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Sweetleaf
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07 Jul 2014, 12:07 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-06/six-people-arrested-over-murder-of-palestinian-teenager/

"Six Jewish suspects have been arrested by Israeli police in connection with the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khudair, according to news agencies."

Looks like justice will be served after all. When are Hamas going to launch their investigation regarding the murder of the three Israeli teenagers, and punish them accordingly?


Only Israel is expected to act civil. Their enemies can do whatever they want.


according to who?



The [S]anti-semites[/S] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Alright...however how do you define and anti-semite? just someone who disagrees with how Israel handles the current conflict....or someone who actually hates people for being of semetic decent? That said I certainly cannot take the veiw that only Israel should be expected to act civil, both sides need to do that....but if each side keeps acting un-civil on account of the other acting un-civil its never going to end now is it?

Also I thought zionism was a bad thing even according to jews....or maybe I am thinking of something else...


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thomas81
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07 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

Your blessed Israeli 'justice' in action.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2


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thomas81
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07 Jul 2014, 1:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Alright...however how do you define and anti-semite? just someone who disagrees with how Israel handles the current conflict....or someone who actually hates people for being of semetic decent? That said I certainly cannot take the veiw that only Israel should be expected to act civil, both sides need to do that....but if each side keeps acting un-civil on account of the other acting un-civil its never going to end now is it?

Also I thought zionism was a bad thing even according to jews....or maybe I am thinking of something else...


If you believe Israel's most dogmatic supporters, like Kurgan, anyone who criticises Israel for any reason, by default, is an anti-semite.
Its a very deceitful and underhanded way of shutting down any criticism of Israel, regardless of how legitimate it is. Basically its a case of throw enough mud, and hope some of it sticks. The obvious problem is though, that this doesnt even come close to the true definition of anti semitism and in this over use, only serves to defuse the term of any meaning.

Had the South African whites had a similar defence mechanism to use, Apartheid South Africa would still be in existance today.


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Kurgan
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07 Jul 2014, 2:14 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

The [S]anti-semites[/S] [sic] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Look at my location. :roll:


I rest my case. IRA or similar groups aren't nearly as bad as Hamas, and to top it off, your country is three times the size of Israel. To be fair, it probably would be more violent if all the hollier-than-thou hypocrites started shouting "boycott Great Britain" and didn't want the British government to defend itself against terrorism.


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Kurgan
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07 Jul 2014, 2:17 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-06/six-people-arrested-over-murder-of-palestinian-teenager/

"Six Jewish suspects have been arrested by Israeli police in connection with the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khudair, according to news agencies."

Looks like justice will be served after all. When are Hamas going to launch their investigation regarding the murder of the three Israeli teenagers, and punish them accordingly?


Only Israel is expected to act civil. Their enemies can do whatever they want.


according to who?



The [S]anti-semites[/S] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Alright...however how do you define and anti-semite? just someone who disagrees with how Israel handles the current conflict....or someone who actually hates people for being of semetic decent? That said I certainly cannot take the veiw that only Israel should be expected to act civil, both sides need to do that....but if each side keeps acting un-civil on account of the other acting un-civil its never going to end now is it?

Also I thought zionism was a bad thing even according to jews....or maybe I am thinking of something else...


Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel. Anyone who wants to kick the jews out (like the Romans, the Ottomans, and the Brits did), is an antisemite.

Martin Luther King jr. wrote:
"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism,"


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Sweetleaf
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07 Jul 2014, 10:56 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-06/six-people-arrested-over-murder-of-palestinian-teenager/

"Six Jewish suspects have been arrested by Israeli police in connection with the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khudair, according to news agencies."

Looks like justice will be served after all. When are Hamas going to launch their investigation regarding the murder of the three Israeli teenagers, and punish them accordingly?


Only Israel is expected to act civil. Their enemies can do whatever they want.


according to who?



The [S]anti-semites[/S] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Alright...however how do you define and anti-semite? just someone who disagrees with how Israel handles the current conflict....or someone who actually hates people for being of semetic decent? That said I certainly cannot take the veiw that only Israel should be expected to act civil, both sides need to do that....but if each side keeps acting un-civil on account of the other acting un-civil its never going to end now is it?

Also I thought zionism was a bad thing even according to jews....or maybe I am thinking of something else...


Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel. Anyone who wants to kick the jews out (like the Romans, the Ottomans, and the Brits did), is an antisemite.

Martin Luther King jr. wrote:
"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism,"


So criticizing someone means you hate everyone in that group? wow what a double standard.....lol so if someone criticizes me for something stupid or f***d up I do that means they hate me and are anti-me? Sorry but that's bloody ridiculous.

Also so god supposedly gave Israel to the Jews so they have monopoly regardless of anything realistic because according to their religion god told them, they can go back there. Well an issue is back after WW11 when the state of Israel as we know it today was formed there where already people living there, who got thrown out of their land....this created conflict, said conflict is still going on to this day. If they had gone and tried to co-exist maybe it would have worked better but with the pompus 'god said we could have this, screw you' attitude you can't really blame the arabs in the area for being pissed. Israel needs to 'get over' their dumb delusional belief that they have some holy special right to that land and thus can do anything they want to make sure its under Jewish control regardless of how it effects anyone else. The whole thing is 'STUPID' yeah stupid fighting over a dry strip of crap land is what they are doing.


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DeepHour
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08 Jul 2014, 12:54 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel.



Is it simply that, or does it also incorporate the belief that the state of Israel should be a Jewish political and religious entity?

If the latter, this has interesting implications for the concept of Israel as a democracy, does it not?

What would happen, for instance, if the Palestinian/Arab population were to become the majority?



Kurgan
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08 Jul 2014, 2:04 pm

DeepHour wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel.



Is it simply that, or does it also incorporate the belief that the state of Israel should be a Jewish political and religious entity?

If the latter, this has interesting implications for the concept of Israel as a democracy, does it not?

What would happen, for instance, if the Palestinian/Arab population were to become the majority?


Israel is secular, and Zionism started out as a secular movement. Many important Zionists (eg. Einstein) throughout history weren't religious in the first place. There are already ten times as many Arabs in Israel as there are jews on the Gaza strip.


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Kurgan
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08 Jul 2014, 2:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-06/six-people-arrested-over-murder-of-palestinian-teenager/

"Six Jewish suspects have been arrested by Israeli police in connection with the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khudair, according to news agencies."

Looks like justice will be served after all. When are Hamas going to launch their investigation regarding the murder of the three Israeli teenagers, and punish them accordingly?


Only Israel is expected to act civil. Their enemies can do whatever they want.


according to who?



The [S]anti-semites[/S] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Alright...however how do you define and anti-semite? just someone who disagrees with how Israel handles the current conflict....or someone who actually hates people for being of semetic decent? That said I certainly cannot take the veiw that only Israel should be expected to act civil, both sides need to do that....but if each side keeps acting un-civil on account of the other acting un-civil its never going to end now is it?

Also I thought zionism was a bad thing even according to jews....or maybe I am thinking of something else...


Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel. Anyone who wants to kick the jews out (like the Romans, the Ottomans, and the Brits did), is an antisemite.

Martin Luther King jr. wrote:
"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism,"


So criticizing someone means you hate everyone in that group? wow what a double standard.....lol so if someone criticizes me for something stupid or f***d up I do that means they hate me and are anti-me? Sorry but that's bloody ridiculous.

Also so god supposedly gave Israel to the Jews so they have monopoly regardless of anything realistic because according to their religion god told them, they can go back there. Well an issue is back after WW11 when the state of Israel as we know it today was formed there where already people living there, who got thrown out of their land....this created conflict, said conflict is still going on to this day. If they had gone and tried to co-exist maybe it would have worked better but with the pompus 'god said we could have this, screw you' attitude you can't really blame the arabs in the area for being pissed. Israel needs to 'get over' their dumb delusional belief that they have some holy special right to that land and thus can do anything they want to make sure its under Jewish control regardless of how it effects anyone else. The whole thing is 'STUPID' yeah stupid fighting over a dry strip of crap land is what they are doing.


Let's say your neighbor starts hurling rocks at you, even after countless attempts to reason with him, and since it does not work, you defend yourself Now imagine that your other neighbors are child molesters, rapists, murderers, and so on, yet people only criticize you. It can only be motivated by their contempt for you.

Holiness has nothing to do with it. The land was stolen from the jews originally, and any Arab forcefully removed, was given full compensation. Jews that were forcefully evicted from their homes in Arab countries, received no compensation, and neither did muslims that were kicked out of India, or hindus who were kicked out of Pakistan.


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chris5000
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08 Jul 2014, 3:00 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-06/six-people-arrested-over-murder-of-palestinian-teenager/

"Six Jewish suspects have been arrested by Israeli police in connection with the murder of Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khudair, according to news agencies."

Looks like justice will be served after all. When are Hamas going to launch their investigation regarding the murder of the three Israeli teenagers, and punish them accordingly?


Only Israel is expected to act civil. Their enemies can do whatever they want.


according to who?



The [S]anti-semites[/S] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Alright...however how do you define and anti-semite? just someone who disagrees with how Israel handles the current conflict....or someone who actually hates people for being of semetic decent? That said I certainly cannot take the veiw that only Israel should be expected to act civil, both sides need to do that....but if each side keeps acting un-civil on account of the other acting un-civil its never going to end now is it?

Also I thought zionism was a bad thing even according to jews....or maybe I am thinking of something else...


Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel. Anyone who wants to kick the jews out (like the Romans, the Ottomans, and the Brits did), is an antisemite.

Martin Luther King jr. wrote:
"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism,"


So criticizing someone means you hate everyone in that group? wow what a double standard.....lol so if someone criticizes me for something stupid or f***d up I do that means they hate me and are anti-me? Sorry but that's bloody ridiculous.

Also so god supposedly gave Israel to the Jews so they have monopoly regardless of anything realistic because according to their religion god told them, they can go back there. Well an issue is back after WW11 when the state of Israel as we know it today was formed there where already people living there, who got thrown out of their land....this created conflict, said conflict is still going on to this day. If they had gone and tried to co-exist maybe it would have worked better but with the pompus 'god said we could have this, screw you' attitude you can't really blame the arabs in the area for being pissed. Israel needs to 'get over' their dumb delusional belief that they have some holy special right to that land and thus can do anything they want to make sure its under Jewish control regardless of how it effects anyone else. The whole thing is 'STUPID' yeah stupid fighting over a dry strip of crap land is what they are doing.


Let's say your neighbor starts hurling rocks at you, even after countless attempts to reason with him, and since it does not work, you defend yourself Now imagine that your other neighbors are child molesters, rapists, murderers, and so on, yet people only criticize you. It can only be motivated by their contempt for you.

Holiness has nothing to do with it. The land was stolen from the jews originally, and any Arab forcefully removed, was given full compensation. Jews that were forcefully evicted from their homes in Arab countries, received no compensation, and neither did muslims that were kicked out of India, or hindus who were kicked out of Pakistan.

the land was never stolen from the jews
the jews that came after ww2 are european jews. they had no connection at all to israel because they are khazars
the arabs are hurling everything they have because they are being kicked out of their homeland by foreigners
the jews that were in Palestine before israel was created lived in peace with the arabs

its like settlers coming from mexico into the united states
they act like the victim when the native people rise up then then bomb any resistance bulldoze neighborhoods and build a giant wall

Image

if their little holy book is fact to you then the bible must be fact too



Kurgan
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08 Jul 2014, 3:09 pm

chris5000 wrote:
the land was never stolen from the jews


Get your history facts checked.

Quote:
the jews that came after ww2 are european jews. they had no connection at all to israel because they are khazars
the arabs are hurling everything they have because they are being kicked out of their homeland by foreigners
the jews that were in Palestine before israel was created lived in peace with the arabs


The jews that were in the Ottoman empire before Israel was created where second range citizens outside of Turkey, and were subjects to several genocides during the 600 years the empire existed.

Quote:
its like settlers coming from mexico into the united states
they act like the victim when the native people rise up then then bomb any resistance bulldoze neighborhoods and build a giant wall


Mexicans aren't descended from people who were kicked out of the US.


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chris5000
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08 Jul 2014, 3:18 pm

Kurgan wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
the land was never stolen from the jews


Get your history facts checked.

Quote:
the jews that came after ww2 are european jews. they had no connection at all to israel because they are khazars
the arabs are hurling everything they have because they are being kicked out of their homeland by foreigners
the jews that were in Palestine before israel was created lived in peace with the arabs


The jews that were in the Ottoman empire before Israel was created where second range citizens outside of Turkey, and were subjects to several genocides during the 600 years the empire existed.

Quote:
its like settlers coming from mexico into the united states
they act like the victim when the native people rise up then then bomb any resistance bulldoze neighborhoods and build a giant wall


Mexicans aren't descended from people who were kicked out of the US.

technically they are so by your logic we must give them Texas back

also it makes you wonder what they were doing to make people want to genocide them
people dont just genocide for no reason



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08 Jul 2014, 4:26 pm

Kurgan wrote:
DeepHour wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

Zionism is simply the belief that the jews should be allowed to return to Israel.



Is it simply that, or does it also incorporate the belief that the state of Israel should be a Jewish political and religious entity?

If the latter, this has interesting implications for the concept of Israel as a democracy, does it not?

What would happen, for instance, if the Palestinian/Arab population were to become the majority?


Israel is secular, and Zionism started out as a secular movement. Many important Zionists (eg. Einstein) throughout history weren't religious in the first place. There are already ten times as many Arabs in Israel as there are jews on the Gaza strip.



With respect, you have avoided answering two of my three questions.

What do you think the Israeli authorities' attitude would be, if it looked as though the Arab population might become a majority, or even a much more significant minority?



thomas81
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09 Jul 2014, 11:25 am

Kurgan wrote:

Martin Luther King jr. wrote:
"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism,"


Yes, because MLK was an inexhaustible source of truth and incapable of being wrong. :roll:

Moreover given his religious background he was hardly immune to bias.

Not all Jews are zionists, and not all zionists are Jews. If anything, the original zionists were anti semites because they opposed the idea that gentiles and Jews should amalgamate.


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The_Walrus
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11 Jul 2014, 5:11 am

Kurgan wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

The [S]anti-semites[/S] [sic] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Look at my location. :roll:


I rest my case. IRA or similar groups aren't nearly as bad as Hamas, and to top it off, your country is three times the size of Israel. To be fair, it probably would be more violent if all the hollier-than-thou hypocrites started shouting "boycott Great Britain" and didn't want the British government to defend itself against terrorism.

Palestinian suicide bombers killed 804 people between 1989 and 2008 (42 a year). A further 64 were killed by rocket strikes between 2001 and 2012, though the death toll would be higher if not for incompetence.

The IRA killed 1609 between 1969 and 1997 (57 a year).

Your "three times the size" comment makes little sense too. Northern Ireland has a population of less than 2m, whereas Israel is over 7m. The whole of Britain is well over 3 times the population size of Israel. It also does not fit with area.



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11 Jul 2014, 10:48 am

Kurgan wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

The [S]anti-semites[/S] [sic] anti-zionists who do not live in countries where terrorist attacks are frequent.


Look at my location. :roll:


I rest my case. IRA or similar groups aren't nearly as bad as Hamas, and to top it off, your country is three times the size of Israel. To be fair, it probably would be more violent if all the hollier-than-thou hypocrites started shouting "boycott Great Britain" and didn't want the British government to defend itself against terrorism.


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Still keeping up that brilliant posting, I see.