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The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Aug 2014, 12:53 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
People who want to exterminate do not hand over large chunks of land next door and baby industries to the people they purportedly want to wipe out. It just does not happen. Please find one incidence of it in the history of mankind.


And tarantella, you are so naive btw, Israel was forced to hand over whatever; Israel has masters and big players to appease too - it's not Israel's idea, it's not because you Zionist are oh-...such tender nice guys, lol we've told you that a million of times.



AspergianMutantt
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10 Aug 2014, 12:57 pm

What is "bluewashing and pinkwashing"?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Aug 2014, 1:29 pm

Quote:
Abstract
The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.




Quote:
Palestinians and Other Middle East and
European People
Palestinians are close to Egyptians, Lebanese, Iranians,
Cretans, Macedonians and Sardinians, and also to
Algerians, Spaniards, French, Italians and Basques
(Table 3, Figures 4, 5, and 6). DRB1 genetic distances
(Table 1) are probably the most reliable ones due to the
higher polymorphism detected in this locus. The western
and eastern Mediteranean populations are intermingled
in this case; it supports the long-standing prehistoric and
historic circum-Mediteranean gene flow [32]. Jews,
Cretans, Egyptians, Iranians, Turks and Armenians are
probably the closest relatives to Palestinians and this
favors the hypothesis that most of the HLA [b]Palestinian
genetic background comes from the Middle East (ancient
Canaan, [6]), ancient stock, i.e.: ancient Canaanites
.[/b]


http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

How ironic eh?


Also this study debunks the radical Jewish claim that the ancient Canaanites of Palestine were totally exterminated by the Hebrews and therefore the nowadays Palestinians are just descendants of Arabs - hence newer to the land than the Hebrews. Radical Jews and Christians (evangs) falsely insist that there were very few of survivors of the Canaanites, why they do that? Of course because they are stupid zealots who believe everything in the bible and also to make the Palestinians "less indigenous".



tarantella64
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10 Aug 2014, 5:04 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
People who want to exterminate do not hand over large chunks of land next door and baby industries to the people they purportedly want to wipe out. It just does not happen. Please find one incidence of it in the history of mankind.


And tarantella, you are so naive btw, Israel was forced to hand over whatever; Israel has masters and big players to appease too - it's not Israel's idea, it's not because you Zionist are oh-...such tender nice guys, lol we've told you that a million of times.


We've been around this track. The Israelis seem to be a dab hand at telling the US to f**k off when the US wants them to do something they judge to be against their own interests. If the intent had been to wipe out Palestinians, they'd have been gone long ago. The intent is not to wipe out Palestinians or deny them a place to live. The intent is to live without a terrorist state next door. This is really not hard to understand unless you're busy dining on conspiracy theories about how the Israelis want to take over the region.



tarantella64
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10 Aug 2014, 5:05 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Abstract
The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.




Quote:
Palestinians and Other Middle East and
European People
Palestinians are close to Egyptians, Lebanese, Iranians,
Cretans, Macedonians and Sardinians, and also to
Algerians, Spaniards, French, Italians and Basques
(Table 3, Figures 4, 5, and 6). DRB1 genetic distances
(Table 1) are probably the most reliable ones due to the
higher polymorphism detected in this locus. The western
and eastern Mediteranean populations are intermingled
in this case; it supports the long-standing prehistoric and
historic circum-Mediteranean gene flow [32]. Jews,
Cretans, Egyptians, Iranians, Turks and Armenians are
probably the closest relatives to Palestinians and this
favors the hypothesis that most of the HLA [b]Palestinian
genetic background comes from the Middle East (ancient
Canaan, [6]), ancient stock, i.e.: ancient Canaanites
.[/b]


http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

How ironic eh?


Also this study debunks the radical Jewish claim that the ancient Canaanites of Palestine were totally exterminated by the Hebrews and therefore the nowadays Palestinians are just descendants of Arabs - hence newer to the land than the Hebrews. Radical Jews and Christians (evangs) falsely insist that there were very few of survivors of the Canaanites, why they do that? Of course because they are stupid zealots who believe everything in the bible and also to make the Palestinians "less indigenous".


Who are you even talking to? Are you tuning to your space beams?



eric76
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10 Aug 2014, 8:33 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Total victory is probably the only thing that could bring peace


I think that the only thing that could bring peace is for all sides to get so sick of war that peace seems to be the best option. Until then, they are going to keep fighting each other.



Stannis
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10 Aug 2014, 9:18 pm

Do Palestinians really want to live there? Why don't countries around the world just take a share of the palestinian population as citizens. Problem solved.



eric76
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10 Aug 2014, 9:28 pm

Stannis wrote:
Do Palestinians really want to live there? Why don't countries around the world just take a share of the palestinian population as citizens. Problem solved.


The Palestinians and the Israelis must learn how to get along. Until they do that, nothing is solved.



tarantella64
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10 Aug 2014, 10:10 pm

Stannis wrote:
Do Palestinians really want to live there? Why don't countries around the world just take a share of the palestinian population as citizens. Problem solved.


Yeah...they've been specifically not anxious to do that since 1967. Brotherhood, and all.



Humanaut
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10 Aug 2014, 11:03 pm

eric76 wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Total victory is probably the only thing that could bring peace


I think that the only thing that could bring peace is for all sides to get so sick of war that peace seems to be the best option.

You only have to break the will of the aggressor.



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Aug 2014, 2:32 am

Tarantella, go check the internet, there are so many many sources of pro Israel, not necessarily religious, who try hard to prove that Palestinians are Arab newcomers to this land, thro history anaylsis rather than genetic, and therefore aren't much native for this land.

But such genetic studies do prove them wrong and prove that Palestinians aren't just Arabs, but are mixture of ancient peoples who lived on this land, Canaanites being the most ancient one.
Arabism was simply the most recent linguistic (and bit genetic) layer.
It's the same case of Lebanese/Syrians; hell our spoken dialect is about 40% Syriac.
But hey, it's not all that bad for you, those studies also strongly indicate that jews are our relatives too; so that prove wrong for those who deny that.

My previous post was a response to the youtube video as well; there's no point in Canaan history where a whole population was totally wiped out and replaced by newcomers and their DNA proves that they are continuum of ancient peoples.


I am talking facts, not conspiracies, so stop belittling my posts.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 11 Aug 2014, 4:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

0_equals_true
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11 Aug 2014, 3:44 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Tarantella, go check the internet, there are so many many sources of pro Israel, not necessarily religious, who try hard to prove that Palestinians are Arab newcomers to this land, thro history anaylsis rather than genetic, and therefore aren't much native for this land.

But such genetic studies do prove them wrong and prove that Palestinians aren't just Arabs, but are mixture of ancient peoples who lived on this land, Canaanites being the most ancient one.
Arabism was simply the most recent linguistic (and bit genetic) layer.
It's the same case of Lebanese/Syrians; hell our spoken dialect is about 40% Syriac.
But hey, it's not all that bad for you, those studies also strongly indicate that jews are our relatives too; so that prove wrong for those who deny that.

My previous post was a response to the youtube video as well; there's no point of Canaan history where a whole population was totally wiped out and replaced by newcomers and their DNA proves that they are continium of ancient peoples.


I am talking facts, not conspiracies, so stop belittling my posts.



This is true, but Arabness comes from the Arabian peninsular, and there also genetics relating to that and Turkish and Persian as well as Semite. Like I said there are actually tribal connections to the Arabian peninsular in some cases,. They knew of Lawrence of Arabia, well. Their nationalism at that time stemmed from Arab nationalism, not Palestinian nationalism, and I would argue it still does equally. The word Palestine actually come from and Egyptian and Hebrew "Plesheth" which actually what we call Philistine. The Philistine were actually a different people. But tit does allude to migratory/transient people. You might say the Bedouin are the closest to that description at least traditionally.

Yazidis, Kurds, Assyrian Christians these are not Arabs. But those that identify with Arab culture are. You could argue the Yemenite Jews are Arab. They come from the Arabian peninsular after all, some may identify as such, others may dispute this. It is fair to say the Palestinians overall identify as Arab. The Druze don't, the Bedouin sometimes dispute being Arab, and certainly Palestinian. The Christians didn't used to but go caught up in the who Arab nationalism, Nasserist, Baathist nonsense (which was really a pretext for minorities stuck in an existential battle to rule with an iron fist, and a counter to the other form of inhumanity which is the ayatollahs,sheiks and emirates). Once you get out of the Holy Land / Levant Christians are less likely to identify as Arab.

The point is Palestinians have never really ruled over themselves, and they were given a golden opportunity in 1947 and squandered it.

In 1947 Gaza wasn't a strip it touched the West Bank. That meant that both Israel and Palestinian territories had pretty much the same deal, no one side controlled the centre, they has the same access to the Mediterranean, and the the East. But then then Arab nations attacked Israel, much like Hamas is trying to do now. In fact the Arab view back then is near identical to Hamas today. Consider how well they could have done if they had made peace then.

If the Palestinians are so close to the Jews, why make enemies with them? The reality is this is less about the villages that we displaced (which actually they were allowed to stay until they decided to fight). This is about religion, this about control of the holy land.



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Aug 2014, 4:48 am

Quote:
Like I said there are actually tribal connections to the Arabian peninsular in some cases,.


And those are only few families, in Lebanon for example you are talking only about the "Siyyed" ( Few Shi'a families who claim ancestry to Mohammad), the clans of the Beqaa valley who are all descendants of Al Hamadiyah clan, an old Arabian clan in Jordan and they still have very distinct customs in business and relationships as their own law ie. honor killing - which why they often clash with the local authorities. While most of them are religious Shi'a, even Hezbollah has failed to totally assimilate them and often clashed with them as well. There are also the Bedouins, who also have almost the same clan code.
But all of those are a minority and aren't much more than Armenians for example.


Quote:
Their nationalism at that time stemmed from Arab nationalism, not Palestinian nationalism


Arab nationalism was a political phase claiming that all Arabized peoples are totally Arabs, there are also movements, like the Phalanges and SSNP, who claim that we aren't Arabs at all and we are 100% descendants of Canaanites/Phoenicians.

Both sides are being political, baseless and false.


Anyway, Mr. duck, if you take a look at these studies you realize that what's "Semitic" and "Not Semitic" is more a matter of linguistic/cultural grouping rather than genetic/tribal; Iranian, Turks and Armenians aren't that far from us genetically.



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Aug 2014, 5:05 am

Duck, there's a very very little known of the Philistines and they are almost only mentioned in the Torah as being in direct conflict with ancient Israelites.



Quote:
Biblical archaeology has focused on identifying archaeological evidence for the Philistines. According to Israel Finkelstein, archaeological research to date has been unable to corroborate a mass settlement of Philistines during the Ramesses III era.[10] Archaeological references in Egyptian texts, and later in Assyrian texts, to "Peleset" or "Palashtu" appear from c.1150 BCE, just as archaeological references to "Kinaḫḫu" or "Ka-na-na" (Canaan) come to an end.[11]




Israel Finkelstein, Is The Philistine Paradigm Still Viable?, in: Bietak, M., (Ed.), The Synchronisation of Civilisations in the Eastern Mediterranean in the Second Millennium B. C. III. Proceedings of the SCIEM 2000 ? 2nd Euro- Conference, Vienna, 28th of May?1st of June 2003, Denkschriften der Ge- samtakademie 37, Contributions to the Chronology of the Eastern Mediterranean 9, Vienna 2007, pages 517?524. Quote:

"SUMMARY Was there a Sea Peoples migration to the coast of the Levant? Yes. Was it a maritime migration? Possibly. Was there a massive maritime Sea Peoples invasion? Probably not. Did the Philistines settle en-mass in Philistia in the days of Ramesses III? No. Were the Iron I Philistine cities fortified? No. Were the Iron I Philistines organized in a peer-polity system? Probably not. Was there a Philistine Pentapolis system in the Iron I? No. Are the Iron I Philistines the Philistines described in the Bible? No."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines#Population

Philistines were probably of the Sea peoples and were mixed and assimilated by the Canaanite culture which was already existing there.



Back to the study, it's very interesting to see how genetically close Moroccan-Jews to Lebanese compared to other Moroccans; I've read earlier a theory saying that North African and Spanish Jews are possibly descendants of Carthaginians, who have adopted the Jewish religion when Judaism totally replaced the Canaanite religion (after the fall of Carthage, the last Canaanite civilization) in their ancient homeland of Canaan.



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11 Aug 2014, 5:51 am

I believe Moroccan Jews are Spanish/Sephardic Jews, from the Inquisition. Not certain but I think so.

It is funny that Morraco is sometimes called the middle east when it more west than most of Europe. I call it North Africa.

In Jamaica I knew some Jews, who had been there longer then the British. These were Spanish and Portuguese Jews they had descended from. In the main synagogue thy had a sandpit I was told, which is pretty unusual. It is to symbolize soft ground so they could escape silently, from the Inquisitors. I'm not sure if you had to walk across it to get in.

Well of course genetically you are Caucasian mostly. We all moved all about the place, back and forth.

Early man actually left Africa and would have traveled through your region.