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Misery
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16 Jul 2014, 12:40 am

I have trouble believing that wavedashing was on purpose. The way the move works, combined with the way the games handle momentum, and the underlying logic of the engine.... yeah, I dont think so. Luigi is the easiest character to watch for the numerous clues to this due to how his quirks work. Not to mention that Melee in particular had ALOT of glitches, though most people dont seem to be aware of them.

Not to mention it goes COMPLETELY against the design ideas of that game. Smash is supposed to be accessible... it's built into it's EVERYTHING. Sticking a hidden command that requires such a batshit insane set of controller motions that gives players who use it an advantage over players that dont.... if it WAS on purpose, that's very bad design, really. VERY bad design. I refuse to use it myself, just as I wont use infinites in normal fighters. Fortunately for me, I dont NEED to use it. Braggy as it sounds, my skill level is WAY too high to need such things in fighters. I actually find wavedasher type players the easiest to defeat (and by far the most satisfying and entertaining), after discovering a few flaws in the technique. Though this is not the case for most players, and I can understand the frustration that many have in trying to go against it. I ended up despising Melee because it was so bloody boring to go up against most players, due to their obsessive use of that idiotic move. Brawl I enjoyed. Been awhile since I've played though, particularly considering my strong dislike of Nintendo. And I prefer other fighting games anyway. Though I may or may not jump into this next one, not really sure. I *know* there's a high chance of the community for it ruining it for me again with their anti-fun stance.


And yeah, I agree with you on the competetive part. Regardless of where my skill level is, I play these because they're a good time. And if my opponent isnt having fun.... I'm not having fun either. It's SUPPOSED to be a good time.

So many forget this though. It's tragic.


And on the note of RTS, ugh, yes that's a big genre of "cant be fun, GOTTA BE SERIOUS" isnt it, when I stop and think about it.

I'd take an interest in the genre myself, but.... ugh. Stuff like the extreme focus on APM just BUGS me. It's supposed to be a strategy game! Not a "how fast can you click and smash keys" competition! And half of those clicks arent even necessary! I always notice that when they're moving something to a different location, they'll click on the same spot like 10000 times, as opposed to the ONCE that is actually needed. So I ended up pretty much just playing turn-based stuff, which works out well enough.

Though that stupid "click a billion times to move" bit shows up in mobas as well, which I am into, the difference being that nobody actually cares about APM in that genre. For many players it's just a side effect of getting too excited.


And annoyingly, I usually cant play any of these things just with friends. Fighting games I can sort of do with them.... but only a couple of them care about the genre, wheras the rest of them MIGHT care about a particular game.... until I start playing it, at which point they all stop. I wish I was making that up. And every OTHER genre (that isnt FPS) they just dont care at all, be it a competetive genre or a co-op sort of thing like MMOs or something like Monster Hunter.


Argh.


There, vented a bit. This particular subject always gets me all ranty.



mr_bigmouth_502
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16 Jul 2014, 1:33 am

Misery wrote:
I have trouble believing that wavedashing was on purpose. The way the move works, combined with the way the games handle momentum, and the underlying logic of the engine.... yeah, I dont think so. Luigi is the easiest character to watch for the numerous clues to this due to how his quirks work. Not to mention that Melee in particular had ALOT of glitches, though most people dont seem to be aware of them.

Not to mention it goes COMPLETELY against the design ideas of that game. Smash is supposed to be accessible... it's built into it's EVERYTHING. Sticking a hidden command that requires such a batshit insane set of controller motions that gives players who use it an advantage over players that dont.... if it WAS on purpose, that's very bad design, really. VERY bad design. I refuse to use it myself, just as I wont use infinites in normal fighters. Fortunately for me, I dont NEED to use it. Braggy as it sounds, my skill level is WAY too high to need such things in fighters. I actually find wavedasher type players the easiest to defeat (and by far the most satisfying and entertaining), after discovering a few flaws in the technique. Though this is not the case for most players, and I can understand the frustration that many have in trying to go against it. I ended up despising Melee because it was so bloody boring to go up against most players, due to their obsessive use of that idiotic move. Brawl I enjoyed. Been awhile since I've played though, particularly considering my strong dislike of Nintendo. And I prefer other fighting games anyway. Though I may or may not jump into this next one, not really sure. I *know* there's a high chance of the community for it ruining it for me again with their anti-fun stance.


And yeah, I agree with you on the competetive part. Regardless of where my skill level is, I play these because they're a good time. And if my opponent isnt having fun.... I'm not having fun either. It's SUPPOSED to be a good time.

So many forget this though. It's tragic.


And on the note of RTS, ugh, yes that's a big genre of "cant be fun, GOTTA BE SERIOUS" isnt it, when I stop and think about it.

I'd take an interest in the genre myself, but.... ugh. Stuff like the extreme focus on APM just BUGS me. It's supposed to be a strategy game! Not a "how fast can you click and smash keys" competition! And half of those clicks arent even necessary! I always notice that when they're moving something to a different location, they'll click on the same spot like 10000 times, as opposed to the ONCE that is actually needed. So I ended up pretty much just playing turn-based stuff, which works out well enough.

Though that stupid "click a billion times to move" bit shows up in mobas as well, which I am into, the difference being that nobody actually cares about APM in that genre. For many players it's just a side effect of getting too excited.


And annoyingly, I usually cant play any of these things just with friends. Fighting games I can sort of do with them.... but only a couple of them care about the genre, wheras the rest of them MIGHT care about a particular game.... until I start playing it, at which point they all stop. I wish I was making that up. And every OTHER genre (that isnt FPS) they just dont care at all, be it a competetive genre or a co-op sort of thing like MMOs or something like Monster Hunter.


Argh.


There, vented a bit. This particular subject always gets me all ranty.


It is possible that wavedashing was a glitch that showed up that they didn't bother to fix since it seemed cool, an unintentional feature if you will. Combos on SFII started out the same way, same with strafejumping and rocket jumping on Quake.

I believe it's possible for a game to appeal to both the hardcore and casual markets, as long as its done the right way. The Unreal Tournament series is an excellent example, it's quite accessible compared to other shooters, and it has a lot of features just aimed at making things fun, but it also has a fairly high skill cap, and features that appeal to the hardcore players, like adjustable FOV settings. The overall tone of the game does NOT scream "hardcore", but it does accommodate both types of players.

Counter Strike 1.6 is another good example, surprisingly. I mean, back when it was new people took it quite seriously, but now that the pro scene for it has cooled down, it's become a pretty easy-going game, and it's not that hard to pick up and play. It has a bit of a learning curve, and the overall skill cap is pretty high, but I never feel really pressured when I'm playing it. Ironically, Team Fortress 2, a game that's supposed to have more "casual" appeal frustrates the hell out of me. Why? Unlike CS, it doesn't put players on equal footing. You have to be hip to new strategies, and play (or pay, due to the damn microtransactions system) enough to get the newest and latest weapons, so you can stay on top of things. F2P was one of the worst things to happen to it.



Misery
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16 Jul 2014, 8:26 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
[It is possible that wavedashing was a glitch that showed up that they didn't bother to fix since it seemed cool, an unintentional feature if you will. Combos on SFII started out the same way, same with strafejumping and rocket jumping on Quake.

I believe it's possible for a game to appeal to both the hardcore and casual markets, as long as its done the right way. The Unreal Tournament series is an excellent example, it's quite accessible compared to other shooters, and it has a lot of features just aimed at making things fun, but it also has a fairly high skill cap, and features that appeal to the hardcore players, like adjustable FOV settings. The overall tone of the game does NOT scream "hardcore", but it does accommodate both types of players.

Counter Strike 1.6 is another good example, surprisingly. I mean, back when it was new people took it quite seriously, but now that the pro scene for it has cooled down, it's become a pretty easy-going game, and it's not that hard to pick up and play. It has a bit of a learning curve, and the overall skill cap is pretty high, but I never feel really pressured when I'm playing it. Ironically, Team Fortress 2, a game that's supposed to have more "casual" appeal frustrates the hell out of me. Why? Unlike CS, it doesn't put players on equal footing. You have to be hip to new strategies, and play (or pay, due to the damn microtransactions system) enough to get the newest and latest weapons, so you can stay on top of things. F2P was one of the worst things to happen to it.


Ugh, yes, TF2. Jumped into that recently, partly to have something to play with a couple of friends and my cousin, and.... ahh, it mostly just causes confusion as I get killed by weapons I dont know about.

Counter-strike though.... hm, that always seemed like a more hard-core thing to me. Seems so.... tactical. Granted, I aint exactly a tactical genius here. My form of "tactics" is "CHAAAAAAARGE!! !! !!" followed by going berserk. It's what I do in fighting games, and.... well, basically everything, actually. But it sure wont work in a game like that one. Gotta be all.... careful and stuff. It all looks confusing to me, at least from what I've seen of it. I end up preferring non-realistic shooters for the most part like TF2. Or something like Titanfall, I like that one. And enjoying Plants VS Zombies: Garden Warfare lately too, which turned out be very good (and chaotic). And harder to learn than I thought.

As for microtransactions.... ugh. Yes, hate those. Wanna punch whoever came up with them. They're okay in a game like League of Legends, or Dota, where you buy either characters or cosmetics, not things that actually increase stats/power/whatever. That's fine by me. But buying something that has a strengthening effect on you, just..... argh. So freaking stupid.



mr_bigmouth_502
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16 Jul 2014, 8:57 pm

Misery wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
[It is possible that wavedashing was a glitch that showed up that they didn't bother to fix since it seemed cool, an unintentional feature if you will. Combos on SFII started out the same way, same with strafejumping and rocket jumping on Quake.

I believe it's possible for a game to appeal to both the hardcore and casual markets, as long as its done the right way. The Unreal Tournament series is an excellent example, it's quite accessible compared to other shooters, and it has a lot of features just aimed at making things fun, but it also has a fairly high skill cap, and features that appeal to the hardcore players, like adjustable FOV settings. The overall tone of the game does NOT scream "hardcore", but it does accommodate both types of players.

Counter Strike 1.6 is another good example, surprisingly. I mean, back when it was new people took it quite seriously, but now that the pro scene for it has cooled down, it's become a pretty easy-going game, and it's not that hard to pick up and play. It has a bit of a learning curve, and the overall skill cap is pretty high, but I never feel really pressured when I'm playing it. Ironically, Team Fortress 2, a game that's supposed to have more "casual" appeal frustrates the hell out of me. Why? Unlike CS, it doesn't put players on equal footing. You have to be hip to new strategies, and play (or pay, due to the damn microtransactions system) enough to get the newest and latest weapons, so you can stay on top of things. F2P was one of the worst things to happen to it.


Ugh, yes, TF2. Jumped into that recently, partly to have something to play with a couple of friends and my cousin, and.... ahh, it mostly just causes confusion as I get killed by weapons I dont know about.

Counter-strike though.... hm, that always seemed like a more hard-core thing to me. Seems so.... tactical. Granted, I aint exactly a tactical genius here. My form of "tactics" is "CHAAAAAAARGE!! !! !!" followed by going berserk. It's what I do in fighting games, and.... well, basically everything, actually. But it sure wont work in a game like that one. Gotta be all.... careful and stuff. It all looks confusing to me, at least from what I've seen of it. I end up preferring non-realistic shooters for the most part like TF2. Or something like Titanfall, I like that one. And enjoying Plants VS Zombies: Garden Warfare lately too, which turned out be very good (and chaotic). And harder to learn than I thought.

As for microtransactions.... ugh. Yes, hate those. Wanna punch whoever came up with them. They're okay in a game like League of Legends, or Dota, where you buy either characters or cosmetics, not things that actually increase stats/power/whatever. That's fine by me. But buying something that has a strengthening effect on you, just..... argh. So freaking stupid.


TF2 is indeed very confusing, and overwhelming as well. Nearly every time I play it, I end up getting frustrated, rage-quitting, and putting it down for some other game.

CS, to me isn't as overwhelming, as there's usually not as much going on, but the tactics are a lot different than other games. The closest thing I can compare it to actually is paintball; you spend a lot of time ducking behind cover, sniping, providing cover fire, and securing objectives. Though the easiest way to win a match is by killing all the players on the other team, I've won matches without firing a single bullet. Like I said earlier on though, it does have a bit of a learning curve. It's also the type of game you really want to fine-tune your settings for. I actually made a custom resolution just for it, since the GoldSrc engine is vert- instead of hor+, so to get a full vertical FOV you have to go with a 4:3 resolution.

I think microtransactions, DLC, and the popularization of online multiplayer have been the bane of modern gaming. Gaming should have never went mainstream.



Last edited by mr_bigmouth_502 on 17 Jul 2014, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

structrix
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17 Jul 2014, 9:11 am

charlie92 wrote:
I spend way too much time playing video games when I'm not at college. Sometimes I don't even know why I do it apart from not having any other hobbies. So many games make me feel like a complete imbecile though because I'm awful at them. Mostly anything involving any sort of 'strategy' is impossible for me to win even on 'very easy'. Even a 10 year old could probably do it. And I've never played anything on a harder setting than 'normal'. Yeah I know it says a lot about me when even video games ruin my self-esteem. I don't have a scrap of patience either. If I can't understand something, I will literally hit my head against a wall. From what I've seen on gaming forums online, if you play games on anything less than 'normal' ever and don't love being 'challenged', that makes you stupid.


Why are you "grading" yourself by your video game performance. The levels of very easy, easy, hard, etc. are arbitrary and have no value in the REAL WORLD. What do I get out of gaming? FUN! If something is too much work then it ceases to be fun. Whether that be on very easy, easy, normal, etc. If you do not enjoy playing games anymore then maybe you can find a new hobby but your hobbies are your own. If you want to prove to people that you are L337 or whatever then that is a separate issue. In anything in life there are going to be things that you find that are going to be super easy for you or super hard despite what the whole world says about the matter. If a 10 year old can do it thats fine and dandy but most 10 year olds would have a hard time doing high school math. In the end its what YOU yourself get out of it.


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