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AspieUtah
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25 Aug 2014, 6:54 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
...we dont need it banning like any word,we need people to take a bit of personal responsibility for themselves and others, to give people basic respect and not to refer to them with ancient offensive disablist slurs that clearly are used in society to mean 'stupidity'.

Well said!


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25 Aug 2014, 7:32 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
From what I understand, no one is telling you you can't use the word and it should be banned. You are free to use it but free speech also allows people to object to it and express how they feel about the word. Also I have seen people with disabilities object to the word. I believe the movements are to try and get people to stop using the word. I didn't start seeing NTs cry about the word until I joined Babycenter and I learned even NTs are offended with the word than autistic people.


Who are they to tell people how to speak? There's nothing wrong with the word "retarded" in and of itself! It's just a word like any other. It's the CONTEXT that makes a word good or bad. If something is stupid, it can be said to be retarded. If someone acts in an ignorant manner, they're retarded, too, in the same way and for the same reason.

Discouraging the use of a word won't make a mentally retarded person completely equal to me in any way, shape, or form. I've got capabilities they don't have and they've got capabilities that I don't have and no feel-good cause will ever change that. Even if the bleeding-heart crybabies get their way, people will just use something else to mean the same things as "retarded". You discourage "retarded" now; next, you could make it taboo to say "autistic" or "cerebral palsy". Where does the madness end?

it isnt called 'mental retardation' anymore,it was changed in may last year officialy but unofficialy they had used intelectual disability for the past few years,they have changed it because [a] it isnt descriptive of our actual disability and [b] it is actualy offensive to us.

mental retardation is not a valid description of our disability, lots of disabilities have had their names changed to highlight what is now known about them; such as ADHD which was once known as minimal brain damage or aspergers which was once known as autistic pyschopathy,if 'autistic pyschopathy' was still being used and had the level of history and connotations as retardation/retard has,aspies woud be doing exactly what we are doing over retard.

those of us with ID are not slow;we hold a different level of mental capacity to non ID individuals which has an effect on our global functioning level.

MR is offensive to us,it dehumanises us and has so many negative connotations,people also use it to describe bad things or to associate with people who have done something unfunny and stupid;which by association is labeling us with their behavior.

we dont need it banning like any word,we need people to take a bit of personal responsibility for themselves and others, to give people basic respect and not to refer to them with ancient offensive disablist slurs that clearly are used in society to mean 'stupidity'.


Activists don't speak for all of us.

The problem with regulating speech: Who gets to make the rules?



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25 Aug 2014, 7:36 pm

Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The problem with regulating speech: Who gets to make the rules?


That's probably part of the reason nobody here is advocating for regulating speech



KingdomOfRats
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25 Aug 2014, 9:38 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The problem with regulating speech: Who gets to make the rules?


That's probably part of the reason nobody here is advocating for regulating speech

exactly, people who want the word banned are acting from feeling because of how the word makes them feel,they dont consider the consequences of imposing a ban.
many of us who hate the terms are able to see it from both feeling/experience and the wider effect in society,a ban simply woudnt be possible,look at racial slurs for example.

just for a moment ignore what politicaly correct people think...think about by what the terms 'mental retardation' and 'retard' will mean to those these words directly affect;AKA those of us on the intelectual disability spectrum.
think about the effect it has had on our lives as well as our every day living in which many of us suffer from abuse of being called a retard or retarded when out in public.
even without thinking of all the negative history and connotations attached to the terms 'retard' and 'retarded' ,they also give the impression we are slow and subhuman and trigger massive assumptions of us in the care industry.

when people use 'retard'/'retarded' in this way; eg;
'paris hiltons behavior is so retarded', they are imediately associating our condition with her behavior;even though they are not mentioning each and everyone of us specificaly, our disability is used as a shrine to annoying neurotypical stupidity or anything in particular;such as a tv show which is incredibly ignorant as it indirectly stigmatises us.

those of us who judge from both experience and common sense dont want to ban the word,we want to educate on the terms to enable people to make an informed choice on how they communicate with others; it makes the difference between being a respectful person who considers others OR a disrespectful jerk who uses disablist slurs just because they can.


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26 Aug 2014, 7:22 am

If we banned the R word then people would just come up with another slur.all retarded means anyway is slow or slowed down in Latin.

This does not imply foolish or incapable of wisdom,just slowed down.just like autistic does not mean foolish,it just means the volume is turned up to high and the senses get overloaded.

Italian is the Language of expression in classical music used by musicians of all ethnic origins.so if Mozart wrote "retardando" under a phrase indicating the slowing down of the tempo of the music.is Mozart now a bigot against people with downs syndrome


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26 Aug 2014, 7:27 am

Im not even sure I understand the motivation or the actual purpose of the movement. Do you want to stop people using the word completely or just remove it from professional contexts? I remember that sp**tic was "en vogue" for a while and that its never heard today so perhaps this may work.

The words moron idiot dolt and so on are unfortunately embedded in our collective consciousness too. Ive debated whether we should remove words like nig*er from the language. I to think its the wrong target however. Someone with racist attitudes is just using the word to communicate the poison inside. If not that word they'll use another.

Or do these words actually prompt bigotry and discrimination. Chicken or egg. I think that education is probably the answer.



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26 Aug 2014, 10:32 am

AspieUtah wrote:
PlainsAspie wrote:
If retard is an acceptable (by acceptable I'm not talking about what's legal, but rather what's polite/decent) term, why not these terms which were at one point medical terms: mongolian imbecility (down syndrome), moron (mildly intellectually disabled), imbecile (moderately ID), and idiot (profoundly ID).

?There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and wooooords.? ― George Carlin


x2 on that and Vermont Savant's words above.

It's not the word that is the issue.

It is intent and how the word is used.

That is the issue.

People who feel inferior will try to push people down others to lift themselves up, that is human nature, and that will not change until one become fearless
and strong too, at the basic level of human nature.

I ignore weak folks like this, who try to push the ones they perceive as weak down, by abusing other folks, when in reality they only fear the weak in themselves.

They are simply not worth my time or effort.

And I will give my life to defend first amendment rights; it is the right in the constitution that separates us from the potential reality of world world 2 flavored human nastiness.

The simple solution and well worth it considering the really big picture is to just ignore it if one can.

Or in the case of TV or other media sources, turn the channel, or ignore it if one can too.

And just remember once again, it is only the sign of weakness and fear, in people who propagate hateful intent in whatever words they use, to attempt to bring the other one down.

They never raise themselves up in my eyes, they only look foolish; therefore again, not worth my time or effort to change what sadly is the human nature of the weak and timid who think they are not good enough for what they see as the game of life, no matter how they are born or live with challenge and/or adversity too.


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26 Aug 2014, 12:47 pm

aghogday wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
PlainsAspie wrote:
If retard is an acceptable (by acceptable I'm not talking about what's legal, but rather what's polite/decent) term, why not these terms which were at one point medical terms: mongolian imbecility (down syndrome), moron (mildly intellectually disabled), imbecile (moderately ID), and idiot (profoundly ID).

?There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and wooooords.? ― George Carlin


x2 on that and Vermont Savant's words above.

It's not the word that is the issue.

It is intent and how the word is used.

That is the issue.

People who feel inferior will try to push people down others to lift themselves up, that is human nature, and that will not change until one become fearless
and strong too, at the basic level of human nature.

I ignore weak folks like this, who try to push the ones they perceive as weak down, by abusing other folks, when in reality they only fear the weak in themselves.

They are simply not worth my time or effort.

And I will give my life to defend first amendment rights; it is the right in the constitution that separates us from the potential reality of world world 2 flavored human nastiness.

The simple solution and well worth it considering the really big picture is to just ignore it if one can.

Or in the case of TV or other media sources, turn the channel, or ignore it if one can too.

And just remember once again, it is only the sign of weakness and fear, in people who propagate hateful intent in whatever words they use, to attempt to bring the other one down.

They never raise themselves up in my eyes, they only look foolish; therefore again, not worth my time or effort to change what sadly is the human nature of the weak and timid who think they are not good enough for what they see as the game of life, no matter how they are born or live with challenge and/or adversity too.
dito on most of your post.
I once Joan behar criticize a comedian who made a joke about DS.Joan said quote"comedians should always kick up and not down".

So in others words the disabled person is always down and the non disabled rich and are always up.talk about stereotypes,people easily see insults in out of context technicalities but always miss. Derogatory stereo types that are used in a subtle and abstract manner.I'm not saying the disabled don't suffer they do,but what about I think it is peaches geldolf dead from heroin at 18 or Lindsay Logan or Chris brown.do you really think suffer less then anyone who might a disability DX in there medical.

Slurs are found anywhere there are assumptions and stereotypes and person first thinking.this does mean its easy to disabled but just don't assume


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26 Aug 2014, 9:58 pm

Hi Vermont Savant. Yes, I agree, and I am personally happy about all the adversity in my life from disability and the other challenges of life.

All of it, per synergistic effect, ended up making me a much stronger and happier person now.

And now is all there is.

Words mean nothing, without feeling.

All they are in human connection without feeling, are empty shells of nothingness.

And sadly many people, so called really smart and successful ones, do most definitely live in this poverty of human being.

And yes, I most definitely was there in this poverty of human being, for 5 horrible long years.

While there are so called intellectually disabled individuals like the ones i worked with who make every moment of their life, simply amazing, by simply living
in a spirit of love, without all the complexities of life, per limitations and expectations of culture, that can kill the brightest and deepest of hearts stone cold dead, in life, as well.

All I want is to live a life without illusory fear and other negative emotions, and focus on love, in real life, and inspire folks to be truly free, like I enjoy fully being now.

That part I most definitely accomplish in real life, 100 percent, as generally speaking, people do not play the silly games in real life that people do play behind the
anonymous avatar of an Internet game, far, far, far from what real life means to me. :)


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27 Aug 2014, 3:27 am

I think I missed a not somewhere,this new tablet I have has a senseative
Keyboard.

What I meant was it is not easy to have disability but its still not good to assume.in response the Joan behars quote" don't kick down,kick up remark"


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KingdomOfRats
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27 Aug 2014, 5:21 am

vermontsavant wrote:
If we banned the R word then people would just come up with another slur.all retarded means anyway is slow or slowed down in Latin.

This does not imply foolish or incapable of wisdom,just slowed down.just like autistic does not mean foolish,it just means the volume is turned up to high and the senses get overloaded.

Italian is the Language of expression in classical music used by musicians of all ethnic origins.so if Mozart wrote "retardando" under a phrase indicating the slowing down of the tempo of the music.is Mozart now a bigot against people with downs syndrome

have just googled that word and it says its spelt with an i/ 'ritardando'.
even if it was spelt like 'retardando' though it woudnt be a disablist slur like 'retard',they mean very different things.

its like the word bast,ardisation...its got a swear word in it but as a whole it doesnt mean its a swear word.


Quote:
The simple solution and well worth it considering the really big picture is to just ignore it if one can.

wish it was possible.
for some of us our disabilities are highly visible and easy targets for pyschopathy.
am mildly intelectualy disabled and severely classic autistic.
am regulary shouted at with 'retard' in public and have been abused with it even on here and elsewhere on the internet to the point that got put off using neurotypical forums.
have even been targeted by a gang once for being a 'forest gump' and 'retard',had been with mum at the time and was attacked with their slurs,bricks,coke bottles and threats that they were going to come over and kick head in for being a 'retard' whilst egging each other on to come and do it.
was waiting with mum to be picked up by the special college minibus,the bus stop was packed and no one stood up for us.
have got PTSD from those pieces of crap and cant even go in the area without suffering from a freakout so never go there any more,its the community of where had grown up.

'retard' has wide reaching impact on those of us with intelectual disabilities as we have been targeted with intelectual slurs all our lives whether its from our teachers, families or community.
this is why it hurts us,connotation.


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27 Aug 2014, 8:45 am

So sorry to hear you are a victim of hate crimes where you live in association with your intellectual disability. The treatment for individuals with intellectual disabilities in my area is much improved from days gone past and it seems like the last hold out for this type of horrible human behavior is toward homosexuals where this is an activity that still runs rampant on the Internet behind avatars of anonymous hatred as well.

Yes, as a person with a very high IQ, around the 130 to 140 mark, but a person who has a very difficult time being concise in verbal and written communication often moving into tens of different directions in one paragraph due to the expanse of my cognitive awareness, I, particularly on this website have often been slurred with mental illness comments and even banned in part on a temporary basis for my style of out of the box rambling communication that is just the way my mind works.

It is very difficult to be different in this world, no matter who one is or what stereotypical advantage one may even have, like an extremely high IQ in my case.

The answer I see is the answer I personally effect in life, and that is to tolerate and accept people who are different, and if the difference bothers one just ignore them.

Sad but some people truly are too weak and timid to be strong enough to treat people who are different with tolerance and respect.

And for me, with my high IQ, the only answer for me to ever be accepted truly was a skill I have now developed in dance above and beyond most people's skill in dance.

That way, people will like me for my non-verbal behavior, and no longer think I'm crazy as my mind seems to them in writing and verbal ways, like a Jet Engine that can go in many different directions all at one time.

And yes there are some folks like the ones that throw bricks at you, that must be put behind bars, as their nature among animals is lower than any animal I know as they feed off of hatred and twisted joy of seeing other folks hurt, as a way of making their numb souls feel anything that is their sad lot in life too.

No doubt life is not fair.

I feel blessed to make the best of it I can, and actually enjoy it very much now.

But no, it was extremely challenging and took me over 5 decades, to truly find a place of peace in living this life, that I now control with what is truly human free will, and no one can take that away from me now, but me.

Perhaps it is my intelligence that provides me that ability of strength but I hope that strength is not one dependent on standard IQ measures, as I personally believe it is based on instinct and intuition and not on standard measures of IQ that for me have actually been more of a disability in real life than a blessing.

As ironic as that may seem.

But I have reams of evidence for it.

But unfortunately not everyone has the ability to even understand it.

Being really really smart, per measures of standard IQ, can be a really really
lonely place to be.

And most every human being, has a basic need to be accepted by the rest of the tribe.

I am no exception, but again, dance is my accommodation, in non-verbal communication ability, and by God it works, in real life, but no, not on the
Internet, nothing really works for me here, and that's okay, as real life is my cup of tea, for sure, now.


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27 Aug 2014, 8:52 am

vermontsavant wrote:
I think I missed a not somewhere,this new tablet I have has a senseative
Keyboard.

What I meant was it is not easy to have disability but its still not good to assume.in response the Joan behars quote" don't kick down,kick up remark"


Hi Vermont Savant, yes, I understood your comment above and agree with it the way it was written too, before.

As usual, my fingers that type 130 words a minute and my eyes that read 10 to 15 times faster than the average human being, go way too fast, and way too many
directions for most people to understand me, and I always appreciate the fact that you tolerate me, accept me, and make me feel like a human being.

And in my opinion friend, that is what makes you a strong human being. :)

And why I have as much or more respect for you as anyone on this Internet site.

Truly.


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27 Aug 2014, 11:57 am

AspieUtah wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
From what I understand, no one is telling you you can't use the word and it should be banned. You are free to use it but free speech also allows people to object to it and express how they feel about the word. Also I have seen people with disabilities object to the word. I believe the movements are to try and get people to stop using the word. I didn't start seeing NTs cry about the word until I joined Babycenter and I learned even NTs are offended with the word than autistic people.

Symbolic speech limits already have the force of law http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... igh-school when the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit agreed in February with a California high school?s decision to forbid students from wearing American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo. Who can say that the symbolic-speech precedent would extend to verbal or written speech. Are public-school students allowed to use the "N-word" in their class discussion or pep-rally speeches?



I am not sure how the N word got into this discussion. I re read my post and didn't see where I mentioned they should use the word.


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27 Aug 2014, 4:28 pm

aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
I think I missed a not somewhere,this new tablet I have has a senseative
Keyboard.

What I meant was it is not easy to have disability but its still not good to assume.in response the Joan behars quote" don't kick down,kick up remark"


Hi Vermont Savant, yes, I understood your comment above and agree with it the way it was written too, before.

As usual, my fingers that type 130 words a minute and my eyes that read 10 to 15 times faster than the average human being, go way too fast, and way too many
directions for most people to understand me, and I always appreciate the fact that you tolerate me, accept me, and make me feel like a human being.

And in my opinion friend, that is what makes you a strong human being. :)

And why I have as much or more respect for you as anyone on this Internet site.

Truly.
thanks,your half way decent yourself


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04 Sep 2014, 10:42 pm

I disagree. Retarded was never a good word to begin with -I didn't like people calling me that when I was 10 and I don't want people using it to define me now. I think it's a good thing people (not just NTs) are trying to take it out of daily use.

Also, freedom of speech talks about legal bodies trying to silence you, not regular citizens -and arguing that you're freedom of speech trumps the safety of others or their right to feel safe in a space is rather ignorant. It's not about you being free to use words, but your ability to be respectful and mindful of others and how they might feel about your choice of words.

Now, if NTs told me I couldn't call myself Aspie or say about myself 'I am Autistic' and insisted I refer to myself as person first I'd be pissed.

I don't think people asking you not to use the word 'retarded' is limiting your self expression -I mean, are you walking around calling yourself retarded?