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Sigbold
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29 Jul 2014, 12:33 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
World War I revolved, basically, around Nationalism.


It was more Imperialism then nationalism.

bleh12345 wrote:
Why did the USA get involved? Why does the USA always seem to get involved in certain wars last minute? -.-


Because then you are in stronger position to make demands for your participation. Even more so if the already fighting parties are nearing exhaustion and do not have the ability anymore to gain anything more then a stalemate. Also considering WOI both the UK and France had made huge war debts with the USA, which the later could use as leverage for their demands. If they where involved earlier more of those available credit would have to be used to fund their own war effort.



beneficii
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29 Jul 2014, 1:53 am

Sigbold wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
World War I revolved, basically, around Nationalism.


It was more Imperialism then nationalism.

bleh12345 wrote:
Why did the USA get involved? Why does the USA always seem to get involved in certain wars last minute? -.-


Because then you are in stronger position to make demands for your participation. Even more so if the already fighting parties are nearing exhaustion and do not have the ability anymore to gain anything more then a stalemate. Also considering WOI both the UK and France had made huge war debts with the USA, which the later could use as leverage for their demands. If they where involved earlier more of those available credit would have to be used to fund their own war effort.


I don't know if the U.S. was that deliberate. Non-intervention and avoiding entangling alliances had always been a pretty strong force in U.S. politics ever since President Washington's farewell address. President Wilson campaigned for his re-election in 1916 by his campaign saying, "He kept us out of the war." Also, in World War II, the U.S. got involved at a time when things looked the bleakest for the Allies, fairly early on, and there was no guarantee of victory. Cracking the encryption codes of the Axis Powers was really what gave the Allies a leg up.


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Kraichgauer
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29 Jul 2014, 3:03 pm

Woodrow Wilson's fight to "make the world safe for Democracy," was his wartime slogan, but his wartime domestic policy left much to be desired on that front. Americans of German extraction were labeled as potential enemies, unleashing violence and discrimination directed against them (a young German American man had been lynched by a blood mad crowd, and the judge ruled in favor of the perpetrators, saying it was a patriotic murder). As pacifists were labeled and treated as enemies, so were the socialists they were often associated with, and saw their newspapers shut down. Organized labor like the Industrial Workers of the World (the IWW, or Wobblies) refused to give up their right to collective bargaining or going on strike during the war, and so were called Imperial Wilhelm's Warriors when the government crackdown came (they became communists in the eyes of the Wilson administration as soon as the Bolsheviks withdrew Russian forces from the war). Labor leader Eugen Debbs was sent to prison for violating the Espionage Act (about the grossest miscarriage of constitutional rights this country has ever see) by the Wilson administration, and was only freed by Wilson's Republican successor. Soon, blacks were being accused of harboring Pro-German sympathies, and soon after that, a new surge of nativism against immigrants emerged. It's no surprise that the Progressive Era that Wilson had ridden in on had died during this phase of his presidency, and with it a new upsurge of the radical right, with deportations of "radical" immigrants, the crack down on the gains by organized labor, the first Red Scare, and the rise of a nationally powerful KKK.


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29 Jul 2014, 7:17 pm

It was the first war fought with innovative technology. The tank was a significant invention, even though it never lived up to its promise. (They were too slow, and thus made easy targets.) Mortars were used for the first time by the Germans and were deadly efficient. Everyone knows about the aircraft battles, but most don't know about the aerial bombing of London. Gas was another terror weapon.


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29 Jul 2014, 8:11 pm

Wars were fought with 'innovative technology' ever since the Hittites experiment with heavy chariots to counter the Pharoah's fast light chariots three thousand years ago. Actually ever since Amoebas learned to engulf paramecia with psuedopodia billions of years ago.

But they started the 1914 war with new unprecedented technology, and innovated more technology as the war progressed at a rapid rate.

The war kicked off with new truly big gun heavy artillery, and with machine guns, which caused the war to become the stalemated war of attrition in the trenches that favored defense. As the war progressed they came up with grotesque innovations like poison gas (my granddad survived being gassed on the battlefield of France). They bombed London using Zeppilins, and later with heavier than air gotha bombers. Submarines proved deadly, and were able to sink millions of tons of merchant shipping (including the British luxury liner Lusitanania with 1100 killed -including almost 200 americans- helping to persuade American public opinion to favor intervention on the side of the allies. Kinda the Malaysian airline of that time.

Finnally in the final months- they came up with surper precise artillery. That enabled the use of the "walking barrage"( using big guns to rain shells like a curtain in front of your advancing infantry). That tactic combined with the crude tanks they had recently invented to finally break the trench deadlock and enabled war to become mobile again.



Humanaut
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30 Jul 2014, 1:05 am

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
It was the first war fought with innovative technology. The tank was a significant invention, even though it never lived up to its promise.

With the exception of the Renault FT.



mr_bigmouth_502
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30 Jul 2014, 3:22 am

Much like WWII, we were on the frontlines of WWI before the Americans, though that was mainly because we still had close ties with Britain at the time, and as soon as they went, we went as well. I believe one of my distant ancestors on my mom's side actually fought in the war. As far as wars go, I've heard that WWI in particular was quite brutal and bloody, especially with the chemical weapons and trench warfare.

WWII was a "bigger" event, but somehow the idea of WWI itself just seems more harsh and depressing to me. I mean, WWII had the concentration camps and such, but the actual warfare itself, aside from the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, just seems "cleaner". Either that, or my image of it has been warped by too many movies and video games. Either way, I wouldn't have wanted to be a soldier in either war, and I am grateful for all the people who lost their lives protecting our freedoms in these wars.



Kraichgauer
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30 Jul 2014, 3:48 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Much like WWII, we were on the frontlines of WWI before the Americans, though that was mainly because we still had close ties with Britain at the time, and as soon as they went, we went as well. I believe one of my distant ancestors on my mom's side actually fought in the war. As far as wars go, I've heard that WWI in particular was quite brutal and bloody, especially with the chemical weapons and trench warfare.

WWII was a "bigger" event, but somehow the idea of WWI itself just seems more harsh and depressing to me. I mean, WWII had the concentration camps and such, but the actual warfare itself, aside from the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, just seems "cleaner". Either that, or my image of it has been warped by too many movies and video games. Either way, I wouldn't have wanted to be a soldier in either war, and I am grateful for all the people who lost their lives protecting our freedoms in these wars.


The Eastern Front during WWII saw a whole lot of dirty, bloody fighting, with both sides behaving abominably.


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Humanaut
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30 Jul 2014, 3:59 am

The Pacific War was pretty brutal too.



mr_bigmouth_502
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30 Jul 2014, 5:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Much like WWII, we were on the frontlines of WWI before the Americans, though that was mainly because we still had close ties with Britain at the time, and as soon as they went, we went as well. I believe one of my distant ancestors on my mom's side actually fought in the war. As far as wars go, I've heard that WWI in particular was quite brutal and bloody, especially with the chemical weapons and trench warfare.

WWII was a "bigger" event, but somehow the idea of WWI itself just seems more harsh and depressing to me. I mean, WWII had the concentration camps and such, but the actual warfare itself, aside from the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, just seems "cleaner". Either that, or my image of it has been warped by too many movies and video games. Either way, I wouldn't have wanted to be a soldier in either war, and I am grateful for all the people who lost their lives protecting our freedoms in these wars.


The Eastern Front during WWII saw a whole lot of dirty, bloody fighting, with both sides behaving abominably.


That makes sense. I've heard that the Russians were quite bloodthirsty in WWII, as much as nobody likes to admit since they were sort of on our side.



kraftiekortie
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30 Jul 2014, 8:56 am

Yeah....they were bloodthirsty, to THEMSELVES, primarily.



Humanaut
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30 Jul 2014, 9:02 am

You're referring to Order No. 270?



Kraichgauer
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30 Jul 2014, 1:34 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yeah....they were bloodthirsty, to THEMSELVES, primarily.


They were pretty bloodthirsty to captured Germans, whether they had personally committed atrocities or not.


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Jacoby
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30 Jul 2014, 10:06 pm

WWI set the stage for WWII, if the US didn't intervene then then the harsh terms set upon Germany never happen and Hitler doesn't come to power in 32. Without WWI then the middle east wouldn't be so messed up. Woodrow Wilson was an evil man.



mr_bigmouth_502
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30 Jul 2014, 11:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yeah....they were bloodthirsty, to THEMSELVES, primarily.


Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Not saying Hitler wasn't an evil man, but people tend to overlook just how brutal Stalin was.



Kraichgauer
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30 Jul 2014, 11:11 pm

Jacoby wrote:
WWI set the stage for WWII, if the US didn't intervene then then the harsh terms set upon Germany never happen and Hitler doesn't come to power in 32. Without WWI then the middle east wouldn't be so messed up. Woodrow Wilson was an evil man.


Or at least the unintended results of his actions were. I think Wilson viewed the world through the rose colored lenses of his idealism, which hardly fit with reality. Then again, he certainly had an evil side to his character, regarding his wartime domestic policy which I wrote about, and his own personal racism which he used to justify bringing Jim Crow to Washington DC.


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