow a diagnosed psychopath (Score above 25/30) to mind your children or act as an at home care worker for your elderly relative.

No.

Quote:
If no and you voted to leave psychopaths alone surely your position is contradictory??

It isn't. Refusing to pre-emptively do something to psychopaths upon diagnosis is not the same as agreeing to hire them for care positions.

Luckily and unsurprisingly, a lot of self-sorting goes on. Upthread I posted a list of the top 10 jobs most likely and least likely to have psychopaths (per somebody's research- it's upthread). The care professions- with the disturbing exception of clergy- are not attractive to psychopaths and the least likely to have psychopaths in them. Nevertheless I couldn't blithely assume that no psychopath would ever be found in such a position and so I would (already do) carefully interview those entrusted with the care of my children and aging parents. Just because I don't want to do anything pre-emptively doesn't mean I would just throw up my hands and put out a Psychopath needed for care position- inquire within sign when looking for a babysitter or home aid.

The best defense for society against being harmed by psychopaths is social sanctions against certain behaviour via laws, regulations and oversight. We need watchers and somebody to watch the watchers. We need police and we need internal affairs departments to also control the control the police and legal sanctions when they step out of bounds. Legal sanctions for stepping out of bounds are our best defense. Going on the offense against people who are staying in-bounds is dangerous and evil.

It is possible to be a pro-social psychopath. See surgeons.

Neurodiversity really does bring value. Autism is not the only form of neurodiversity. Psychopaths do bring value to the table as long as they are kept on a short leash by legal sanctions if they step out of bounds. I wouldn't want to marry one and I wouldn't hire one to be a babysitter or care aid (nor would psychopaths want to hold those jobs, according to somebody's research) but if I ever need a tumor cut out, a psychopathic surgeon will do just fine.

Yes, psychopaths can certainly be horrifying criminals (per your examples). That's why legal sanctions are needed to keep them in bounds. But they aren't all destined for that and it may be the legal and social sanctions that prevents it. Would the world be better off if they didn't ever exist. Weirdly, I don't think it would be. Neurodiversity. It's not just about autism. Like FeralRobot said, you keep them in bounds with social conditions and sanctions.



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27 Jun 2014, 5:49 pm

FeralRobot wrote:
Psychopathy could be dealt with best by social conditions which don't favour psychopathic behaviour, and a culture which doesn't encourage ruthless business decisions or manipulation and lies in politics, and treat selfishness as a virtue (on a sociopolitical, not personal, level).
The best way to deal with psychopaths is not to put them in charge of everything.


Yea, that.



Ectryon
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27 Jun 2014, 5:59 pm

Quote:
The best defense for society against being harmed by psychopaths is social sanctions against certain behaviour via laws, regulations and oversight. We need watchers and somebody to watch the watchers. We need police and we need internal affairs departments to also control the control the police and legal sanctions when they step out of bounds. Legal sanctions for stepping out of bounds are our best defense. Going on the offense against people who are staying in-bounds is dangerous and evil.


Yes but the likelihood of that happening while the positions of power are dominated by a psychopathic culture at the least and a psychopathic psychology at the worst is nil. We have watchdogs and they simply stand idly by for the most part and make feeble protestations.

Also banning people with exceptionally high psychopathic scores from the care industry is not an offensive. We already turn people away if it's clear that their personality is ill suited to the job. A psychopath diagnosis is an indicator that their personality is not suited to that job. Similarly a psychopath should not be given the reigns of an entire nation. OR the nation should be aware that the leader is a psychopath.


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22 Jan 2017, 8:33 pm

Bumped for new relevance.


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