AS/autism and change

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I have a lot of trouble figuring out if I have AS or not, and one of the reasons is because some of the things NT's write about AS are written totally from the point of view of an NT, which of course wouldn't describe why an Aspie would do a particular thing.

One of the things that is supposed to be an Aspie trait is disliking change. In one of the sets of diagnostic criteria(not the DSM-IV; I think it's either the European criteria (IDC-10?) or the Gilberg ones), they mention that one trait is disliking "non-functional change". I take that to mean change that doesn't affect one's well-being, since probably everyone dislikes change for the worse, such as losing a job or getting a rent increase or breaking up with a partner or spouse, or even something minor like a favorite restaurant closing or a favorite show being cancelled.

But what if the person thinks the change is functional, even if it doesn't seem so to an NT that doesn't have anxiety issues?

I've been diagnosed with various anxiety disorders but not AS. But don't many Aspies also have anxiety? I was told by a former schoolmate when I mentioned the idea that I might have AS, that I didn't like change, such as getting my seat moved in the classroom, or having an unexpected class change.

I didn't remember ever having problems with changes that were non-functional or good. But I do remember that I did (and still do) read more into things than I probably should due to anxiety. For instance, I remember not wanting my seat moved away from one of the very few friends I had in that grade, and next to either 1. Some kids who made fun of me or 2. Some popular kids who would talk around me and just ignore me if I tried to join in. If a class time was moved, the only reason I could think of to be worried was that I was unprepared for a class that was held earlier. I would (and still do) also think bad things were going to happen if they had happened once before when something similiar changed.

For instance, my parents were kind of creatures of habit and really set in their ways, especially my dad. There were some things that he didn't do or did only when someone was sick (my mom was seriously ill several times in my childhood & died when I was 11). So whenever he'd do certain things, or certain things were the way they only were when my mom was sick, I'd immediately think she was sick again.

Also if I get something like more responsibilities at work, I get scared that I can't fulfill them rather than thinking that it means they think I'm doing well and maybe that I'll be able to ask for a raise soon based on the increased responsibilities.

I know that all this can be attributed to generalized anxiety disorder or OCD, but I also know a lot of Aspies have more anxiety than some NT's do. (Not that NT"s don't have anxiety disorders too).

So what I'm wondering is, if you dislike change that seems "non-functional" to an NT, do you usually have a reason for it that seems logical and makes sense to you? Or do you just hate the idea of change?

First, I am self diagnosed, but my feelings seem to fit many diagnosed here. I really DO hate the idea of non functional change. I thought EVERYONE did. Of course, if someone is sitting in "my seat" at a restaurant, I will have a different seat. If they are out of "my favorite" food, I may get another. HECK, I move all over and now see LOTS of change, but I don't like it.

Frankly, I think most AS people can live normal lives that don't appear too different. Outside of PA systems, alarms, touchy feely idiots, stupid "managers", and just stupid people, I do FINE and people would generally not notice much difference. They may think I am too quiet on some things, go into too much detail on others, and that my solitude and lack of interest in sports are wierd, but they often appreciate my knowledge.

Steve

First, I am self diagnosed, but my feelings seem to fit many diagnosed here. I really DO hate the idea of non functional change. I thought EVERYONE did. Of course, if someone is sitting in "my seat" at a restaurant, I will have a different seat. If they are out of "my favorite" food, I may get another. HECK, I move all over and now see LOTS of change, but I don't like it.

Frankly, I think most AS people can live normal lives that don't appear too different. Outside of PA systems, alarms, touchy feely idiots, stupid "managers", and just stupid people, I do FINE and people would generally not notice much difference. They may think I am too quiet on some things, go into too much detail on others, and that my solitude and lack of interest in sports are wierd, but they often appreciate my knowledge.

Steve

I don't like non functional change, and yes I do try to rationalize it.

I was dealing with that, all through 2006. I'm doing a lot better, now.

But I actually do feel those feelings about certain types of change--they're not rationalizations. Much non-functional change doesn't bother me, but certain things trigger certain fears, mostly social ones but also fears of death, running out of money, being homeless, getting fired from my job, and other bad things.

For instance, there was a certain part of my job that I hated, but I had to do it because someone had to and I was sitting in the right place in the office to do it. It didn't really have that much to do with the other part of my job and meant I didn't have as much time to do the other part properly. One day, suddenly because two people who worked somewhat together had their job duties totally switched, one of them had to change seats with me so that she could sit next to the other person, and also because she was sitting there she would have to take over that part of my job that I hated.

I was overjoyed at first! They said the change was immediate, and she and I moved our stuff to each other's desk really quickly and it was great. I had to sit on the other side of the office and at first I had no problem at all with that and was happy to have a change. Then I started worrying. What if they took that part of the job away from me because I wasn't doing it well? Then I started worrying about who I was sitting near. What if they didn't like me? What if they had conversations every day and didn't include me? What if they went to lunch together and didn't invite me and I'd feel left out? Then my boss at that time was siitting near me temporarily while some wiring or something was going on in her office--what if she heard me talking on the phone for my job and started criticizing it? Also the owner's fiancee sits next to me--what if she hears me on the phone for my job and criticizes me to her fiance, the owner?

In other words, I was happy for the change at first, then I started worrying about what could go wrong and thinking maybe it meant someething bad about how I did my job (it didn't, but I was worried for awhile about it.)

When I was in school and had a desk change to an "unfriendly" area next to kids that might tease me or ignore me, it seemed functional because instead of sitting next to my best friend I would be sitting next to my worst enemies. But to a teacher or someone who didn't realize that, it seemed like a non-functional change. So I was wondering if anxiety is the reason many Aspies don't like change. I always fear the worst all the time, and I don't know if that's an Aspie trait or an anxiety disorder trait, but sometimes I read something bad into some changes, especially if they seem like they could mean something bad for me.

Well, I don't like things changeing, but can live with it. We choose our seats in class. I always sit at the right-front in some classes and the left-front in others. If that seat is taken, I'll simply move, but not be happy about it.
I've tried somtimes to rationalise this. But for the majority of it I don't need a reason, seeing the tendancy is only mild. I do think it's perhaps because it's easier to see the board, or not so crowded at the front maybe? But I'm not sure.

So it seems like maybe the things I'm describing are more related to anxiety than AS? I'm not saying I don't have AS, just that I don't normally have an abnormal problem with change unless it involves something I'm anxious about and that's probably due to an anxiety disorder, not AS.

Well, here's the way I look at it. For me, speaking about me, I'm very similar to how you described yourself and your anxieties with change; I couldn't have written it, as a matter of fact. I feel that for me, it is an intellectualization that is triggered by some innate, instinctual aversion to change that is in my brain. I'm always a very anxious person, as far back as I can remember. Anxiety is all I know how to interpret some things. I'm like you because I don't know if it has to do with AS or is a separate stripe.

D'oh

Last edited by maldoror on 26 Feb 2007, 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

I do not like ambiguity or unpredicatability, so I suppose in that sense, I don't like change. If there is not a table I like the look of in a favourite cafe, I will simply not bother. If I am forced into change, I will suffer a great deal of stress. If I am warned of something having to change... like my current situation of not knowing if I will be living here from July or having to move elsewhere...I will put off making those changes for as long as possible and then leave myself in a mad panic. I remember as a child and teen, I would get very angry if anything in my room was moved or changed. I used to be seething inside often when my mother would intrude to polish my shelves.

Hi! As far as change goes it takes me a long time to adjust to it but I can adjust. Surprises drive me crazy. Changes in my schedule leave me feeling lost and not knowing what to do. Still, despite it all I function fairly well at my job. Maybe you can find a professional who can diagnose Asperger's for you. Having a diagnosis has helped me to put many things of my life into perspective.

PW

I've been to about 9 doctors (4 were supposed to be experts in autism/AS) and they keep saying I don't have it. I think I do because of my social difficulties, but I don't have enough of the other qualifications. Like with change--I don't mind non-functional change at all unless it somehow triggers one of my anxieties (usually social or about running out of money). I thought that might be an indication that I had another AS trait, but it seems like mine is just from anxiety and if I got rid of the anxiety I'd get rid of the fear.

Like,if my boss decided to change her hairstyle to purple spikes. It would be very out of character for her, but wouldn't bother me and would probably be a source of amusement or wonderment at first. But if she came in and said my job duties were to increase, then I'd immediately start worrying I couldn't handle it.

OK, I just had a really good example.

My boss asked me to archive some project files. This means that these files won't be in the file drawers anymore.

If someone else had to archive them, it wouldn't bother me that they're gone (unless I needed one to do some work on or something). But since I have to take time to physically do them, then they're a pain in the butt until they're done.

If we had to all move cubicles at work, it wouldn't bother me. But if I had to move next to someone who I knew hated me and would maybe sit there and make fun of me all day (there isn't anyone like that here right now that I know, but if there was) then it'd bother me. But being in a different cube in a different part of the office wouldn't bother me and in fact I like to change around like that occasionally, espeically in this job where I don't have a bunch of files at my desk to move. (But on my last job there were 3 cabinets of files to move with me, so it was more difficult! lol)

I don't like having to do the physical work of moving because I am lazy. So I haven't moved from my apartment in a long time. Also I don't have the first & last month's rent, and I'm afraid my credit isn't good enough to get a new place. So I'm afraid to move. But if those barriers were removed or if I somehow found that I liked the physical work of moving, then I'd move fairly often, probably (every few years).

These are not rationalizations, these are how I really feel. I would love a stress-free move, but I'm afraid of the stress and work. Not of the change. If you plunked me down into a new apt. with new furniture & stuff and said "Here, it's yours" I'd love it and wouldn't miss anything.

Alright, it sounds like you are having a lot of anxiety problems, not AS-type problems, but that is just my opinion.

I dislike change. A lot. For me, an AS-type aversion to change is refusing to eat if I cannot sit in the same spot, with the same silverware and place settings and cup because it makes me very uncomfortable, not anxious as in worrying about whether someone stole my blue bowl, but anxious because it is different. Or at school, having to change classes and classrooms and teachers every semester wreaks havoc with my need for constancy and it takes about a month to get used to the change. Or I always wear a specific blue shirt on Mondays and if I can't, then I don't go anywhere. It isn't anxiety, it is a need for control. I always eat the same food at the same time every day. I wear the same clothes every day. I spin around in a circle four times before leaving the house. I don't know WHY I do, I just do, and I HAVE to do it. I can't go anywhere without spinning four times. I don't worry that the house will burn down if I don't spin, it just makes me very uncomfortable (i.e. anxious) if my routine is interrupted. I always drink 8 ounces of grape juice before bed. If I miss my 8 ounces of grape juice, I do not go to bed. (And it has to be grape juice.) Missing the grape juice is a disruption of my routine, and the lack of control makes me very anxious.

And etc., etc., etc. But what I read you describing is WORRY, not about the need for control. Nonfunctional routines are implemented as a form of control, and the lack of control makes me upset. But I do not worry about things like you are describing.

Thanks to you & everyone...after reading all these I can really see the difference now. Yes, I think mine are mainly anxiety-related and I need to get back into therapy for that.