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Uncle
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23 May 2016, 7:25 pm

As i have somewhat mentioned in a post before, its seems funny that the DSM has been following ICD until now, after all the ICD is internationally recognized non profit backed by the world health organisation, then you have DSM that are somewhat a profit entity, selling their bibles, cough cough books to psychiatrists around the world but only really relevant for the US.. We already had one internationally proclaimed organisation, seems why did the US feel like they had to confuse the rest of the world with their own interpretations? and now they wish to change things in a time where more professionals are becoming more aware with more information about said condition, so it goes against all logic to change it to something that in effect follows all the hallmarks of Aspergers, but for children now getting diagnosed/re-diagnosed with SCD dont get ANY insurance coverage!? Where the ICD doesnt recognize SCD condition, to add to that one of the directors that had been updating AS in the past resigned because he saw that the new SCD was brought in on a financial based decision with the insurance companies ( i do have the link to this in my zillions of favorite tabs and will find!)... Then add to that Hardly anyone professionally has heard of SCD or how to deal with it, and i havent seen any evidence yet to show where this information was compiled from to get this decision! I feel its a purely monetary thing and there is even talk of getting rid of the DSM altogether and sticking with ICD and i sure hope this happens, because no matter what it is, when money gets involved people are easily influenced, if you dont believe me, look at our closest neighbor, Autism [email protected]#%ks... People have a hard time diagnosing those on the Asperger's spectrum as it is, now they create something else that even has the professionals blooming confused, just as headway is being made, some selfish prat/s throw a hockey ball on a snooker table and screw things all up!... Theres just too many patterns of negligence to show this change was based on a financial decision.. get rid of DSM and stick with one internationally recognized organisation ICD. Or this will turn into a medical version of a religious war where apparently two sides are fighting for the same thing but with differing opinions and who will suffer? the kids, thats who, but bank balances for some seem more important!... Sorry a bit of a rant but i have been reading some posts from parents, whos doctors have changed their childrens diagnosis to SCD and they dont know what to do because there is no cover, no support, and no one can find any real literature other than the DSM diagnosis. Its appalling! ICD doesnt even recognize SCD instead they say it comes under social and language development disorders that arent associated with the problematic s of ASD..
Whats more, there has been a very good reason DSM has followed behind ICD and thats simply because when a doctor does diagnose you under DSM ( in the US as far as i know anyway) he has to use the codes from ICD, So what logical sense then is it that DSM have jumped the gun and now created their own Diagnosis that cant be corresponded with any of the 68,000 codes the ICD has, simply because its a financial factor! Will change mind if someone could prove otherwise :) ( edit: sorry shouldn't really be a smiley face, but at least wanted a happy ending).

PS. if you want to know the ICD code is:
F80.89



AllisonWonderland
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23 May 2016, 8:55 pm

I see a speech language pathologist for SCD. I bring in examples of times that I failed and we figure out what to do in similar situations in the future. We decide how to word things so they aren't so blunt. We figure out how I'm supposed to act in upcoming social situations. If there's a grad student in the office I have to make small talk with them and the SLP so I can learn proper small talk. The things I do for treatment with a diagnosis of SCD are the same things an adult with ASD would do for treatment in regards to the social issues.



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23 May 2016, 10:33 pm

Thanks for coming back to tell us about your treatment. :) Does the SLP use some sort of treatment plan, or is it up to the client to bring examples?

Also, that's terrible about the parents not getting services for their kids. The diagnosis shouldn't matter so much if the deficits are there.



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23 May 2016, 11:13 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
AllisonWonderland wrote:
She didn't mention AS criteria specifically. When I asked why it wasn't ASD we went through the DSM5 criteria. She said something about it being AS but that it's gone now.


She's wrong; you couldn't have AS by meeting only the social criteria of autism.


There are some technical differences with the Class B criteria between DSM IV and DSM V, so it's entirely possible to meet both SCD and AS (IV), but not ASD.


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24 May 2016, 12:11 am

According to the new DSM, SCD can only be diagnosed if there is no restrictive and repetitive behaviors but what if someone had that but they didn't meet enough of the social and communication part in the ASD criteria? What if they did meet enough in the second part but not enough in the first part? Would they be in between labels and be an NT with ASD traits?


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ZombieBrideXD
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24 May 2016, 12:40 am

AllisonWonderland wrote:
I have at least one of the other four ASD things for sure but she didn't think the other three were severe enough. She said stimming only counts if it interferes directly with activities you're trying to accomplish. My "special interest" would be movies/shows but that's not odd (everyone watches movies). And I don't react to change by lying on the floor screaming. She seemed to have a more textbook idea of autism. More like Rain Man I guess.


She actually does bring up a fair point, if the behaviours are not maladaptive, unjustified, disturbing and atypical then it's NOT a symptom.

Stimming isn't called stimming unless you depend on it. If you don't stim and it results in a meltdown- it's a stim.

Special interests are usually way more intense then just "I like movies" and usually it's way more specific, such as a single movie or a single director.

The only thing I disagree with is the change thing. I do react this way to change however my autistic friend does NOT. He reacts to change typically. I sometimes become suicidal when my setting and routine changes.

For the most part I agree with her, how do you feel about your diagnoses?


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Ganondox
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24 May 2016, 3:27 am

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
AllisonWonderland wrote:
I have at least one of the other four ASD things for sure but she didn't think the other three were severe enough. She said stimming only counts if it interferes directly with activities you're trying to accomplish. My "special interest" would be movies/shows but that's not odd (everyone watches movies). And I don't react to change by lying on the floor screaming. She seemed to have a more textbook idea of autism. More like Rain Man I guess.


She actually does bring up a fair point, if the behaviours are not maladaptive, unjustified, disturbing and atypical then it's NOT a symptom.

Stimming isn't called stimming unless you depend on it. If you don't stim and it results in a meltdown- it's a stim.

Special interests are usually way more intense then just "I like movies" and usually it's way more specific, such as a single movie or a single director.

The only thing I disagree with is the change thing. I do react this way to change however my autistic friend does NOT. He reacts to change typically. I sometimes become suicidal when my setting and routine changes.

For the most part I agree with her, how do you feel about your diagnoses?


If you define it that way, than I definitely do not meet the DSM V criteria for AS. However, I'm definately autistic, it's just a bit more slippery than the DSM can check for if taken literally.


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24 May 2016, 3:51 am

Ganondox wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
AllisonWonderland wrote:
I have at least one of the other four ASD things for sure but she didn't think the other three were severe enough. She said stimming only counts if it interferes directly with activities you're trying to accomplish. My "special interest" would be movies/shows but that's not odd (everyone watches movies). And I don't react to change by lying on the floor screaming. She seemed to have a more textbook idea of autism. More like Rain Man I guess.


She actually does bring up a fair point, if the behaviours are not maladaptive, unjustified, disturbing and atypical then it's NOT a symptom.

Stimming isn't called stimming unless you depend on it. If you don't stim and it results in a meltdown- it's a stim.

Special interests are usually way more intense then just "I like movies" and usually it's way more specific, such as a single movie or a single director.

The only thing I disagree with is the change thing. I do react this way to change however my autistic friend does NOT. He reacts to change typically. I sometimes become suicidal when my setting and routine changes.

For the most part I agree with her, how do you feel about your diagnoses?


If you define it that way, than I definitely do not meet the DSM V criteria for AS. However, I'm definately autistic, it's just a bit more slippery than the DSM can check for if taken literally.



I feel she is a little misinformed, stimming could be anything, like leg bouncing, or even pacing,or a squishy ball in the hand, or a bunch of car keys, or stroking your lip because it feels silky smooth, staring at lights or fans, mouth movements like a yawn type movement, blinking etc I dont think these things result in severely impeding on activities, if anything they would often help someone on the spectrum concentrate more. Anything that feels a form of relaxation, some are mild some are sever (and may need to stim in a safe private setting), sounds more like she is getting mixed up with interests!
Also might be worth asking her to define the word ""SPECTRUM"". !



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24 May 2016, 9:56 am

I am in Canada and my psychologist who assessed me last year just used the DSM IV instead to diagnose me with Asperger's. I haven't had any issue with doctors accepting that diagnosis.


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24 May 2016, 11:12 am

As long as nobody knows the causes of autism, and it presents in so many different ways, it makes sense to put every case into a large bucket diagnosis like Autism Spectrum Disorder. Splitting it into subgroups might be useful as soon as researchers know what they are dealing with, but in the meantime it might be more practical for everyone if the US were to follow the international system.

I just read some newspaper story about a study of autistic genes, which claimed that there is no cutoff point, no clear demarcation between autistic and non-autistic. If so, the defining question is the same as for every mental illness; does it interfere with normal life and happiness or not? Which means that life circumstances and health will be a big factor for people near the cutoff point.

Also, I see one really useful thing about the Asperger's diagnosis. It is not possible for every NT in the world to become and expert autism and its many ways. If "Aspergers" is shorthand for "troubled, but probably able to hold down a job", it is hardly scientific, but a very useful label to keep from being shunted out of working life by people who think you are Rain Man if you say you are autistic. Or who doubt your autism because you seem too NT.



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24 May 2016, 11:34 am

Wow there's a lot of responses. I wish this forum were set up like Reddit so you could directly respond to one statement. I'm not sure which are directed at me but here goes.

I had a two-hour assessment at the beginning and a report was made based on that. The SLP knows me now so she can anticipate things I'll have a problem with or how I'm likely to respond.

Every single behavior you have doesn't need a diagnosis. Some things can be "abnormal" and just be left at that. If you're between labels, the most appropriate one is chosen. Sometimes the label doesn't matter.

I'm not saying that I have a special interest. At the time, movies/TV shows was my main hobby so if I had to have a special interest it would have been that. I know better than to drop to the floor in a public place. I've learned to stifle the feeling as best as possible until I'm alone where I can flip out. I'm fine with the diagnosis. The information available is for children so adults are left out like when Asperger's was introduced. The label doesn't matter; the treatment for SCD and ASD are the same in regards to social symptoms. If someone were to ask why I was such a weirdo I'd say, "I have a communication disorder similar to Asperger's."

With my insurance, diagnoses have to be made from the current version of the DSM so Asperger's isn't an option anymore.



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24 May 2016, 11:48 am

Quote:
If you're between labels, the most appropriate one is chosen. Sometimes the label doesn't matter.



So the rules get bent then. Stupid criterias. That is why I despise them. I had an online friend tell me that if you have symptoms but didn't have enough for a diagnoses but still got that diagnoses, you're a fraud. I felt that was unfair because people are supposed to suffer then and not get help just because they don't have enough symptoms that impair them? I guess we can make up You Suck Syndrome aka Alien Syndrome or Bad Luck syndrome. Too bad we all need labels to get the help we need instead of by symptoms. At least you don't need one when you go see a psychologist or a psychiatrist but you need one for school, for voc rehab and all. And what about for getting on disability? I hear you can still get on it if you are a slow learner and it disables you but you would have to prove you are not able to work due to below average intelligence. But I also find it strange that a slow learner is considered normal and doesn't qualify as a disability in the states but it does in Sweden and Netherlands.

I hate how people get so caught up on labels and go all black and white about it "You either have it or you don't" and saying how you need to meet the criteria to have it. It's like people think if you have symptoms, you're okay.


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24 May 2016, 12:07 pm

Quote:
Too bad we all need labels to get the help we need instead of by symptoms.


The label groups a set of symptoms together so they're easier to identify. If someone comes in with ASD, there's a general picture of how the person may present. If you had to list each single symptom it would be ridiculous. Being a slow learner does qualify as a disability; "slow learner" is just the wrong label.
Also, "diagnoses" is plural like dogs while "diagnosis" is singular like dog.



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24 May 2016, 12:11 pm

AllisonWonderland wrote:
Quote:
Too bad we all need labels to get the help we need instead of by symptoms.


The label groups a set of symptoms together so they're easier to identify. If someone comes in with ASD, there's a general picture of how the person may present. If you had to list each single symptom it would be ridiculous. Being a slow learner does qualify as a disability; "slow learner" is just the wrong label.
Also, "diagnoses" is plural like dogs while "diagnosis" is singular like dog.



It says on lot of web pages that below average intelligence isn't considered a disability nor are they covered under the ADA and they do not qualify for special education. Another word for it is borderline intellectual functioning.


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24 May 2016, 12:27 pm

AllisonWonderland wrote:
Every single behavior you have doesn't need a diagnosis. Some things can be "abnormal" and just be left at that. If you're between labels, the most appropriate one is chosen. Sometimes the label doesn't matter.


Of course. If you have a good support system, or your problems are mild. For a lot of people, children in particular, an imprecise or partial diagnosis might mean they get help for some things but not for other things which are crucial for them to function and to get an education..

For ex., Sweden has been experimenting with standardized sick leaves, wherein sick people are allocated a certain number of days to recover from whatever ails them before returning to work. Any doctor worth his salt will tell you that these things are very individual, depending on other health conditions, lifestyle, family support, and first and foremost genes and age. In mass systems, cost cutting is a huge priority, and so a precise diagnosis becomes extremely important to secure services.

I agree that overdiagnosing people is not helpful, and that not everything has to be fixed - the logical conclusion to that is turning us all into clones of each other. But a bunch of splinter diagnoses is a classic case of divide and conquer.

If tomorrow someone told me I was not even remotely autistic, then I guess I'd say I'm an NT with a lot in common with autistic people. People with the same problems need to stick together, never mind the labels.