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Ganondox
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31 Aug 2014, 2:22 am

Basically, I wonder if that within every society, there is several distinct genetic populations divided by neurological traits, which would be the aforementioned neurotypes and the society can in fact only function by having a range of distinct neurotypes. If the proportions of neurotypes become out of balance, then those whose neurotypes are in short supply will get reproductive advantages, keeping society stable. This is based on a few ideas, first that personality and intelligence are extremely genetically heritable, second that people are subject to assortative mating and usually marry someone with similar mental traits, that mental traits better determines a person's career and thus role in society than physical ones, and that even within different cultures, a range of personalities are found world wide. In relation to autism, the theory would be that at least aspergers blends into the normal range of neurotypes (this is based on the fact that a stronger genetic basis has been found for aspergers than autism in general), but society change has resulted in more people falling in the clinical range for one reason or another.


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Jensen
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31 Aug 2014, 2:31 am

The majority will allways be the normgivers, and of course society will work according to their functioning, - thus leaving the minority handicapped, - and in our case, "mental cases", because we have functional areals, that obviously doesn´t correspond with the needs of an NT society.


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Ganondox
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04 Sep 2014, 11:24 pm

Jensen wrote:
The majority will allways be the normgivers, and of course society will work according to their functioning, - thus leaving the minority handicapped, - and in our case, "mental cases", because we have functional areals, that obviously doesn´t correspond with the needs of an NT society.


By neurotype I'm not referring to just autistic/neurotypical, but the whole range of personalities and whatnot.


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Ganondox
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04 Sep 2014, 11:24 pm

Jensen wrote:
The majority will allways be the normgivers, and of course society will work according to their functioning, - thus leaving the minority handicapped, - and in our case, "mental cases", because we have functional areals, that obviously doesn´t correspond with the needs of an NT society.


By neurotype I'm not referring to just autistic/neurotypical, but the whole range of personalities and whatnot.


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Agrippa
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05 Sep 2014, 12:34 am

Neurotype - like those who are inherently good at one thing or another? The mechanically inclined vs the artist? The introvert vs the extrovert?
I believe there are innate talents and that, for some, learning skills based on those talents is easier then for others. I have viewed this as personality types, but perhaps there is a hard-wired genetic factor.. or even a soft-wired environmental/epigenetic factor.

Ganondox wrote:
If the proportions of neurotypes become out of balance, then those whose neurotypes are in short supply will get reproductive advantages, keeping society stable.

Perhaps, but I suspect that the society which has a dearth of skilled people in a field/skill will become less competitive against other groups and perhaps even weaker in the environment in general. To me that sounds like a recipe for hardship, and when a society is having a hard time, those on the fringe tend to be targeted by their society.



olympiadis
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05 Sep 2014, 9:38 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Basically, I wonder if that within every society, there is several distinct genetic populations divided by neurological traits, which would be the aforementioned neurotypes and the society can in fact only function by having a range of distinct neurotypes. If the proportions of neurotypes become out of balance, then those whose neurotypes are in short supply will get reproductive advantages, keeping society stable.



I generally agree that this is the case. Most hives have castes to perform various specialized functions within the system.
What you're saying is akin to a human body not having enough white blood cells, which would then trigger a feedback mechanism to encourage the production of more white blood cells.

One key thing to keep in mind is the environment that the system is existing in. Genetics must reach equilibrium within a physical environment. Memetics must reach equilibrium within the imaginary environment of ideas. Both of these mechanisms concern human societies.
Predictions are very difficult, especially with memetics. It is often difficult for us to observe the environment as a landscape of ideas, as if we were a competing idea.
The neurotypes you speak of would be a combination of genetic differences which play host to different mind-sets, which of course host ideas very differently.


Also, in the realm of imagination "equilibrium" means an entirely different situation than we are used to observing in the real world. Imagination does not obey the laws of physics, so you can't assume that memetics is seeking a condition that would seem "stable" to us.
Generally, I believe that most of the aggressive ideas that have survived the times actually seek perpetual conflict and resolution cycles where nothing is ever really solved. If things got solved, then the ideas would have worked themselves out of a job and would have been selected out a long time ago.



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05 Sep 2014, 9:54 pm

I wouldn't say "Survival of the Conformists" because some neurotype is bound to smash the barrier and start over.


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Ganondox
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09 Sep 2014, 1:01 am

Agrippa wrote:
Neurotype - like those who are inherently good at one thing or another? The mechanically inclined vs the artist? The introvert vs the extrovert?
I believe there are innate talents and that, for some, learning skills based on those talents is easier then for others. I have viewed this as personality types, but perhaps there is a hard-wired genetic factor.. or even a soft-wired environmental/epigenetic factor.

Ganondox wrote:
If the proportions of neurotypes become out of balance, then those whose neurotypes are in short supply will get reproductive advantages, keeping society stable.

Perhaps, but I suspect that the society which has a dearth of skilled people in a field/skill will become less competitive against other groups and perhaps even weaker in the environment in general. To me that sounds like a recipe for hardship, and when a society is having a hard time, those on the fringe tend to be targeted by their society.


In order for any system to be stable, there needs to be negative feedback to change, so while some neurotype won't display this recovering behavior, whatever neurotypes keep a given society stable must, at least for minor fluctuations which would occur naturally.


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cyberdad
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09 Sep 2014, 1:37 am

Ganondox wrote:
Basically, I wonder if that within every society, there is several distinct genetic populations divided by neurological traits, which would be the aforementioned neurotypes and the society can in fact only function by having a range of distinct neurotypes. .


The term nuerotype is one of convenience created by autistic people to define "average" non-autistic people who represent the profile of the mainstream. Like the mythical "race" which many of us find convenient but is non-scientific. The problem here is that i) it ignores the fact that there are significant proportion of the no-autistic population with a diagnosed mental illness and ii) it totally ignores nuerodiversity that exists in mainstream society where people carry undiagnosed mental illness or have different brain wiring despite their ability to function in society.

Ganondox wrote:
In relation to autism, the theory would be that at least aspergers blends into the normal range of neurotypes (this is based on the fact that a stronger genetic basis has been found for aspergers than autism in general), but society change has resulted in more people falling in the clinical range for one reason or another.

I thought you are (for convenience) either a nuerotype or you are not. How does one get the label Aspergers but is genetically nuerotypical??Seems like many of us create our own pet ideas and start believing them after a while.



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09 Sep 2014, 1:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Basically, I wonder if that within every society, there is several distinct genetic populations divided by neurological traits, which would be the aforementioned neurotypes and the society can in fact only function by having a range of distinct neurotypes. .


The term nuerotype is one of convenience created by autistic people to define "average" non-autistic people who represent the profile of the mainstream. Like the mythical "race" which many of us find convenient but is non-scientific. The problem here is that i) it ignores the fact that there are significant proportion of the no-autistic population with a diagnosed mental illness and ii) it totally ignores nuerodiversity that exists in mainstream society where people carry undiagnosed mental illness or have different brain wiring despite their ability to function in society.

Ganondox wrote:
In relation to autism, the theory would be that at least aspergers blends into the normal range of neurotypes (this is based on the fact that a stronger genetic basis has been found for aspergers than autism in general), but society change has resulted in more people falling in the clinical range for one reason or another.

I thought you are (for convenience) either a nuerotype or you are not. How does one get the label Aspergers but is genetically nuerotypical??Seems like many of us create our own pet ideas and start believing them after a while.


Neurotype, not neurotypical. There is a big difference.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2014, 9:54 am

I believe there are certain characteristics of discrete ethnic groups which might rise to the level of a "neurotype."

As an example: Scandinavians tend to be rather reserved in comparison to other ethnic groups.
Italians tend to be more demonstrative with their emotions than other ethnic groups.

Obviously, what I stated are generalizations. But I believe the above represents a "neurotype" in a cultural/anthropological sense.



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17 Sep 2014, 8:33 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe there are certain characteristics of discrete ethnic groups which might rise to the level of a "neurotype."

As an example: Scandinavians tend to be rather reserved in comparison to other ethnic groups.
Italians tend to be more demonstrative with their emotions than other ethnic groups.

Obviously, what I stated are generalizations. But I believe the above represents a "neurotype" in a cultural/anthropological sense.


The thing is this hypothesis needs distinctive neurotypes within an ethnicity (well, a society), not across them. Anyway, when ethnic groups behave differently it's often the result of culture, not genetics.


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