Aspiton: A haven for Super High Functioning Aspies

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LupaLuna
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13 Sep 2014, 10:41 am

What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.



FireyInspiration
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13 Sep 2014, 10:50 am

After what we've been through having been discriminated a lot by (usually unknowing) NTs, having us discriminate against them seems like a pretty bad double-standard.



olympiadis
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13 Sep 2014, 2:14 pm

The nature of discrimination is that it is always present within any type of intelligent system, and so arguing over levels of discrimination (usually in the realm of the imagination) are irrelevant to me. Without discrimination there is no intelligence. It's how we all operate.

This isn't a general human rights issue. This is about operating as a team or organism to do a job.
You pick your best athletes to play on a sports team, not the other way about. The non-athletic is the water-boy. That is discrimination. If it is all volunteer, then there is no issue.

I see there are many possible downsides to an aspie organization, and that is to be expected really. Anything new will have bugs to work out, and some bugs can't be worked out, and that is true of every system out there. However, the potential of the "Aspiton" concept could be so great that even a single significant success could be world changing. Knowing the nature of aspies and how they are not confined within presently known "models" of thinking, I feel that the likelyhood of such significant successes would be very high, and worthy of the effort.

At present most aspies have to expend a huge amount of their effort and energy into just coping with an environment that is hostile to them, and having to survive inside a system so designed to limit and drain individuals.

I believe that aspies as a group are a great resource that has be squandered.



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14 Sep 2014, 12:17 pm

sharkattack wrote:
People on the Autism spectrum are annoying.


If we all lived in a city together the murder rate would be off the scale. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think it would go higher if we all had meltdowns!


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Charloz
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14 Sep 2014, 12:20 pm

LupaLuna wrote:
What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.


We have pretty much the same rights as anyone else, though. There's only a few situations in which we'd be discriminated against. Like if you are afraid you wouldn't be hired for a certain function if you disclose your condition, keep your mouth shut and don't mention it. High functioning autistic people should have the common sense to keep their diagnoses to themselves in situations honesty might screw them over. Do that and you'll never be discriminated against as AS people.

Give me three important things a movement could achieve that we don't already have?



vickygleitz
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14 Sep 2014, 1:14 pm

LupaLuna wrote:
What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.


YES! YES! YES!



vickygleitz
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14 Sep 2014, 2:42 pm

Charloz wrote:
LupaLuna wrote:
What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.


We have pretty much the same rights as anyone else, though. There's only a few situations in which we'd be discriminated against. Like if you are afraid you wouldn't be hired for a certain function if you disclose your condition, keep your mouth shut and don't mention it. High functioning autistic people should have the common sense to keep their diagnoses to themselves in situations honesty might screw them over. Do that and you'll never be discriminated against as AS people.

Give me three important things a movement could achieve that we don't already have?


Education about Autism. Acceptance of Autistics by society in general. Acceptance of BEING Autistic by many Autistics themselves.

The rate of attempted suicide by Autistics is 28 times higher than in the general population. There are REASONS for that. Estimates are that between 30 and 35% of the homeless are HFA. The high rate of unemployment is pathetic [estimates between 80 and 90%]

Yeah,I think we need a movement. That's difficult when most HFAs' are covering their authentic selves. That is difficult when the status quo is being accepted. That is difficult when [ from my perspective as an old Autistic] our young people are being "accomodated" by teaching them a combination of 'learned helplesness" and how to NOT be themselves, rather than teaching them the many things they are capable of, their awesomeness, and their right and responsibility to stand up and declare their rights to be accepted for their incredibly unique wiring.



vickygleitz
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14 Sep 2014, 2:47 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
People on the Autism spectrum are annoying.


If we all lived in a city together the murder rate would be off the scale. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think it would go higher if we all had meltdowns!


You all must spend more time with other Autistics than I have [including the ones I have raised] because that has not been my experience at all. And Otaku, I think you would be a "hoot" to spend time with or have as a neighbor.



Joe90
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14 Sep 2014, 3:13 pm

I don't think I would fit into a place of just Aspies. When Aspies think about this sort of thing, only mostly the stereotypes get thought of. I'm not a stereotypical Aspie. My obsessions consist of people, not logical things like inventing a handy piece of equipment what's as complicated as rocket science. If I was to live in a town full of Wayne Szalinzki's (have you ever seen Honey I Shrunk The Kids and particularly Honey We Shrunk Ourselves?), I think I would be bored to tears and would rather hang out with a bunch of NTs at a shopping mall!

So anyway, a town of just people on the spectrum will probably be even more complexly diverse as the real world, if that isn't diverse enough. Aspies like myself who are intellectually average in some things (like language and other basic skills) but are underaverage in other things (like math, science and technology) will probably feel like a fish out of water. Plus you get some Aspies that talk non-stop and so quiet nervous Aspies like myself will still feel like we're quite ignored (not intentionally ignored) because of being quiet.

Not everybody on the spectrum are science/math/technical geniuses. I'm not even close. I feel more like an NT than I do an Autistic, and the only thing that holds me back the most is anxiety. Otherwise, I like the NT world. My family are NTs. My colleagues/friends are NTs (except for two or three). My partner is NT. I wouldn't give any of them up to live in a town of Autistics.


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14 Sep 2014, 4:16 pm

Quote:
The rate of attempted suicide by Autistics is 28 times higher than in the general population. There are REASONS for that. Estimates are that between 30 and 35% of the homeless are HFA. The high rate of unemployment is pathetic [estimates between 80 and 90%].....our young people are being "accomodated" by teaching them a combination of 'learned helplesness" and how to NOT be themselves, rather than teaching them the many things they are capable of, their awesomeness, and their right and responsibility to stand up and declare their rights to be accepted for their incredibly unique wiring.


This is a good summary of absolutely dire situation that many people on the spectrum face. The status quo is so bad, and fails so many people that radical experiments for an alternative should be on the cards.

Last month I went to Autscape which a three retreat run by, and for Autistic people. It actually turned out quite well, and most people there seemed really happy and got along well. Whether that can work for a permanent community remains to be seen, but I think it will be worth a try. Whether it works or not depends how much the participants want it to work.



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14 Sep 2014, 7:46 pm

I'm not sure how well I'd fit into an aspie-only society, because in some ways, I'm actually kinda "NT". For instance, the first thing I usually notice about a person is their face, and from what I've heard, a lot of aspies struggle with "face blindness". Another thing that makes me seem more "NT" than the average aspie is that I care a lot about what other people think of me, and I can be quite self-conscious at times. Of course, I often suffer from a degree of depersonalization, in that when I look at myself in the mirror sometimes, I don't see the person *I* think I am. It's kind of like how Neo's mental apperance of himself in The Matrix differs from how he looks outside of The Matrix.



olympiadis
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14 Sep 2014, 8:07 pm

The title does state "super high functioning aspies", so much of the concerns stated here shouldn't really apply.

I think the intent was to create an environment full of individuals with exceptional gifted abilities, and provide some means of encouraging that gift instead of hindering it, - possibly also some sort of synergistic effect from grouping certain individuals together for collaboration and cooperation.



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14 Sep 2014, 11:21 pm

vickygleitz wrote:
LupaLuna wrote:
What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.


YES! YES! YES!


I agree with you both on this one.


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15 Sep 2014, 7:15 pm

Charloz wrote:
LupaLuna wrote:
What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.


We have pretty much the same rights as anyone else, though. There's only a few situations in which we'd be discriminated against. Like if you are afraid you wouldn't be hired for a certain function if you disclose your condition, keep your mouth shut and don't mention it. High functioning autistic people should have the common sense to keep their diagnoses to themselves in situations honesty might screw them over. Do that and you'll never be discriminated against as AS people.

Give me three important things a movement could achieve that we don't already have?


But that's not really the point. What you're saying is that we won't be discriminated against, as long as we pretend to be normal. Why should we have to pretend to be something we're not just to get the same rights as everyone else? That's like saying to a black person in the 60s "Just paint your skin white, and you won't be discriminated against," or to the gays in the 90s, "Just pretend to be straight, then you'll be fine." Autism is a large part of our identity; why should we be forced to keep it a secret? I haven't disclosed AS to my employers for fear of discrimination, but if I could make them aware of it, they wouldn't keep setting me up to do tasks the way an NT does them, then look down on me when I fail. I can do the work, I just need a little adjustment, adjustment I can't get unless I disclose my diagnosis and put myself at risk of termination for some "problem unrelated to my autism".


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16 Sep 2014, 1:20 am

StarTrekker wrote:
Charloz wrote:
LupaLuna wrote:
What we really need is an "Autistic" rights movement, just like there was the "Black" rights movement of the 60's and the "Gay" rights movement of the 90's.


We have pretty much the same rights as anyone else, though. There's only a few situations in which we'd be discriminated against. Like if you are afraid you wouldn't be hired for a certain function if you disclose your condition, keep your mouth shut and don't mention it. High functioning autistic people should have the common sense to keep their diagnoses to themselves in situations honesty might screw them over. Do that and you'll never be discriminated against as AS people.

Give me three important things a movement could achieve that we don't already have?


But that's not really the point. What you're saying is that we won't be discriminated against, as long as we pretend to be normal. Why should we have to pretend to be something we're not just to get the same rights as everyone else? That's like saying to a black person in the 60s "Just paint your skin white, and you won't be discriminated against," or to the gays in the 90s, "Just pretend to be straight, then you'll be fine." Autism is a large part of our identity; why should we be forced to keep it a secret? I haven't disclosed AS to my employers for fear of discrimination, but if I could make them aware of it, they wouldn't keep setting me up to do tasks the way an NT does them, then look down on me when I fail. I can do the work, I just need a little adjustment, adjustment I can't get unless I disclose my diagnosis and put myself at risk of termination for some "problem unrelated to my autism".


This is brilliant Startrekker, that's exactly the problem.
And the reason for such discrimination has actually nothing to do with any ability or disability to carry out the required tasks.
One thing that took me very long to understand and that I'm still struggling with is the obsession with status, pecking-order and competition, which is so pervasive in NT society.
It is the Aspie's very brilliance in their own field of expertise which is perceived as a threat by NT's who suffer from a sense of inferiority when confronted with it.
Most of the time I was pretty much oblivious to these power struggles taking place under the surface, I simply couldn't understand why people were mean to each other for no apparent reason. For if you don't "suck up" and "kick down" like all the others do, you are automatically the under-dog, with no one further below you.
I believe that among other things, it was also my natural inclination to treat everybody as equal that made me an outsider in any group at school or at work.