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MissDorkness
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04 Feb 2015, 11:52 pm

Tori0326 wrote:
Just an update...

I got a job! I start Monday.
Finding a job over the holiday season was practically impossible. I think all the companies just put hiring on hold for a few weeks, but things picked up in January and I had a handful of potential employers interested. I decided I really wanted to continue as a software developer so I took that over some other choices in the IT field.

Now I just have to find a new place to live closer to work. It looks like I'll be commuting a little over an hour each way for the first couple weeks until I find something but I think it will be worth it. This company is much more structured (and much bigger) and I'm hoping that's my safety net from psychotic managers.


Sweet! Congrats.
And, yeah, I feel you on the commute. I go 45 minutes each way and hate it.



Tori0326
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14 Jun 2015, 12:53 pm

Update...
The new job is going great. I am now mostly working from home which really helps with minimizing social issues that tend to crop up with working day after day with people.

One of my former co-workers texted me a couple months ago that they went back to using the programming languages we were originally using so, as I predicted, I was right and management was wrong. Not that they would ever admit to that.

The same co-worker texted me more recently and said that only one person from our development team was still working there. Everybody else had left. He didn't specify if they quit or were terminated and I didn't pry.

I think the "IT Director" who fired me may have been fired herself recently. She sent me a request to connect on LinkedIn. My interpretation of this is she's no longer with that company and is sprucing up her profile for a new job search. Out of curiosity, I went to my former employer's website to view their executive profile page. It had photos and little biographies of all the upper management. The page has been removed from the website so it appears there has been some upper level restructuring.

I just can't believe that woman would have the nerve to try to connect with me on any level considering her treatment of me and my co-workers. It's as if she's saying "Hey, nothing personal about all the cursing and harsh treatment and firing." I'm generally a forgiving person but she really took the cake. "Unprofessional" doesn't even scratch the surface.



cberg
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14 Jun 2015, 2:25 pm

I had a boss like that at the largest SW firm on the planet (really more of a firmware firm :lol: - I was working on software though) and he more than likely pitted my team managers against each other. They were both really good people too; so was the girl that hired me! Such was the difference in competence regarding this dude she shared an office with that I just realized, months after he ended my contract that he had spread a rumor that the smart lady was the incompetent one! She knew volumes about our product pipeline!

Feel free to PM me about corrosive office nonsense. The ignoramuses always win, so I don't care at all about the money anymore. Simply put I'm accustomed to making sacrifices in order to keep technology equitable and safe.


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CateJayne
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14 Jun 2015, 5:27 pm

Tori0326 wrote:
ok wrote:
This is quite a story, and sadly a "classic autistic" story about an aspie being discriminated and marginalized in the work place. If you have the ressources, I really think you should sue the company as this is completely unacceptable conduct by your bosses.

I'm glad you have a positive outlook, and that your job opportunities seems alright - with any luck you should find something better soon.



I know the manager was horrible and I can also confirm that by my co-workers relating the same complaints and they're not aspies. But I also know that familiar aspie delayed realization that I must have crossed some NT line I didn't realize was there. I'll be going along thinking everything is fine and then boom someone explodes at me or someone avoids me obviously enough for me to notice. I'm always confused because I really don't know what I did and then if they even recount to me what I said I'm pretty certain that's not what I actually said, or I don't understand why they're mad about it, but they're so angry at that point that I realize it must have been a series of misunderstandings leading up to that moment.

I did mention it to this manager but I never officially notified my employer as I don't have an official diagnosis. Asperger's wasn't a thing until I was an adult. My mom took me to a bunch of specialists when I was a child but they never could put their finger on it back then. I feel normal so I really don't know how I present to people. Obviously, I'm not normal because it doesn't seem to take people very long to start having issues with me. I seem to usually make a good first impression but it degrades from there.

I am talking to a recruiter with a really big company. We'll see how that goes. I've sent my resume to some other companies. I'm also considering if I wouldn't be better off freelancing. That way I could do what I do best without all the people contact. I got into IT/programming so I could work with less human contact, which in this last job swung toward more human contact as time went on.


Your previous job situation was unfortunate -- and at least you've learned what you're NOT looking for in a job next time.

(However, the chip on the block about the clueless young manager who has no idea what she wants needs to go - she was your boss, you needed to figure out a way to submit to her authority. It would also behoove you to, say, advocate for yourself by requesting work instructions/deadlines/etc be sent to you by email only. That way there's a record of what you were told to do and there's an opportunity for you to clarify stuff
and explain where you're coming from, eg "you asked me to do X by Tuesday and doing so would mean Y won't be done til Friday. Are you comfy with prioritizing work this way?" or even "the new database I've built is superior to the previous one due to x and y, so for the next project I'd recommend we do Z. Is this what management wants?").



dianthus
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18 Jun 2015, 3:48 pm

Homer_Bob wrote:
Young managers are the worst, aren't they. I can't stand it if a company hires some young outside college grad who basically only has to do an internship within the company before they get a management job to manage people who have had to worked for the company for many more years and know much more about the company than they do. It's just unethical. I believe a manager should be someone who's worked for the company for many years and moved up from a company from the bottom up.


I agree completely. My company has started doing this too and I hate it.

My current supervisor is practically a carbon copy of the last one...same age (25ish), same gender (male), similar personality, about the same height and build and overall appearance, slender and a bit effeminate. Young males who fit the stereotype tend to get promoted to similar positions as well. I have been at meetings where there were several lined up who looked like they came off an assembly line together. The average age has dropped rapidly in recent years, but the lack of diversity is even more concerning...although, from reading reviews on Glassdoor, it sounds like other districts are getting token females promoted instead. It's very strange.

I don't mind working for a younger person, as long as they have the maturity, skills, and experience to justify being in the position...however I think it would be rare to find someone in their 20s who has those qualifications for the position. They usually have about 1-2 years experience with the company, but no management experience whatsoever, and no experience with the particular channel of business we are in - which is VERY different from the sector they are more familiar with.

I am the youngest person on the team in my position, and only about 10-12 years older than the supervisor, but I have been there the longest. It's just downright insulting for me to have someone try to "coach" me on basic things that I learned a long time ago, or argue with me about things they know little or nothing about, or passively clam up and slink away when they realize they are out of their depth.

The company actually knows they have a real problem with this sort of thing, so much so that they actually rolled out a program to deal with it, whereby we are supposed to tell the manager what kind of coaching or training we need (or don't need) since they apparently don't have the common sense to figure it out for themselves. However, everything about how the company operates just encourages more micromanagement.

I don't understand what the company sees in these young guys, but then again maybe I do...they are ambitious, and they make much better puppets than an older person who might think for themselves. The real problem is that the company treats that supervisory position like it's just a brief stop on the way to bigger things, really almost like it's a tourist attraction. They are just there to see the sites until they very shortly get promoted and relocated again. There's no real incentive for them to get to know their people or learn the business, much less try to resolve any real problems or issues.

My position, on the other hand, is part time and has absolutely no opportunity for promotion, a classic dead end job. It's also really depressing to know that new hires are earning a much higher rate than I started with, which makes several years worth of raises kind of meaningless. Bottom line, the company does not value "experience." I don't think they even have a concept of what that is.

What's most incendiary though, is the vast gap in pay between my position, and the supervisory position, and more so the way they are totally oblivious to the gap and talk to employees as if they think we are all just rolling in money, and having to hear about all the whirlwind vacations they get to take halfway around the world, what seems like ten thousand endless f*****g months of vacation that somehow defies the actual length of a calendar year, and how we are required to tell about our own vacations as an "icebreaker" at meetings, when I haven't been able to afford to take a real trip in years. Or how they get to travel to conferences in nice places and hang out on the beach, and when they are not on vacation they are spending a lot of time on the job just hanging out at places like Starbucks, and casually showing up late and ducking out early from actually having to work with their employees.

I don't know what could possibly justify paying these people the amount of money they are getting, while we have to get nitpicked over how many minutes we spend doing a task, and I'm pretty sure the company spends thousands on research to tell them exactly how many minutes each job task is supposed to take, just so they can save paying a few extra dollars to part-time employees. It makes me sick.

The only consolation I have right now, is when I read a horror story like the OP's, I know things could be much worse.



CateJayne
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18 Jun 2015, 4:14 pm

dianthus wrote:
Homer_Bob wrote:
Young managers are the worst, aren't they. I can't stand it if a company hires some young outside college grad who basically only has to do an internship within the company before they get a management job to manage people who have had to worked for the company for many more years and know much more about the company than they do. It's just unethical. I believe a manager should be someone who's worked for the company for many years and moved up from a company from the bottom up.


I agree completely. My company has started doing this too and I hate it.

My current supervisor is practically a carbon copy of the last one...same age (25ish), same gender (male), similar personality, about the same height and build and overall appearance, slender and a bit effeminate. Young males who fit the stereotype tend to get promoted to similar positions as well. I have been at meetings where there were several lined up who looked like they came off an assembly line together. The average age has dropped rapidly in recent years, but the lack of diversity is even more concerning...although, from reading reviews on Glassdoor, it sounds like other districts are getting token females promoted instead. It's very strange.

I don't mind working for a younger person, as long as they have the maturity, skills, and experience to justify being in the position...however I think it would be rare to find someone in their 20s who has those qualifications for the position. They usually have about 1-2 years experience with the company, but no management experience whatsoever, and no experience with the particular channel of business we are in - which is VERY different from the sector they are more familiar with.

I am the youngest person on the team in my position, and only about 10-12 years older than the supervisor, but I have been there the longest. It's just downright insulting for me to have someone try to "coach" me on basic things that I learned a long time ago, or argue with me about things they know little or nothing about, or passively clam up and slink away when they realize they are out of their depth.

The company actually knows they have a real problem with this sort of thing, so much so that they actually rolled out a program to deal with it, whereby we are supposed to tell the manager what kind of coaching or training we need (or don't need) since they apparently don't have the common sense to figure it out for themselves. However, everything about how the company operates just encourages more micromanagement.

I don't understand what the company sees in these young guys, but then again maybe I do...they are ambitious, and they make much better puppets than an older person who might think for themselves. The real problem is that the company treats that supervisory position like it's just a brief stop on the way to bigger things, really almost like it's a tourist attraction. They are just there to see the sites until they very shortly get promoted and relocated again. There's no real incentive for them to get to know their people or learn the business, much less try to resolve any real problems or issues.

My position, on the other hand, is part time and has absolutely no opportunity for promotion, a classic dead end job. It's also really depressing to know that new hires are earning a much higher rate than I started with, which makes several years worth of raises kind of meaningless. Bottom line, the company does not value "experience." I don't think they even have a concept of what that is.

What's most incendiary though, is the vast gap in pay between my position, and the supervisory position, and more so the way they are totally oblivious to the gap and talk to employees as if they think we are all just rolling in money, and having to hear about all the whirlwind vacations they get to take halfway around the world, what seems like ten thousand endless f*****g months of vacation that somehow defies the actual length of a calendar year, and how we are required to tell about our own vacations as an "icebreaker" at meetings, when I haven't been able to afford to take a real trip in years. Or how they get to travel to conferences in nice places and hang out on the beach, and when they are not on vacation they are spending a lot of time on the job just hanging out at places like Starbucks, and casually showing up late and ducking out early from actually having to work with their employees.

I don't know what could possibly justify paying these people the amount of money they are getting, while we have to get nitpicked over how many minutes we spend doing a task, and I'm pretty sure the company spends thousands on research to tell them exactly how many minutes each job task is supposed to take, just so they can save paying a few extra dollars to part-time employees. It makes me sick.

The only consolation I have right now, is when I read a horror story like the OP's, I know things could be much worse.


Bitter much?

Clearly, the 25 yo managers you loathe on principle have skills that are more desirable (and hence valuable to your employer) than yours.

Why else would they get paid more than you? Get better perks than you? Why is does your employer keep hire/promoting/paying these kids way more than YOU?

(Seriously. I'm curious. Give me a reason or two. Surely they aren't all the son/daughter/cousin/sorority sister of somebody in senior management!!).

Write a business case and ask for a raise. Get a job that pays better at a different company if they're unwilling to give it to you.

Also, have you ever asked yourself why EVERY one of the 25 yo managers you are so damn dismissive of feel the need to micromanage you? Not just one or two. ALL.

This suggests that, well, you're not doing your job the way the company wants it done. (i loathed having minions at wirk. Loathed it. Because so so so many of them were unwilling to do stuff the way it is supposed to be done when they have been furnished with exquisitely dtard instructions for doing so. They "did their best" or "tried hard"... sooo not good enough)! !



dianthus
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18 Jun 2015, 4:34 pm

CateJayne wrote:
(i loathed having minions at wirk. Loathed it. Because so so so many of them were unwilling to do stuff the way it is supposed to be done when they have been furnished with exquisitely dtard instructions for doing so. They "did their best" or "tried hard"... sooo not good enough)! !


Minions? Have you ever asked yourself why those people would be unwilling to do stuff the way you instructed them to do it? For starters, if you don't have respect for the people working under you, they won't have respect for you.



dianthus
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18 Jun 2015, 5:27 pm

CateJayne wrote:
Why is does your employer keep hire/promoting/paying these kids way more than YOU?

(Seriously. I'm curious. Give me a reason or two. Surely they aren't all the son/daughter/cousin/sorority sister of somebody in senior management!!).


Maybe you missed where I said this in my other post, but my position is not eligible for promotion. Ever. No exceptions. I knew that up front when I was hired, and I was okay with that. Things have changed a lot since there, so my feelings are different now, but there isn't a position in the company I would actually want to be promoted to. My post wasn't about wanting to be promoted, it was about not wanting to work under a manager who doesn't do their job like they should. I guess you missed that too.

As for nepotism, this is suggested quite a bit in the reviews on Glassdoor, and there are tons of complaints on there about people (who are actually eligible for promotions) being passed over in favor of those who don't deserve it. It's a company wide, nation wide issue.

Quote:
Write a business case and ask for a raise.


Again, not an option. Raises come on a fixed pay scale and they don't make exceptions. My supervisor doesn't even know what his own employees earn per hour. He said I could tell him how much I make if I wanted to. lol

Your comments just show how naïve you are about how corporations like this actually operate. You are living in fantasy land if you think your comments and suggestions have any relevance to my job circumstances.

Quote:
Also, have you ever asked yourself why EVERY one of the 25 yo managers you are so damn dismissive of feel the need to micromanage you? Not just one or two. ALL.


It's obvious why they do it, because they are trained to manage that way, and the company has actually acknowledged that it's a problem. Again, you must have missed that in my post.

Quote:
This suggests that, well, you're not doing your job the way the company wants it done.


My manager's manager actually called me out specifically at the last meeting as someone who knows what they are doing and knows how to get the job done.