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if there was a mouse in your house, you would
get a non-kill trap and let it go in the woods 62%  62%  [ 69 ]
get a trap that kills 38%  38%  [ 42 ]
Total votes : 111

trollcatman
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20 Apr 2015, 8:43 am

AngelRho wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Story time: Recently I became aware of a mouse running around, and I've dealt with enough mice to know their habits within our house. So I put the only trap I had available (the bad ones) in the usual spots. Nothing. The mouse eventually falls into our bathtub. OK, no big deal. I'll drop a trap in. The mouse crawled over the trigger at least three times. The mouse even FELL on the trigger. NOTHING. AAAAAGH!! ! ! ! OK… I covered the mouse with a box with the trap inside. I think it just took a nap or something, but suicide apparently was not an option--or the trap is just that bad. So I ended up catching the mouse with an empty coffee can and dumping the poor thing into the toilet. I really hated going there. About an hour later I took the family out to a movie, during which the mouse FINALLY drowned.


If you really need to kill it, could you find no other way than let the mouse drown for an hour? This is extreme cruelty, if you kill an animal make sure it is dead quickly. Even crushing it with your foot is more humane, at least it'll die instantly.
Even better, set it free near some bushes and it'll just run away (and probably get eaten by a magpie or raven). Mice don't have much lifespan anyway and the amount of mice is not determined by how many you kill, but whether food or water is available in your home. Water is especially important, don't give them access or they will keep coming.

We DON'T make food/water available. That's not why they want in our house. It's usually during the winter. The Southern US has cold, WET winters--rain, not snow. It's the cold and water flooding their natural habitat that pushes them indoors.

Drowning is cruel, I admit. I don't like it either. Crushing the thing makes sense, except there's too much risk of the thing getting away. I considered closing it up in a half-pint jar and suffocating it, but I can't stand physically handling the thing any longer than necessary. At least drowning happens quickly once its energy is expended.

And you can't release them into the wild. They're good at finding their way back. It could get eaten, sure, but mice also instinctively hide themselves well enough they could make it back to the house without getting caught. If you catch them, you have to kill them if you want them gone. Kill traps first, poison second, and any means necessary beyond that.


I didn't mean to imply that you deliberately gave them water, but there are often sources of water for them that we forget about. Many modern fridges have an outlet for water on the back side for example, mice can survive on that. Took us a while to find it.
Drowning does not happen quickly if you let it swim for an hour, that's an hour long death struggle. Better kill it quickly, hit it with a piece of wood or something, that's how my dad kills them (and there are lots of mice where he lives, he has a few a week sometimes despite there being lots of cats and birds around).
Poison has the risk that the mouse dies someplace you don't know about so the thing lies there rotting until you smell it and try to find it. Poison also has the risk of poisoning animals higher up the food chain, such as cats or birds.



jimmyboy76453
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20 Apr 2015, 9:13 am

Kill. Live mice come back, and they attract snakes and raccoons and opossums. I live in the country, where mice are inevitable in the basement or garage or one outbuilding or another. About 5 each year die by my hand. Killing them keeps the bigger pests away.


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jimmyboy76453
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20 Apr 2015, 9:16 am

AngelRho wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Story time: Recently I became aware of a mouse running around, and I've dealt with enough mice to know their habits within our house. So I put the only trap I had available (the bad ones) in the usual spots. Nothing. The mouse eventually falls into our bathtub. OK, no big deal. I'll drop a trap in. The mouse crawled over the trigger at least three times. The mouse even FELL on the trigger. NOTHING. AAAAAGH!! ! ! ! OK… I covered the mouse with a box with the trap inside. I think it just took a nap or something, but suicide apparently was not an option--or the trap is just that bad. So I ended up catching the mouse with an empty coffee can and dumping the poor thing into the toilet. I really hated going there. About an hour later I took the family out to a movie, during which the mouse FINALLY drowned.


If you really need to kill it, could you find no other way than let the mouse drown for an hour? This is extreme cruelty, if you kill an animal make sure it is dead quickly. Even crushing it with your foot is more humane, at least it'll die instantly.
Even better, set it free near some bushes and it'll just run away (and probably get eaten by a magpie or raven). Mice don't have much lifespan anyway and the amount of mice is not determined by how many you kill, but whether food or water is available in your home. Water is especially important, don't give them access or they will keep coming.

We DON'T make food/water available. That's not why they want in our house. It's usually during the winter. The Southern US has cold, WET winters--rain, not snow. It's the cold and water flooding their natural habitat that pushes them indoors.

Drowning is cruel, I admit. I don't like it either. Crushing the thing makes sense, except there's too much risk of the thing getting away. I considered closing it up in a half-pint jar and suffocating it, but I can't stand physically handling the thing any longer than necessary. At least drowning happens quickly once its energy is expended.

And you can't release them into the wild. They're good at finding their way back. It could get eaten, sure, but mice also instinctively hide themselves well enough they could make it back to the house without getting caught. If you catch them, you have to kill them if you want them gone. Kill traps first, poison second, and any means necessary beyond that.


If a classic snap trap doesn't work, D-Con. Not really that pleasant a death, but much more humane than drowning.


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DarkObserver
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20 Apr 2015, 11:51 am

I take a similar view to the one an earlier poster did. I wouldn't say I'm an animal enthusiast but I enjoy the presence and am not made uncomfortable by the vast majority of non-human animals, have an appreciation for biology, etc. Common fears and turn-offs as far as they apply to what seem to be the popular view (in many cultures) of the animal kingdom have never much bothered me. I am not bothered by reptiles at all (actually count any variety of snake and alligators among my favorite critters), I actually appreciate arachnids for pest control and leave their webs be behind the window shades (rather have 20 spiders around than one miserable mosquito!), and at the worst I can take or leave bats. Two animals I absolutely loathe however, perhaps beat only by possums, are common mice and rats. It's not fear but an intrinsic disgust. It's probably about the only area my view on animals (and most other subjects!) falls within the purview of the mainstream.

Even though most mice are not the vectors of disease, they just remind me of little balls of dirt with off-putting gelatinous tails and they sicken me to my very core. I'm not at all a Howard Hughes-style clean freak. I'm most definitely messier than the average person actually. As such, I have traveled to some fairly grungy locales whilst traveling and have encountered these pests, including in New Orleans, Savannah, and other port cities where they are legion.

There probably hasn't been a mouse in the house since the mid 80's. Very few rodents and pests intrude on our turf, but this scenario did come up in real life two or so years ago. Usually it's just rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, and a lot of deer around. There are some woods behind the house though so occasionally you will see a gopher, hedgehog, fox, field mouse, etc. So on one such morning what was a very slow-moving mouse (might have been sick) just randomly appeared on our driveway. Looked like refuse but then I noticed it moved. Father went out with a shovel and said he was going to throw it into the street or onto the lawn of one of the neighboring houses. I stopped him, took the shovel, and flattened the mouse with it, before disposing of it in the outdoor garbage bag.

If there's too many people on Earth, there's certainly too many mice. I'm not going to go actively hunting them but if they encroach onto my space I don't feel guilty at all about doing what needs to be done. I don't think their species, humanity, or the planet and ecosystem is going to be adversely affected by that. Unfortunately, there will always be more mice and rats...



eric76 wrote:
skibum wrote:
As far as feral cats, we have a colony here and they are the animal which is the highest carrier of rabies in our state and we are the state which has the highest rabies in the US. And my street is the most concentrated rabies area because the lady down the street feeds the feral cats and they have kittens all the time. But fortunately as long as you don't approach them they don't come after you so we have never had a person bitten so we just leave them alone and the SPCA does their best to deal with that lady.


Doesn't sound like rabies at all. No cat has ever been known to survive rabies. If a cat becomes infected, it will die before too long. While they are still alive, cats are particularly prone to becoming vicious and attacking anything that irritates them in any way. Many rabid cats would attack you just for being in the vicinity whether or not you approached them.

Furthermore, rabies is such a serious health concern that if rabies among her cats were such a problem, the state would likely take serious action against the lady down the street to stop her from feeding feral cats including fines and imprisonment. They would also likely trap and kill every feral cat that they could find.

I think that in many states, the main reservoir for rabies is bats.


Bats often get a bad rap, but in many suburban areas across the United States, the raccoon and fox populations can also pose a significant threat of susceptibility.



lostonearth35
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20 Apr 2015, 2:39 pm

The other week I was at a pet store and actually touched a rat and let it crawl on myself. It was actually pretty cute, and its fur was surprisingly soft. But I don't have a problem with domesticated rats and mice because they live in a clean environment and don't carry all kinds of disease.

When I was really young our house had a really bad rat problem and I don't think anyone even thought of calling an exterminator back then, and I remember my mother sometimes waking up my brother and me during the night and taking us down to sleep at our grandparent's. I think she was afraid the rats were going to come into our bedroom and gnaw off our toes or something, I even once read that's happened to babies whose parents are really irresponsible and neglectful. 8O

Oh yeah, and rats and mice pee everywhere because they have no bladder control. The pet rat didn't pee on me, though. :)

But IDK, it's beginning to be like you can't kill anything that isn't a plant, even insect vermin that destroy property, bite, sting, suck your blood, transmit nasty diseases or can even kill you. What if your dog or cat gets fleas, will it be wrong to kill the fleas that are making your pet miserable? I'll bet next it'll be wrong to kill disease-causing bacteria. I think I read some people think that even now. SHHHHEESH!! :roll:

Any way, I need to do do the dishes. I'm using antibacterial soap. maybe I can apologize to the bacteria in the afterlife...



lyzpg
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20 Apr 2015, 2:52 pm

Kill them dead.



AngelRho
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20 Apr 2015, 3:31 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
The other week I was at a pet store and actually touched a rat and let it crawl on myself. It was actually pretty cute, and its fur was surprisingly soft. But I don't have a problem with domesticated rats and mice because they live in a clean environment and don't carry all kinds of disease.

When I was really young our house had a really bad rat problem and I don't think anyone even thought of calling an exterminator back then, and I remember my mother sometimes waking up my brother and me during the night and taking us down to sleep at our grandparent's. I think she was afraid the rats were going to come into our bedroom and gnaw off our toes or something, I even once read that's happened to babies whose parents are really irresponsible and neglectful. 8O

Oh yeah, and rats and mice pee everywhere because they have no bladder control. The pet rat didn't pee on me, though. :)

But IDK, it's beginning to be like you can't kill anything that isn't a plant, even insect vermin that destroy property, bite, sting, suck your blood, transmit nasty diseases or can even kill you. What if your dog or cat gets fleas, will it be wrong to kill the fleas that are making your pet miserable? I'll bet next it'll be wrong to kill disease-causing bacteria. I think I read some people think that even now. SHHHHEESH!! :roll:

Any way, I need to do do the dishes. I'm using antibacterial soap. maybe I can apologize to the bacteria in the afterlife...

Mice are cute, but they're so freakin' destructive. The first time we moved into our little trailer out in the country, it was like we were swimming in mouse pee by mid-December. And then there's all the little mouse-turds. We kept spare towels under the bathroom sink, and you could hear that distinctive rattle sound as dried mouse poo poured out onto the floor. We plugged all the little holes around pipes and so on to keep them out…and then they started chewing thrw through walls such that there are random holes around the water heater and the toilet. Our house is going to collapse on itself from all the holes the mice have chewed in the walls.

We might have ONE s#!+-for-brains mouse that gets stuck in the house during the warmer months, but we're overrun with them in the winter. I hate killing living things to the point I'll get over my fear of spiders just enough to pick them up (by hand) and pitch them out of the house. There is no symbiosis to be had with mice.



DailyPoutine1
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20 Apr 2015, 3:50 pm

The non-killing ones, why would you kill a being with a consciousness? :(



AngelRho
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20 Apr 2015, 5:18 pm

DailyPoutine1 wrote:
The non-killing ones, why would you kill a being with a consciousness? :(

Self-defense.



DarkObserver
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20 Apr 2015, 5:24 pm

I mean, if you're going to go for that line of questioning, why not ask about ants? How many have all of us inevitably stepped on while taking a mere walk downtown or to the park? Is it inherently less valuable?



DailyPoutine1
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20 Apr 2015, 6:27 pm

AngelRho wrote:
DailyPoutine1 wrote:
The non-killing ones, why would you kill a being with a consciousness? :(

Self-defense.

The only conscious beings that are worth killing for self defence are humans.
DarkObserver wrote:
mean, if you're going to go for that line of questioning, why not ask about ants? How many have all of us inevitably stepped on while taking a mere walk downtown or to the park? Is it inherently less valuable?
Ants can't possibly have a mind of there own.



MrBear
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22 Apr 2015, 10:59 pm

I find no joy in killing something and actively feel sorry for mice that wind up in houses. In many cases, human development has upset the mice by destroying their homes and environment. Build your house on somebody's home and they may come into it.



AngelRho
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23 Apr 2015, 5:15 am

DailyPoutine1 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
DailyPoutine1 wrote:
The non-killing ones, why would you kill a being with a consciousness? :(

Self-defense.

The only conscious beings that are worth killing for self defence are humans.
DarkObserver wrote:
mean, if you're going to go for that line of questioning, why not ask about ants? How many have all of us inevitably stepped on while taking a mere walk downtown or to the park? Is it inherently less valuable?
Ants can't possibly have a mind of there own.

Wow…

Ever considered being a dictator in a third-world country? You might actually be good at it. :lol:



Berzerker777
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12 Dec 2015, 3:40 pm

Dropping a mouse in the woods is just as much a death sentence as killing them then and there. Something's gonna eat that poor thing. At least a kill trap's quick. It's a mercy, really.


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Varelse
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12 Dec 2015, 4:10 pm

I voted for the non-kill trap even though I know how totally irrational it is to think that relocating a house mouse to 'the woods' would be more humane than killing it outright. It's hard for me to kill things even when I know that the alternative is to make them suffer a much more lingering death, in an environment they aren't adapted to and haven't explored.

I know rats are both social and territorial, so releasing a rat into the wild basically means that as soon as it runs into a group of 'native' rats, it will be attacked and killed by them.



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12 Dec 2015, 9:54 pm

They can choose not to enter my house or they can die. If they don't die by some trap they will die by some cat, that is just the way it is.