so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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I've never seen street harassment here.
there is the guys who wait til the lady is far enough away and comment about how she looks f***able, hot, sexy, or look at that ass. I find all this comments uncomfortable. I also got winked at by a guy in a truck once as a woman walked by. some kind of non verbal version of the "she hot" I assume. I certainly look at women, I find them pretty or sexy I feel bad for such thoughts but I don't vocalize them

there are times though like when I see a woman wearing stuff that is so inappropriate and bordering on her being nude.

this lady came in and her shorts were down so far you could almost see her ... and she didn't seem to have underwear on either. she looked early 20's and had a baby with her. we we amazed she would dress like that.

another time there was this lady in short short shorts and a sleeveless top thingy , she was driving a convertible with the roof down. It was cold and raining. o.O I assume it was the sacrifice she makes to look hot ? o.O to be honest more concerned about the car though, such a shame.

I don't walk as much anymore though

oh oh wait when I was in high school I did get drive by street harassment. saying fat or you hot(as a joke I assume) one even drove buy did a uturn and came back for a 2nd pass and slowed down to follow us for a few minutes yelling at us from their car. this was a car full of women. in fact most often it was a woman who would yell at us as they drove by

Every now and then, but not for a while, it mostly happened back when I had a late night delivery job in the University district of Seattle, and the inebriated frat boys were out and about looking for trouble. They'd usually back off after getting a full blast of my vibe, apparently even drunken morons know that if they guy you're picking a fight with drops back into an isosceles stance and grins at you, it's in your best interest to walk away.

I've also had occasional problems with black men when I've been in public with a black girlfriend, woofing and pissing match type stuff, though I did once have a guy actually come into the restaurant that my then girlfriend and I were eating in to scream at us until the waitstaff dragged him off. I always dealt with them the same way as the frat boys, putting 'give me a reason' so clearly in my smile that even the most brain dead individual couldn't miss the message, and it never went past words.

The only heckling I've experienced as an adult was when I was walking with my Afro-Caribbean girlfriend in a predominately Afro-Caribbean neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY. They weren't too thrilled with us as a couple.

When I was in Trinidad and Tobago, I was heckled because I was walking with a guy who the hecklers thought was gay. They call gay men "batty boys" in T & T. I was also called "Yankee Boy" a couple of times.

Well - if a woman's wearing little, it's not necessarily to attract male attention, sly. Lots of us just like wearing whatever it is we're wearing (or not wearing) and we like the way we look. It's often for ourselves, not a message for you. That's one of the conversations that went on in that street-cards video.

I very often wear short skirts because I like them, and sometimes I'll be wearing a short running or tennis skirt even if it's cold out, because I've just come from working out. I'm not asking men to leer at or catcall me by doing that. Back when I lived in London, I lived near a lido where topless sunbathing was common, and it was a miraculously warm, sunny summer, so I did too. Again, I wasn't boyfriend-shopping; I was simply enjoying myself in the sun.

But I remember even Brandy Chastain going through that, when the US women's soccer team won in the '96 Olympics -- they won a tough game, she whipped off her shirt in victory and did the mighty fist-clench thing, and all these jerks were like OMG A BRA AND BOOBIES and the rest of the team vanished from the picture.

As for street harassment, a lot of guys are like, "what street harassment? I don't see any" because they're not the targets. There are a lot of stories out there of guys being seriously shocked when their gfs tell them what's going on, and I just read one recently about a guy who was all "prove it" and followed his gf at a distance. He doesn't assume she exaggerates anymore, apparently.

Yeah, I come off as an effeminate nerd (I've been mistaken for a gay guy more than once), so I'm sure that had something to do with it.

I suspect "manly men" would have less of an issue.

My mother used to get a lot of street harassment when she was walking to work in Phoenix.

She was wearing baggy hospital scrubs.

I don't think clothing has much impact on the level of street harassment a woman receives.

To get the "not all men" bit out of the way: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... ailed.html

The thing is, ows, it's not simply about you, or about "preferences", like it's a menu; it's about social standards that leave all parties safe and respected.

Say for the sake of argument that you're infallible. Take the very best case. You read it right every single time, you know when to go for the smooch and when to keep lips off. Say also for the sake of argument that we are going to build all social rules around you. So this business of "ask first" -- why, that's ridiculous, because ows knows his business.

The problem is that a large percentage of the population that is not ows does not read other people's body language correctly when it comes to inviting sexual attention (even though they may insist they do). That's part why the rape and assault statistics are so high, and why it's necessary to give advice like, "If you don't want him to kiss you, you can back away from his advance or freeze."

So this social standard that fits your own for-the-sake-of-argument infallibility -- call it the ows standard -- still isn't working so hot in general. Maybe you object to this, and would say, "No, it should just be for me, then! Because I'm really careful!" The problem is you don't go around wearing an "I'm really careful" badge. Women have no way of knowing, "Oh, I should be cool with ows just going for it with me, because he's a total stud who knows what he's doing. I shouldn't expect him to ask first."

Clearly the "just for ows" standard is ridiculous, so now, if you're still fighting this "everyone should ask before laying hands on another person they're not already involved with" thing, you back away from this to an "it's not that bad if someone makes a mistake." But here are all these women who've been raped and assaulted saying, "No, that's not true. This damaged my life, and every time a guy feels entitled to paw me without asking, I have to live it again."

So okay, you retreat from that, and go to, "But a lot of women don't want to be asked." Well, we've taken care of that, too. One, if a woman's going to dump you because you asked, she wasn't all that into you in the first place. But beyond that, a lot of women *do* want to be asked. So by asking, the worst that happens is that a woman who wanted mindreading and wasn't really into you dumps you; by not asking, the worst that happens is that you re-traumatize one of the 1-in-4 women (more outside the US) who didn't actually want to be touched just then. It seems to me the major downside is with not asking.

And that's before you get to all the stuff to do with mutual respect.

Since you still haven't talked about why this point is so important to you, I've been wondering whether this is an issue of competence and recognition for you: you know, here's this thing you're good at, recognize you for it! Maybe that's it, maybe not. But if that's what it is -- well, see from beginning.

Finally, let's please ditch this "spontaneous" thing. Asking is also spontaneous. Touching someone without permission has nothing to do with spontaneity and romance that asking doesn't also have.

You're probably right. I never got as much tank-force harassment and solicitation as when I looked like hell -- baggy, saggy clothes, disheveled hair, totally strung out at the beginning of my divorce (my ex wasn't well, and for a time we weren't sure he actually had filed, and if so, in what county). I had guys in the coffeeshop I'd been going to for years totally unmolested suddenly asking me, right there, for sex. I think the perception of vulnerability has more of an effect, you look like easier prey.

where did I say you or other women did????

though I have known some women who do wear certain clothes to attract attention of guys. they said they liked the attention but don't want it to go further.

I think there is a point when it becomes too short or too nothing or is it ok for me to wear short tight clothing that would make my penis very evident? no of course not cause people would be like think of the children, so its ok for kids to see a woman's breasts and vagina but not a mans penis. I think both are wrong.

until boobs are desexualized in western culture you must accept people will find a woman taking her shirt off and only having a bra sexual. if done around friends I don't see a problem with it if they did it in the stadium then I would feel uncomfortable. though you're post doesn't make it clear if it was vocal or just them staring at her chest.

what is leering how is it different then looking? makes me feel like looking at a woman is bad, women and men do it and can't be helped. if you wear a short skit and I notice I will look then look away. I might look again but I do try my best not to.
really can't help it much as women staring at a shirtless guy mowing his lawn can't.

so they are blind? I've seen videos of street harassment like construction works whistling or saying stuff. it is pretty clear.
just cause It doesn't happen near as much here as it does where you live doesn't mean I ignore it or don't notice it. it could just mean it doesn't happen here. we also don't have gang problem where LA does.

much like gang problem I have no doubt street harassment happens especially in the big cities with over a million population.

If my gf told me it happen to her I wouldn't ask her to prove it, why would she lie. though I tend to be honest, and take people at face value. I don't perceive why people would lie about such things.



then I don't want to here you complain about some guy saying most women, women, some women, etc is sexist.

for the same reasons you say those things are we say saying a lot of men or most men or men is.

growing tired of coming here and leaving feeling like I'm a rapist, or harasser, or murder. I really don't need that added onto my already feeling like a horrible human that should kill myself.

for the last time, no one is calling you a rapist or implying that you are a rapist. no one is trying to make you feel like a rapist. if women talking about their own experiences of harassment at the hands of other men that aren't you makes you feel like a rapist for some reason, maybe you should talk to a therapist about that. no one here wants you to feel that way so i don't know why you keep assuming that we do.

a woman saying I was raped or I get street harassed is not the problem
a woman saying most men rape or a lot of men do street harassment is.

I don't get how you are such a hypocrite

you made me away how generalizing about women could come accross as hurtful and sexist , why can't you see it the other way.

stop saying all these things i didn't say! i never said most men rape. if you call me a hypocrite again for something i never said i will report you to the mods.

sly, please stop reading more than people are writing.

Nobody's called you a rapist.
Nobody's said you're telling women they're exaggerating.

You can wear whatever you like so long as you abide by local ordinances. In New York that means you can run around naked doing performance art on the sidewalk. Here, not so much.

I do have control over my own eyes. So if I see a very handsome man, you'd better believe I'm careful with those eyes. Same when I'm with students. I work with some very beautiful young people, men and women, and I am absolutely *not* there to objectify them, gratify myself by having a good stare. They're coming to my office for help with their work, not to be turned into eye candy. Doesn't matter what they're wearing or not wearing.

Sly, this is demonstrably true. A lot of men engage in street harassment. There are studies that actually count instances.

The problem is not in the use of the words "most" or "a lot". The problem is in what's being said. If the thing you're saying is something that's been used to denigrate women, for instance, and depersonalize them, then yes, that's sexist. So:

"Most women are golddiggers": sexist.
"Most women shave their legs": not sexist, just fact.

Or, actually, let's use one that implies some sort of blame or shortcoming, but is true:

"Half of all financially-independent women who identify as feminist secretly wish a Prince Charming would come make their lives wonderful and easy." I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. Do I think it'd be a great thing, nah, not really, and it'd also be fodder for those who want to say feminists are hypocrites. But if someone did a serious study and found this, I'd say, Okay. Sad, but how it is. (I wouldn't assume that everyone was looking at me, then, and imagining that I was pining for Prince Charming.)

you tel me to quit putting words in your mouth then repeatedly do the same.

I HAVE NEVER SAID WOMEN ARE GOLD DIGGERS.

saying they want a guy to have a car, job house is not saying WOMEN ARE GOLDDIGGERS.

so if there hasn't been a study on something then it must not be true???

so until the studies show cigs called cancer no one got cancer or atleast they were valid.

and is it studies or polls. polls can be rigged. study how would one study besides asking guys, and what if they targeted or got guys who happen to do such things and the guys who don't didn't get into the study.

as for my so called sexist comments aobut what women seem to want. it was done based on my informal studdy of thousands of women.

I don't think women wanting the things I said has anything to do with prince charming, or feminism nothing.

It has more to do with society saying that is what a man should have and women raised in the society abiding by it.