so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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where did I say you or other women did????

though I have known some women who do wear certain clothes to attract attention of guys. they said they liked the attention but don't want it to go further.

I think there is a point when it becomes too short or too nothing or is it ok for me to wear short tight clothing that would make my penis very evident? no of course not cause people would be like think of the children, so its ok for kids to see a woman's breasts and vagina but not a mans penis. I think both are wrong.

until boobs are desexualized in western culture you must accept people will find a woman taking her shirt off and only having a bra sexual. if done around friends I don't see a problem with it if they did it in the stadium then I would feel uncomfortable. though you're post doesn't make it clear if it was vocal or just them staring at her chest.

what is leering how is it different then looking? makes me feel like looking at a woman is bad, women and men do it and can't be helped. if you wear a short skit and I notice I will look then look away. I might look again but I do try my best not to.
really can't help it much as women staring at a shirtless guy mowing his lawn can't.

so they are blind? I've seen videos of street harassment like construction works whistling or saying stuff. it is pretty clear.
just cause It doesn't happen near as much here as it does where you live doesn't mean I ignore it or don't notice it. it could just mean it doesn't happen here. we also don't have gang problem where LA does.

much like gang problem I have no doubt street harassment happens especially in the big cities with over a million population.

If my gf told me it happen to her I wouldn't ask her to prove it, why would she lie. though I tend to be honest, and take people at face value. I don't perceive why people would lie about such things.



then I don't want to here you complain about some guy saying most women, women, some women, etc is sexist.

for the same reasons you say those things are we say saying a lot of men or most men or men is.

growing tired of coming here and leaving feeling like I'm a rapist, or harasser, or murder. I really don't need that added onto my already feeling like a horrible human that should kill myself.

for the last time, no one is calling you a rapist or implying that you are a rapist. no one is trying to make you feel like a rapist. if women talking about their own experiences of harassment at the hands of other men that aren't you makes you feel like a rapist for some reason, maybe you should talk to a therapist about that. no one here wants you to feel that way so i don't know why you keep assuming that we do.

a woman saying I was raped or I get street harassed is not the problem
a woman saying most men rape or a lot of men do street harassment is.

I don't get how you are such a hypocrite

you made me away how generalizing about women could come accross as hurtful and sexist , why can't you see it the other way.

stop saying all these things i didn't say! i never said most men rape. if you call me a hypocrite again for something i never said i will report you to the mods.

sly, please stop reading more than people are writing.

Nobody's called you a rapist.
Nobody's said you're telling women they're exaggerating.

You can wear whatever you like so long as you abide by local ordinances. In New York that means you can run around naked doing performance art on the sidewalk. Here, not so much.

I do have control over my own eyes. So if I see a very handsome man, you'd better believe I'm careful with those eyes. Same when I'm with students. I work with some very beautiful young people, men and women, and I am absolutely *not* there to objectify them, gratify myself by having a good stare. They're coming to my office for help with their work, not to be turned into eye candy. Doesn't matter what they're wearing or not wearing.

Sly, this is demonstrably true. A lot of men engage in street harassment. There are studies that actually count instances.

The problem is not in the use of the words "most" or "a lot". The problem is in what's being said. If the thing you're saying is something that's been used to denigrate women, for instance, and depersonalize them, then yes, that's sexist. So:

"Most women are golddiggers": sexist.
"Most women shave their legs": not sexist, just fact.

Or, actually, let's use one that implies some sort of blame or shortcoming, but is true:

"Half of all financially-independent women who identify as feminist secretly wish a Prince Charming would come make their lives wonderful and easy." I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. Do I think it'd be a great thing, nah, not really, and it'd also be fodder for those who want to say feminists are hypocrites. But if someone did a serious study and found this, I'd say, Okay. Sad, but how it is. (I wouldn't assume that everyone was looking at me, then, and imagining that I was pining for Prince Charming.)

you tel me to quit putting words in your mouth then repeatedly do the same.

I HAVE NEVER SAID WOMEN ARE GOLD DIGGERS.

saying they want a guy to have a car, job house is not saying WOMEN ARE GOLDDIGGERS.

so if there hasn't been a study on something then it must not be true???

so until the studies show cigs called cancer no one got cancer or atleast they were valid.

and is it studies or polls. polls can be rigged. study how would one study besides asking guys, and what if they targeted or got guys who happen to do such things and the guys who don't didn't get into the study.

as for my so called sexist comments aobut what women seem to want. it was done based on my informal studdy of thousands of women.

I don't think women wanting the things I said has anything to do with prince charming, or feminism nothing.

It has more to do with society saying that is what a man should have and women raised in the society abiding by it.

Sly, please, stop this. I did not say you said this. That was my example: it's a commonly-used sexist trope. Please stop reading every example as having to do with you. That's what multiple people are trying to tell you: you are assuming people are talking about you when they are not, and have not said anything about you in their posts. If it has to do with you, I will write "Sly is ___" or "Sly does ____" or some such.

then perhaps like most people you should have said as an example ......

otherwise as you're post was a response to me it sounds like you saying I said that.

I am a men when one says most men, I am likely part of the most. as I am not the perfect fantastic few.

of all the men i've known none of done any of the things you two talk about. I can't believe a majority of guys do such things. out of 100 guys by that logic. at least some of them would have to be rapist, or sexual asualters or harassers.

this sexism stuff seems to fallow the same trend as the gun control debate. with assumptions on both sides.
what the gun control stuff has taught me is that polls and studies can be rigged or made to seem more then they are. if they can be then any study or poll could be. then theres different studdy groups. one study says a another says b.
one says the average penis is 5" the other says its 6.5" .

the fact remains saying most men do .... makes me feel horrible. its generalizing it is impossible to know most men do something without polling all men in the united states. polling men in portland can only tell you what men in portland are like and only a small number at that as most studies and polls hardly break the 5k mark.
so I will stand by my some guys do bad things but the majority likely don't.

I also never said in my post so long ago, that tarantella does or tarantella wants. yet you two took it to mean all women wanted the things I said. therefor you must want them.

I am really glad I live where I do. you all paint the rest of the nation and world to be some horrible place.

I'm never leaving my state or city.

For a majority of guys to do such things, at least 51/100 would have to do them.

But in any given sample of 100 men? Sure, I'd believe some have raped, assaulted sexually, or sexually harassed. No stretch of the imagination there. Just my own fairly ordinary experience in the world says that much, but other women's experience seems to confirm. I expect by now someone's assembled numbers.

well none of the 100 guys I've know have.

strange maybe it varries by area.

anyways I guess I'll just have to continue being sexist while you can't be sexist.

I tend to believe in the majority of people are good or the nation wouldn't exist. I hardly hear on the news about how these problems are so widespread.

I am not saying they don't happen just that I find it unlikely that a lot of guys do these things. some yes. but if it was alot then how on earth do they find wifes. why would a woman marry such a horrible person.

but it sounds like women are good and men are bad. blah blah blah.

people are bad and people are good.

I don't consider 51% a majority for me it would have to break the 75% mark. 51% is just slightly more then half. half is not a majority. half can't get their way a majority could.

anwyas I'm am done with this I hate fighting and I feel super depressed and horrible now.

I think that really depends, I mean my frat boys would harass lone guys or people who stood out in some way, like overgrown playground bullies, but there are also guys out there who do the whole 'vying for dominance' thing with any guy they perceive as a threat to their status. I've dealt with both, and IMHO it's the latter you have to watch out for, as they'll do incredibly stupid things in order to save face. I very nearly got into it with this little guy one time because a coworker and I were joking around coming out of our restaurant as he was walking by, and he thought we were laughing at him and seemed entirely intent on making a fight out of it even as we tried to defuse things, and I had to have had 6 inches and 80 lbs on the guy, to say nothing of having my friend right there too. That's one of those male behaviors that I understand on a biological level, but don't experience myself, I'm far too practical to put much value in the opinions of strangers and see far too many downsides to physical altercations to actively seek them out. I mean in my case, I know that I'll legally be held responsible no matter how things happen, but even beyond that I view pointless aggression as a lose/lose proposition.

yes for sure. That's a different thing -- not sexual harassment, just plain harassment for dominance -- but I recall walking around bad neighborhoods and thinking man, I'm glad I'm not a great big guy on my own, because I'd be a walking provocation and get my ass kicked by some gang of guys.

Ohoho, would you look at this.

tarantella and starvingartist are getting defensive and threatening to call the mods on a guy who isn't even visibly an MRA. Imagine that. I wonder how they'd react if someone... Wait. Oh, right, people have already called on them for being misandrists and implying that other members of the forums are rapists. Impressive degree of hypocrisy, people! I haven't had a show like this all week! We all know what you've said, and general consensus appears to be that you've been attempting to stealth-insult people then hide behind the rough equivalent of "Oh, but I'm on WrongPlanet! I'm not good enough at this whole socializing thing to know what implications are!"



Seriously, people, stop claiming to speak for whatever group you're claiming to speak for. Unless you're an elected representative for a large quantity of people or you have personally polled a very large sample size, you do not have a platform to stand on. Quote *unskewed* statistics that are applied to the populace at large, rather than limited sample sizes in small communities of like-minded individuals.

You cannot tell another person they are or aren't "into" someone based on what they like and don't like. You cannot tell another person that their opinions are invalid or worthless because they directly contradict your own personal beliefs, and not in a way that you can ignore or pretend to be threatened by.

I don't care what the statistics and general opinions of the public are. If you, however, attempt to misrepresent reality, then regardless of what topic it's on, you've already lost the argument and whatever you say is just blowing hot air. You cannot win in a debate by disputing the validity of something that has been verified or can be very quickly verified.

Really, the only person here who's actually winning the debate is the Face of Boo, and he's doing so by being far more patient than the entire rest of the forum (including myself) has been.

Who am I saying I'll report to mods?