Do you think Conventional is the New Unconventional?

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So "alternative lifestyles" and "pervert marriages". lol I'm a gay man, so I'm going to have to guess these terms are directed at people like me? 'Cause you know, it's not like gay people believe in love, marriage, family, home, and value the simple things in life. Only conventional, christian people (you know, people with souls) could possibly have any interest in any of those things.

You're starting to sound more and more like a bigot trying to walk around in "PC" clothing, except you're not doing a very good job of it. However interesting this topic could have been, I think you've kind of ruined it.

And it's hardly the case that Christians can't be gay. I'm friends with two people in the LGBT community whose faith is very important to both of them. On top of that, my wife is bisexual, and she's a proper little church lady.

You mean they go to church and they DON'T catch fire when they cross the threshold?!?!?!?!?!?!? Imagine that! I'm both shocked and appalled! The Catholic Church has been lying to me all of these years.

Agreed, but it is a good topic, even if the content is stereotypical at times, so let's keep the momentum on the good bits and not let the OP derail his own good topic.

Conventional, in the bastardized use of the word, means the things considered wholesome and civic minded.

But what it really means is standards and practices of a group or community. So in a sense, the OP is right, that even subcultures are not unconventional - they just follow a different convention. But it's not limited to subcultures. I think there's a convention confusion in the way many people live these days, outwardly agreeing with one convention yet privately following another. Sometimes it's people living old conventions, wanting to follow new. Sometimes it's people living new conventions wanting to follow old.

Some examples come to mind immediately.
- The liberated woman who privately want the old ways.
- The gay man living in the flamboyant community, whilst privately having more conservative tastes.
- The monogamous person who privately doesn't believe in it.
- The "win friends and influence people" crowd who charm people in public but privately prefer a less extroverted life.
- The person who is always reliable and dependable and civic minded, but would rather be off discovering the world.

I tend to think that conventions have always been in flux, but especially so in the last 50 or 60 years, thanks to equality and liberty ideas, but also to technology and the accelerated growth and freedom in sharing ideas. I must admit, sometimes the pace of convention change is frightening, but at other times it's still too slow.

Remember try not to discuss politics, religion, sex and well that leaves the weather.

Oh so conventional.

Too true to both of those. I think the internet plays a huge role in how fast things can change nowadays, it's easy to begin feeling a tad obsolete when you have trouble keeping up.

Actually, I'd say weather is pretty much a hot-button topic these days as well, or climate anyway. lol

Yep, I guess so.
As a matter of fact, my best man at my wedding is gay, and is a devout catholic.

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Last edited by Narrator on 05 Sep 2014, 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

I was (sort of) raised catholic. I was baptised and went to catholic elementary/secondary schools (never got 'confirmed' in the catholic church though). The only thing I really learned during the process was that I'm definitely NOT a catholic. lol By the end of high school I'd stopped participating in mass and such. Now I'd just prefer a world with no religion., but not necessarily a world devoid of any form of spirituality, which is probably both conventional and unconventional at the same time by today's standards. lol

You posted a wonderful excerpt from that 1893 magazine which showed the timelessness of this phenomenon. Alas that was not then direction the thread took.

So on to this:

From what I've read and experienced, this maintains group identity. For insular groups it protects against infiltrators who will unwittingly break then conventions and out themselves as not authentic members of the group. Going undercover in these groups- as cops sometimes have to do- must be stressful since everything hinges on getting the conventions exactly right.



I'll add in one of my own: the hippie who secretly eats meat. That was me. I joined the hippie group for its progressive politics and communitarian lifestyle (I did not know at the time I am too individualist to be communitarian). I wasn't a vegetarian but that was a group convention so I went along. I lasted as long as I did only because vegetarians eat dairy and eggs. Veganism wasn't a thing yet. If the convention was veganism I wouldn't have lasted a week. Before leaving the group I ate meat in secret as befits your list.

Sometimes this break with group convention leads to the person simply leaving the group. Other times it leads to a whole new but related group. The Log Cabin Republicans would be that for conservative gay men. I don't know how many of them shuddered through Pride Parades before breaking away, but some probably did.



Oh yes. The creation of the internet means groups no longer need geographic proximity which accelerates their growth and breakaways to sub groups. Ideas can spread and change at top speed. It also means norms can be created and broken far faster than ever before. Technology makes it possible to create new norms faster than society or law can respond. The forming of 'sexting', made possible and prevalent by new technology, has outpaced laws. Nobody quite knows what to do with 14 year olds who send each other their own naked photos? Some have tried to charge them with creating child pornography which brings up the absurd paradox of being charged for exploiting themselves. Law doesn't know what to do with this. Technology made it a norm too fast for law to catch up.