The surprising body part that could be causing Autism

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KC73
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29 Jun 2014, 4:33 pm

Temple Gradins large visual cortex might be completely seperate from her autism. There are non autistics with overdeveloped visual cortexs too, and people with brain differences of various kinds throughout the NT and autistic communities. These differences are how we know which bits of the brain correspond to different abilities and behaviours. But the brain is a hugely complex living organism, not a static model, and so far no template has been found for the "real autistic brain" thats being talked about as if its a real thing.

And the "real autism versus not real" argument against the gut and diet causes is a bit silly. Because theres no way of knowing whether someone has "an autistic bran" or has autistic symptoms with a "normal" brain because of gut stuff until youve properly treated the gut to find out if symptoms lessen. and proper treatment is not merely eating "healthily" or giving up dairy/sugar whatever. This is science, its more complicated than stop eating x or eat y, and its weird that people are arguing for "science" but then scoffing because this diet stuff isnt "simple enough" for them. And none of the people on here who are sure their brain is different can actually prove that as a fact. So if you have an autistic child who might be having these symptoms because of gut issues, isnt it cruel to refuse to treat them just through fear their autism might go away? Is fighting for an identity really worth rejecting knowledge that could lessen difficult symptoms?



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29 Jun 2014, 4:34 pm

I always thought Autism was caused by the wrong sperm getting into the egg.


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29 Jun 2014, 4:35 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
And there are hundreds if not thousands of people who believe in ghosts.

Doesn't mean I take them seriously, either.


...the truth is out there.

:)


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29 Jun 2014, 4:37 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And there are hundreds if not thousands of people who believe in ghosts.

Doesn't mean I take them seriously, either.


...the truth is out there.

:)


Touche. :wink:


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29 Jun 2014, 4:44 pm

KC73 wrote:
Temple Gradins large visual cortex might be completely seperate from her autism. There are non autistics with overdeveloped visual cortexs too, and people with brain differences of various kinds throughout the NT and autistic communities. These differences are how we know which bits of the brain correspond to different abilities and behaviours. But the brain is a hugely complex living organism, not a static model, and so far no template has been found for the "real autistic brain" thats being talked about as if its a real thing.

And the "real autism versus not real" argument against the gut and diet causes is a bit silly. Because theres no way of knowing whether someone has "an autistic bran" or has autistic symptoms with a "normal" brain because of gut stuff until youve properly treated the gut to find out if symptoms lessen. and proper treatment is not merely eating "healthily" or giving up dairy/sugar whatever. This is science, its more complicated than stop eating x or eat y, and its weird that people are arguing for "science" but then scoffing because this diet stuff isnt "simple enough" for them. And none of the people on here who are sure their brain is different can actually prove that as a fact. So if you have an autistic child who might be having these symptoms because of gut issues, isnt it cruel to refuse to treat them just through fear their autism might go away? Is fighting for an identity really worth rejecting knowledge that could lessen difficult symptoms?


I'm not actually against the "diet" thing.

At the moment, the idea's just not quite far enough along yet for me to jump on board. As far as the "real v. not real autism" aspect, I suspect that what is currently considered "autism" is actually a variety of conditions with similar presentations; therefore, I find it within the realm of possibility that there's a strain that's caused/affected by gut issues.

In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


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29 Jun 2014, 4:59 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Shadi2:

I've shared my story in the link in my signature. I've included quite a bit in the OP and discussion that follows about what symptoms I had and how things have changed since.

I find your comments somewhat insulting. You're suggesting that the autism symptoms I've experienced my entire life, that are completely textbook as per Dr. Attwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome," were somehow imaginary vs. real. That couldn't be further from the truth.

As per the info in the AutismOne Conference topics, 90% of those on the spectrum have "tummy troubles," which to me suggests that the vast majority of autistics can in fact be treated via improving digestive health. These are not "fake," autistics. These are people diagnosed with autism based on signs/symptoms/traits of autism. From any research I've done, having your brain scanned and conclusively determining brain structure differences is not a diagnostic tool nor criteria for autism.


I honestly don't understand why you feel insulted by my comments, it is insulting to you when I say that your symptoms of Autism might have been caused by a chemical imbalance (or whatever reason), as opposed to telling you that your symptoms were caused by actual differences in your brain? I truly and honestly don't understand how it is insulting. Would it not be good news for you if someone told you that your brain is perfectly normal?

And I don't understand why you keep saying that I said your symptoms were "imaginary", because I never said that, I never implied that, and I never even thought that. I never said that you "imagined" the symptoms, I said the symptoms were possibly caused by a chemical(s) reaction(s) in your brain, not that they were "imaginary".

About the "tummy troubles", I wonder what is the percentage of people who have tummy troubles in the general population. Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, these tummy troubles may be due to stress caused by certain impairments, and other people's reactions or attitude towards autistic people. Many situations can be very stressing.

Also as I mentioned, maybe this diet can help other people, which is great if it does, and I understand that your intentions are good, but what bothers me is that you seem to believe that because this diet helped you it will help everyone else (a few of my aunts did that when they were on an algae diet, it was also the "miracle" cure), while you don't even know what causes another person's Autism, you don't know if they were born that way, or if the signs of Autism appeared later, and you don't actually know what caused your own symptoms either, you only know that a diet helped you. Also the brain is like any other part of your body, i.e. everyone is different, every brain is different. For example, some people are born with 8 toes instead of 10, and a diet won't suddenly make new toes grow, but if you had a toe that is present but was constantly numb then maybe a medication and/or diet will allow your body to heal and you will feel your toe again.


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Last edited by Shadi2 on 29 Jun 2014, 5:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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29 Jun 2014, 5:00 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


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29 Jun 2014, 5:35 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


Thanks, I'll look into it.


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goldfish21
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29 Jun 2014, 5:48 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


Thanks, I'll look into it.


...I suppose those outside of certain social circles or having never had any interest in mycology have no idea what Ecuador Cubensis are. They're a strain of psilocybin (aka magic) mushroom. So, if the visual-spatial perception improvement you seek is of the Super Mario Bros. variety, then by all means, have at 'er & don't forget to eat dark chocolate along with them for it's MOAI effects on the brain that enhance the effects of psilocybin.

But otherwise I was joking. :)


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29 Jun 2014, 6:03 pm

Shadi2 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Shadi2:

I've shared my story in the link in my signature. I've included quite a bit in the OP and discussion that follows about what symptoms I had and how things have changed since.

I find your comments somewhat insulting. You're suggesting that the autism symptoms I've experienced my entire life, that are completely textbook as per Dr. Attwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome," were somehow imaginary vs. real. That couldn't be further from the truth.

As per the info in the AutismOne Conference topics, 90% of those on the spectrum have "tummy troubles," which to me suggests that the vast majority of autistics can in fact be treated via improving digestive health. These are not "fake," autistics. These are people diagnosed with autism based on signs/symptoms/traits of autism. From any research I've done, having your brain scanned and conclusively determining brain structure differences is not a diagnostic tool nor criteria for autism.


I honestly don't understand why you feel insulted by my comments, it is insulting to you when I say that your symptoms of Autism might have been caused by a chemical imbalance (or whatever reason), as opposed to telling you that your symptoms were caused by actual differences in your brain? I truly and honestly don't understand how it is insulting. Would it not be good news for you if someone told you that your brain is perfectly normal?

And I don't understand why you keep saying that I said your symptoms were "imaginary", because I never said that, I never implied that, and I never even thought that. I never said that you "imagined" the symptoms, I said the symptoms were possibly caused by a chemical(s) reaction(s) in your brain, not that they were "imaginary".

About the "tummy troubles", I wonder what is the percentage of people who have tummy troubles in the general population.


Because you are referring to confirmed brain scan diagnosis of structural differences in the brain as "real autism," and the textbook autism symptoms I've experienced all my life as somehow "not real autism." I assure you that my life's experiences were absolutely textbook autism as per Dr. Attwood's book, and that my symptoms have been largely alleviated by the diet and herbal protocol I've followed.

I've never read about any such differentiation besides in your posts. Further, I've never heard of brain scans like these being used as a diagnostic tool to confirm an autism diagnosis. This is because it isn't done. An expert psychiatrist would do a verbal interview & behavioural diagnosis, and possibly rely on answers to written questionnaires and such, in order to give someone a diagnosis. I can all but guarantee that everyone on these forums with official diagnoses will likely state that their diagnosis was conversational/observational & possibly included a written component but I very highly doubt anyone will say they had their brain scanned and that brain structures were analyzed and compared to Temple Grandin's in order to receive a diagnosis as autistic.

I have no idea whether my brain structure is different or not. I've never had my brain scanned. As per the thread in my sig, I'm certain that autism symptoms are caused by chemical imbalances. I've referred to this as a "food chemical induced drug trip," but now with further information it may also be a bacteria generated chemical induced drug trip in addition to food chemicals. I'm not offended in the least bit by you calling my symptoms the result of a chemical imbalance. Everything is chemicals/matter, and if they're not in balance things aren't quite right.. so, pretty well every neurological disorder could be called a chemical imbalance, really.

By stating that only those with confirmed brain structure differences have "real autism," you're implying that anyone without such a visual confirmation's autism is somehow not real. That's a bit insulting and offensive, as I assure you my and others symptoms are very real, regardless of the root cause of them. At that, it's unknown whether there are multiple causes of the same autism symptoms or not, and since the diagnosis is symptomatic & behavioural vs. brain scan dependant, every case is just as real as the next.


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29 Jun 2014, 6:28 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Because you are referring to confirmed brain scan diagnosis of structural differences in the brain as "real autism," and the textbook autism symptoms I've experienced all my life as somehow "not real autism." I assure you that my life's experiences were absolutely textbook autism as per Dr. Attwood's book, and that my symptoms have been largely alleviated by the diet and herbal protocol I've followed.


Just read my 2nd post, I explained why I used the word "real", I just meant that your brain is probably "normal", as opposed to people who were born with an autistic brain.

Quote:
I've never read about any such differentiation besides in your posts. Further, I've never heard of brain scans like these being used as a diagnostic tool to confirm an autism diagnosis. This is because it isn't done. An expert psychiatrist would do a verbal interview & behavioural diagnosis, and possibly rely on answers to written questionnaires and such, in order to give someone a diagnosis. I can all but guarantee that everyone on these forums with official diagnoses will likely state that their diagnosis was conversational/observational & possibly included a written component but I very highly doubt anyone will say they had their brain scanned and that brain structures were analyzed and compared to Temple Grandin's in order to receive a diagnosis as autistic.


Again you extrapolated and misunderstood my statements. I never said that scans of the brain were used as a diagnostic tool . What I did say, is that the fact that certain areas of the brain are "overdevelopped" while others are "underdevelopped" is visible on scans of Temple Grandin and Daniel Tammet's brains (and many other people). I also said that one day science might be advanced enough to do all the tests possible to determine the cause of Autism in each person (including brain scans).

Quote:
I have no idea whether my brain structure is different or not. I've never had my brain scanned. As per the thread in my sig, I'm certain that autism symptoms are caused by chemical imbalances. I've referred to this as a "food chemical induced drug trip," but now with further information it may also be a bacteria generated chemical induced drug trip in addition to food chemicals. I'm not offended in the least bit by you calling my symptoms the result of a chemical imbalance. Everything is chemicals/matter, and if they're not in balance things aren't quite right.. so, pretty well every neurological disorder could be called a chemical imbalance, really.


You did seem pretty upset because you thought I meant that your symptoms were "imaginary" tho (which I didn't).

Quote:
By stating that only those with confirmed brain structure differences have "real autism," you're implying that anyone without such a visual confirmation's autism is somehow not real. That's a bit insulting and offensive, as I assure you my and others symptoms are very real, regardless of the root cause of them. At that, it's unknown whether there are multiple causes of the same autism symptoms or not, and since the diagnosis is symptomatic & behavioural vs. brain scan dependant, every case is just as real as the next.


I explained that I couldn't think of another word (and I said so), by real I meant actually physical, observable through brain scans, when you can see the areas that are "overdevelopped" or "underdevelopped" (like for Temple Grandin, she doesn't only have a very developped visual cortex, she also has other areas of her brain that are "underdevelopped"), and certain circuits/links that would not be there normally (like for Daniel Tammet). And a diet won't change this anymore than you would be able to grow a finger through a diet. The best it can do, assuming you found the right ingredients, is the same as medication, where it will alleviate some symptoms.


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Last edited by Shadi2 on 29 Jun 2014, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

XFilesGeek
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29 Jun 2014, 6:33 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


Thanks, I'll look into it.


...I suppose those outside of certain social circles or having never had any interest in mycology have no idea what Ecuador Cubensis are. They're a strain of psilocybin (aka magic) mushroom. So, if the visual-spatial perception improvement you seek is of the Super Mario Bros. variety, then by all means, have at 'er & don't forget to eat dark chocolate along with them for it's MOAI effects on the brain that enhance the effects of psilocybin.

But otherwise I was joking. :)


Ahhhhhh....you devil, you. :shameonyou:


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29 Jun 2014, 6:36 pm

Shadi2 wrote:
Please get over the word "real", I just couldn't think of another word (and I said so), by real I meant actually physical, observable through brain scans, when you can see the areas that are "overdevelopped" or "underdevelopped" (like for Temple Grandin, she doesn't only have a very developped visual cortex, she also has other areas of her brain that are "underdevelopped"), and certain circuits/links that would not be there normally (like for Daniel Tammet).


And for all you or I know, you & I and everyone else on this forum share similar physical brain abnormalities. Without scans, we don't know.

Like I said in my thread months ago, I suspect/theorize that there's a genetic component + an environmental/chemical/digestive one. It's possible that the brain "rewiring," is genetic, but it's also possible that it "rewires," in response to bacterial/food/other chemicals and it's changes are simply the brain's way of coping with the barrage of chemicals flooding into it from the digestive tract that aren't supposed to be there.

It's possible that autism is mostly caused by digestive health issues, and that those with brain structure differences are simply statistical outliers. It's also possible that those with observable structural differences had worse digestive issues and the chemical shitstorm that ensued caused the brain to rewire itself. It's also possible that only some people have the genes required to cause the rewiring in response to bacterial/food chemicals.

The point is, you don't know and neither do I.. so referring to structural brain differences as "real," and discounting the symptoms and experiences of others as somehow "lesser," forms of autism than Temple Grandin has is ridiculous.


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29 Jun 2014, 6:48 pm

Goldfish. I took a quick look at the post you linked, but it is very long. Would it be possible to give just a short list of the symptoms that the diet helped you with?


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29 Jun 2014, 6:54 pm

Shadi2 wrote:
And a diet won't change this anymore than you would be able to grow a finger through a diet. The best it can do, assuming you found the right ingredients, is the same as medication, where it will alleviate some symptoms.


Maybe, maybe not. Who's to say that changing brain chemistry via diet & healing the intestinal lining wouldn't result in the brain structure changing and adapting to it's new environment? Especially IF it changed and adapted to all the chemicals that were thrown at it in the first place. Again, I don't know and don't pretend to.. but neither do you and nor should you.


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29 Jun 2014, 6:57 pm

Shadi2 wrote:
Goldfish. I took a quick look at the post you linked, but it is very long. Would it be possible to give just a short list of the symptoms that the diet helped you with?


Yes, here is the list:

Autism, ADHD, OCD, Tourettes, Depression, Anxiety, Dyspraxia.

The post may be long, but IMO it's worth the read. There's a lot of valuable information in it. Give it a read when you have the time. It may turn out to be very beneficial to you.


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