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Life on Other Planets and the Existence of God

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Kraichgauer
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03 Aug 2014, 1:40 am

I think it very probable, if not likely, that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe - some coexisting with us in this very day and age, some living long before our race ever arose, while others might appear long after we're gone. I have no problem with God doing such a thing as creating life elsewhere, with perhaps the experiment working out a dam sight better than here, while in other places they are possibly considerably worse.


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wowiexist
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03 Aug 2014, 1:03 pm

I suppose if life on other planets were discovered it would not necessarily mean there was not a creator. It may just discount the typical religious notion that the creator put most of his attention on Earth. I think that if life is discovered on other planets people might talk about this topic more, and it will become a big debate between the atheists/agnostics and the religious.



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03 Aug 2014, 2:34 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Goldilocks planets are rare, and there's a very short time frame where life can originate in the first place.

Where life as we know it can originate.


Lifeforms on other planets probably have the same bottlenecks as life on earth. There are many inhospitable places on earth where no extremophiles thrive (many places in Antarctica are completely lifeless). Bacteria need at least -20 degrees celsius to reproduce, and no lifeform can survive more than 121 degrees celcius for an extended period of time. Advanced lifeforms were only possible after oxygen became abundant (notice how there aren't any advanced lifeforms where there's no oxygen).

The sun is a young star, and there were many similar stars billions of years before it even existed. If intelligent life was abundant, extraterrestrial time capsules similar to Voyager would also be abundant.


You are still thinking of life as we know it....what applies to life forms on this planet does not necessarily apply to anything outside this planet. Also sometimes the human mind doesn't see things for what they really are, if its beyond our known concepts.


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03 Aug 2014, 2:40 pm

What if some of the 'gods' people have worshipped in history where aliens mistaken for gods....I mean would ancient people perceive it as technologically advanced beings from another world or gods?


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Kurgan
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03 Aug 2014, 3:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Goldilocks planets are rare, and there's a very short time frame where life can originate in the first place.

Where life as we know it can originate.


Lifeforms on other planets probably have the same bottlenecks as life on earth. There are many inhospitable places on earth where no extremophiles thrive (many places in Antarctica are completely lifeless). Bacteria need at least -20 degrees celsius to reproduce, and no lifeform can survive more than 121 degrees celcius for an extended period of time. Advanced lifeforms were only possible after oxygen became abundant (notice how there aren't any advanced lifeforms where there's no oxygen).

The sun is a young star, and there were many similar stars billions of years before it even existed. If intelligent life was abundant, extraterrestrial time capsules similar to Voyager would also be abundant.


You are still thinking of life as we know it....what applies to life forms on this planet does not necessarily apply to anything outside this planet. Also sometimes the human mind doesn't see things for what they really are, if its beyond our known concepts.


But if life can adapt to more harsh conditions on other planets, why are there no permanent lifeforms near Vostok in Antarctica, or in the Atacama desert of Argentina? No advanced lifeforms known (and even earthworms are more advanced than the vast majority of life) can thrive where there's no oxygen, in the Dead Sea, or near hot springs with more than 121 degrees celcius. The conditions required for life to thrive are extremely strict, and if life won't thrive in the harshest conditions on earth--despite the extreme diversity and adaptability of life as we know it--it won't thrive in similar conditions on other planets either.


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03 Aug 2014, 4:28 pm

Habitats for thermophiles on Earth are not very stable due to seismic activity. This will of course impact the evolutionary process. Seismic conditions on other planets (all else being equal) might be more stable.



Jono
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03 Aug 2014, 4:56 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Goldilocks planets are rare, and there's a very short time frame where life can originate in the first place.

Where life as we know it can originate.


Lifeforms on other planets probably have the same bottlenecks as life on earth. There are many inhospitable places on earth where no extremophiles thrive (many places in Antarctica are completely lifeless). Bacteria need at least -20 degrees celsius to reproduce, and no lifeform can survive more than 121 degrees celcius for an extended period of time. Advanced lifeforms were only possible after oxygen became abundant (notice how there aren't any advanced lifeforms where there's no oxygen).

The sun is a young star, and there were many similar stars billions of years before it even existed. If intelligent life was abundant, extraterrestrial time capsules similar to Voyager would also be abundant.


You are still thinking of life as we know it....what applies to life forms on this planet does not necessarily apply to anything outside this planet. Also sometimes the human mind doesn't see things for what they really are, if its beyond our known concepts.


But if life can adapt to more harsh conditions on other planets, why are there no permanent lifeforms near Vostok in Antarctica, or in the Atacama desert of Argentina? No advanced lifeforms known (and even earthworms are more advanced than the vast majority of life) can thrive where there's no oxygen, in the Dead Sea, or near hot springs with more than 121 degrees celcius. The conditions required for life to thrive are extremely strict, and if life won't thrive in the harshest conditions on earth--despite the extreme diversity and adaptability of life as we know it--it won't thrive in similar conditions on other planets either.


Life can exist, and in fact sometimes does exist, in all those places that you've mentioned. Look up extremophiles. Also, there is actually possible microbial life in lake Vostok in Antarctica.



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03 Aug 2014, 5:54 pm

Interesting lecture on extremophiles by astrobiologist Lynn Rothschild:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8XiOROwYlo[/youtube]



Kurgan
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03 Aug 2014, 9:22 pm

Jono wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Goldilocks planets are rare, and there's a very short time frame where life can originate in the first place.

Where life as we know it can originate.


Lifeforms on other planets probably have the same bottlenecks as life on earth. There are many inhospitable places on earth where no extremophiles thrive (many places in Antarctica are completely lifeless). Bacteria need at least -20 degrees celsius to reproduce, and no lifeform can survive more than 121 degrees celcius for an extended period of time. Advanced lifeforms were only possible after oxygen became abundant (notice how there aren't any advanced lifeforms where there's no oxygen).

The sun is a young star, and there were many similar stars billions of years before it even existed. If intelligent life was abundant, extraterrestrial time capsules similar to Voyager would also be abundant.


You are still thinking of life as we know it....what applies to life forms on this planet does not necessarily apply to anything outside this planet. Also sometimes the human mind doesn't see things for what they really are, if its beyond our known concepts.


But if life can adapt to more harsh conditions on other planets, why are there no permanent lifeforms near Vostok in Antarctica, or in the Atacama desert of Argentina? No advanced lifeforms known (and even earthworms are more advanced than the vast majority of life) can thrive where there's no oxygen, in the Dead Sea, or near hot springs with more than 121 degrees celcius. The conditions required for life to thrive are extremely strict, and if life won't thrive in the harshest conditions on earth--despite the extreme diversity and adaptability of life as we know it--it won't thrive in similar conditions on other planets either.


Life can exist, and in fact sometimes does exist, in all those places that you've mentioned. Look up extremophiles. Also, there is actually possible microbial life in lake Vostok in Antarctica.


Bacteria and archae can't reproduce in less than -20 degrees celcius. No extremophiles can survive more than a few hours in temperatures higher than 121 degrees celcius. There's no free lunch for life.

Lake Vostok has an average temperature estimated to be -3 degrees celcius (below the freezing point because of the pressure). Geothermal heat may mean that it's slightly higher than that, though. Like I said: Primitive life is probably abundant in the universe. Few (if any) extremophiles are highly developed.


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10 Aug 2014, 1:50 am

wowiexist wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has ever thought about this or not, but I think whether or not there is life on other planets is important to consider when it comes to the existence of God or some creator. Most religious people would argue that Earth and humans were the most important of God's creation and what he focused on, and that is why that is the only place there is life. They would argue that life originated because of God even if they agree with the theory of evolution. With such a vast universe it seems like it would be likely for similar conditions to the origin of life on Earth could happen somewhere else on some other planet in the universe. The non-religious argue that humans are not that important to the overall universe, and that life on other planets, especially some kind of other advance life form, would prove that. Does this make sense to anyone else?


God created loads of animals and angels according to the Bible, so why would it matter what location they were made in or live? If neither height, nor depth, nor angels, nor demons can keep us from the love of God, then such things as distance from this one rock world matter not. Also, in the Psalms one verse had even stated that mankind is lower than the angels - and there is suppose to be no redemption possible for them, so I see nothing wrong with the existence of aliens. To have a doctrine against them existing seems a bit silly and, if we ever develop the technology to get out to other star systems and one of them happens to be inhabited, then the doctrines will just be modified anyway and the next group of theologians will croon about how their doctrine has been plainly visible and right all along. Flip a coin, it's easier than caring sometimes.



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10 Aug 2014, 7:21 am

Kurgan wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Goldilocks planets are rare, and there's a very short time frame where life can originate in the first place.

Where life as we know it can originate.


Lifeforms on other planets probably have the same bottlenecks as life on earth. There are many inhospitable places on earth where no extremophiles thrive (many places in Antarctica are completely lifeless). Bacteria need at least -20 degrees celsius to reproduce, and no lifeform can survive more than 121 degrees celcius for an extended period of time. Advanced lifeforms were only possible after oxygen became abundant (notice how there aren't any advanced lifeforms where there's no oxygen).

The sun is a young star, and there were many similar stars billions of years before it even existed. If intelligent life was abundant, extraterrestrial time capsules similar to Voyager would also be abundant.


Maybe they are, but Voyager just travels really slowly compared to the distances. It could just mean that any other civilisations have not been able to do spaceflight with speed to make spaceflight practical (which may be completely impossible).
Also, newer star systems may have more diverse material in them, more heavier elements than the earliest stars and star systems. Maybe that helped to create life here.



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10 Aug 2014, 10:33 am

We couldnt detect Voyager I or II if they werent beaming directly at us on a known frequency. Too small, too far. We haven't even discovered all of the near earth objects that could hit Earth. There are billions if not trillions of small objects in the solar system that we have no idea about.

A small probe could fly right through the solar system and we wouldn't know a thing about it. Captain Kirk might have that capability but we don't.



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11 Aug 2014, 7:55 am

1:God's universe is infinite, so says the bible.
2:The bible never mentions anything related to aliens at all.
3:So, by default, the bible implies there is most likely alien life in some form in this galaxy, for certain in the next.

God created aliens too! :P


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Kraichgauer
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11 Aug 2014, 9:58 am

For those literalists who say there is no alien life because the Bible doesn't explicitly say their is any, the Bible also makes no mention of the American continents. Does that mean I am standing above the ocean in an illusion? Or is the North American landmass a creation of the devil in order to mislead my faith? :P


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11 Aug 2014, 11:19 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
For those literalists who say there is no alien life because the Bible doesn't explicitly say their is any, the Bible also :lol: makes no mention of the American continents. Does that mean I am standing above the ocean in an illusion? Or is the North American landmass a creation of the devil in order to mislead my faith? :P
It must be! :lol:


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11 Aug 2014, 11:35 am

The nature of the God claim is such that it would be easy to account for any possibility. So, nothing would falsify it, including life on other planets. That's the whole problem with it.