Aspiton: A haven for Super High Functioning Aspies

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Callista
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16 Sep 2014, 2:56 am

And let's not forget that some of us can't hide it even if we want to. On my absolute best days, for a short time, I can pretend to be NT successfully and fool most people for about half an hour. For me, that's as good as it gets, and I don't bother to do even that because I feel I should have the right to be myself.

What could an autism rights movement give us that we don't have now?

Jobs. We're unemployed at a rate that's high even for people with disabilities, and many of the unemployed are perfectly capable of working. Many of the ones who are working, do so at sheltered workshops often earning less than a dollar an hour.

Equal protection from harm. We're several times more likely to become crime victims, and among the people who victimize us the most are the caretakers and family members who are supposed to protect us. We are the victims of sexual abuse, rape, and murder at much higher rates than non-disabled people. Many types of abuse are even seen as legitimate precisely because they are done to disabled people--for example, chemical and physical restraints, abusive therapy, lack of privacy, etc.

Self-determination. Anytime we are involved with professionals, whether doctors, therapists, or support staff, there is a huge power difference. They decide for us even though we can decide for ourselves; any decision we make for ourselves is one they have let us make. They have credibility; we don't. They are the heroic helpers; we are the manipulative patients. We have no one to turn to when we are declared "a danger to self or others".

Equality under the law--in reality, not just in theory. We are still disproportionately the victims of police beatings and police shootings. When someone kills an autistic person, their sentence is likely to be much lighter than if they had killed a non-autistic person. When an autistic person makes a complaint, they are less likely to be listened to. When an autistic child is bullied, the perpetrators are rarely punished, and the autistic child is often blamed instead.

Access to appropriate education.
Many autistic children are sequestered in special education programs where they are taught to look as normal as possible, while their talents are left untrained. Others cannot access normal public schools, but seem "too normal" to get the help they need. Most universities are not autistic-friendly, even though many autistic people can and want to study for a university degree.

Access to services that we need to live. Whether it's a young child whose parents can't get a speech therapist, a young adult who can't get help paying the bills, or a barely-independent person whose social security check can't be stretched to cover the rent, many autistic people simply are not getting the basics of life--housing, food, and medical care, and the things we need to have to be able to access them. Autistic people still live way below the poverty line in many cases. Many are homeless.

Equality in society. We are still perceived as burdensome changelings, empty shells who are not quite human. People still think of "autistic people" as a category separate from "people". They think we are an epidemic, a crisis, a tragedy. They do not see us as neighbors, friends, and members of their communities. They want to create a world in which we do not exist. We are still treated like dirt simply for being different.

So, yes, we need an autism rights movement.


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Toy_Soldier
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16 Sep 2014, 4:49 am

It would be hard to manage as a society because while they can be very good in specific areas, flexibility and changes are weak areas. I think they would survive but it could get messy and devolve.



riley
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16 Sep 2014, 5:27 am

Verax wrote:
What if there was a place where guenius aspies could work in peace without the distractions that NTs bring.

I know it's a little Eurekaish but it's just a thought experient.

Would we become a threat to national security and culture by pumping out more tech and art than the NTs could handle once the NT distraction was removed?


I take it "Super high functioning Aspies" is meant to also specify a certain type of autism that you do not want in the group? Sorry it smacks of elitism rather than an attempt to create equality.

HomerZ... (Someone will get the reference).


I also don't see how these "Super high functioning aspies" are going to suddenly be a threat to national security..



Toy_Soldier
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16 Sep 2014, 9:38 am

riley wrote:
...I also don't see how these "Super high functioning aspies" are going to suddenly be a threat to national security..


People can think you are a threat even if you are not. Hypothetically speaking, if an ASD state was formed I think other nations would have a very wide variety of responses to it, from bewilderment to paranoia. That is because it would be something without precedent and they would not know what to expect, and being an unknown - fear it.



calstar2
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16 Sep 2014, 11:13 am

"Super high functioning Aspies"

Looks like I won't be receiving an invitation. :roll:



sharkattack
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16 Sep 2014, 11:19 am

riley wrote:
Verax wrote:
What if there was a place where guenius aspies could work in peace without the distractions that NTs bring.

I know it's a little Eurekaish but it's just a thought experient.

Would we become a threat to national security and culture by pumping out more tech and art than the NTs could handle once the NT distraction was removed?


I take it "Super high functioning Aspies" is meant to also specify a certain type of autism that you do not want in the group? Sorry it smacks of elitism rather than an attempt to create equality.

HomerZ... (Someone will get the reference).


I also don't see how these "Super high functioning aspies" are going to suddenly be a threat to national security..


Yes I just realised that super high functioning aspies what a joke.

I am on the part of the spectrum that use to get an aspergers diagnosis but I can not form friendships or relationships so I guess I would not be welcome not that I would want to go anyway. :lol:

OP I and respectful of evey poster on this board and I never ever get personal unless asked.
The only opinion I will offer is on your post.

My opinion try again. :)

Now that is out of the way let us move on.



Charloz
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16 Sep 2014, 11:43 am

calstar2 wrote:
"Super high functioning Aspies"

Looks like I won't be receiving an invitation. :roll:


Super high functioning Aspies, also known as: NT. :lol:



olympiadis
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16 Sep 2014, 2:12 pm

Callista wrote:
And let's not forget that some of us can't hide it even if we want to. On my absolute best days, for a short time, I can pretend to be NT successfully and fool most people for about half an hour. For me, that's as good as it gets, and I don't bother to do even that because I feel I should have the right to be myself.

What could an autism rights movement give us that we don't have now?

Jobs. We're unemployed at a rate that's high even for people with disabilities, and many of the unemployed are perfectly capable of working. Many of the ones who are working, do so at sheltered workshops often earning less than a dollar an hour.

Equal protection from harm. We're several times more likely to become crime victims, and among the people who victimize us the most are the caretakers and family members who are supposed to protect us. We are the victims of sexual abuse, rape, and murder at much higher rates than non-disabled people. Many types of abuse are even seen as legitimate precisely because they are done to disabled people--for example, chemical and physical restraints, abusive therapy, lack of privacy, etc.

Self-determination. Anytime we are involved with professionals, whether doctors, therapists, or support staff, there is a huge power difference. They decide for us even though we can decide for ourselves; any decision we make for ourselves is one they have let us make. They have credibility; we don't. They are the heroic helpers; we are the manipulative patients. We have no one to turn to when we are declared "a danger to self or others".

Equality under the law--in reality, not just in theory. We are still disproportionately the victims of police beatings and police shootings. When someone kills an autistic person, their sentence is likely to be much lighter than if they had killed a non-autistic person. When an autistic person makes a complaint, they are less likely to be listened to. When an autistic child is bullied, the perpetrators are rarely punished, and the autistic child is often blamed instead.

Access to appropriate education.
Many autistic children are sequestered in special education programs where they are taught to look as normal as possible, while their talents are left untrained. Others cannot access normal public schools, but seem "too normal" to get the help they need. Most universities are not autistic-friendly, even though many autistic people can and want to study for a university degree.

Access to services that we need to live. Whether it's a young child whose parents can't get a speech therapist, a young adult who can't get help paying the bills, or a barely-independent person whose social security check can't be stretched to cover the rent, many autistic people simply are not getting the basics of life--housing, food, and medical care, and the things we need to have to be able to access them. Autistic people still live way below the poverty line in many cases. Many are homeless.

Equality in society. We are still perceived as burdensome changelings, empty shells who are not quite human. People still think of "autistic people" as a category separate from "people". They think we are an epidemic, a crisis, a tragedy. They do not see us as neighbors, friends, and members of their communities. They want to create a world in which we do not exist. We are still treated like dirt simply for being different.

So, yes, we need an autism rights movement.



Great post!


Birdsleep wrote:
It is the Aspie's very brilliance in their own field of expertise which is perceived as a threat by NT's who suffer from a sense of inferiority when confronted with it.

I believe that among other things, it was also my natural inclination to treat everybody as equal that made me an outsider in any group at school or at work.


+1


StarTrekker wrote:
What you're saying is that we won't be discriminated against, as long as we pretend to be normal. Why should we have to pretend to be something we're not just to get the same rights as everyone else?


+1



Toy_Soldier
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16 Sep 2014, 2:49 pm

On high function, low function, etc.

'In for a penny, in for a pound' is the way I would put it, which is to say either you have autism or you do not. If you do, it does not matter to what degree you have it, in the eyes of the NT world... you are one of 'them'. One of us.

But I do not think the OP meant any offense as he already stated. It was just some fictional daydreaming.

I played with a similar idea in a story I started writing here, where a research facility was created to be entirely staffed by autistics, in an attempt to harness their unusual skills. But it was only the research staff that was autistic. The management, security and services were all NT and ultimately it was to become a situation of exploitation. Didn't finish it though. :roll:



Spectacles
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16 Sep 2014, 5:10 pm

olympiadis wrote:
I believe that aspies as a group are a great resource that has be squandered.


Yes!


1401b wrote:
So, with a slight modification, I think your plan would work excellently.


So, Plato's kings?



Callista
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16 Sep 2014, 8:47 pm

I got the impression that by "super high functioning" the OP meant "Aspies with an unusually great amount of talent in areas that are economically marketable" and was talking about creating a sort of sheltered workshop for people who (unlike the typical sheltered workshop) have highly skilled occupations, and are paid decent wages.

I think that is an interesting concept, because there are many autistic people who are capable of high-level work but still need high-level support. Where are they supposed to find work? But I would not call them "super-high-functioning", because that's a vague term. I would say "twice exceptional", perhaps--gifted and disabled.


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btbnnyr
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16 Sep 2014, 9:15 pm

I already live in something similar to such a society, and I lived in the past in something almost identical to such a society, and it was awesom, and it is awesome, the less neurotypical traits the bester. I should add that the almost identical society was a subsociety of the similar society, so they were within the same overall society, but just the subsociety was much more autistic than the overall supersociety, and I would say almost completely free of NT influence or distractions, it was great. The supersociety has some amount of NT influence, but it is possible for an autistic person to pursue their own interests mostly free from NT distractions, and such a pursuit is a ideal of the society.


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Obstinate
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17 Sep 2014, 1:48 am

Lol @ the idea of becoming a threat to national security while making inventions in a cave.

All this Aspie genius superiority BS gets old fast on this site. Really, without collaboration and a strong team to market your product ,your inventions will be moot. If they don't impact society what are you really inventing?

People need to quit pretending all Aspies are absolute geniuses and some advanced life form. Have a brain but don't know how to articulate your thoughts? Then how do people really know you're intelligent at all? Still have to survive and all in this world of limited resources.



mr_bigmouth_502
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17 Sep 2014, 9:26 pm

^I agree.

Part of the reason why Aspergers/autism is considered a DISability is because it makes it difficult for a lot of us to do many of the things NTs take for granted. Now, ASD affects everyone differently, and for some people it's not even disabling, but for many it is. That's not to say being an aspie is all that bad, because it can have some advantages as well, but it's not like people with ASD are superior to other people. We're all human, and humans are nothing more than highly-evolved animals.



riley
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17 Sep 2014, 9:58 pm

Obstinate wrote:
Lol @ the idea of becoming a threat to national security while making inventions in a cave.

All this Aspie genius superiority BS gets old fast on this site. Really, without collaboration and a strong team to market your product ,your inventions will be moot. If they don't impact society what are you really inventing?

People need to quit pretending all Aspies are absolute geniuses and some advanced life form. Have a brain but don't know how to articulate your thoughts? Then how do people really know you're intelligent at all? Still have to survive and all in this world of limited resources.


Yep it got old many years ago.

I get tired of seeing people claim that aspie=genius. If you're a genius, talented or intellectually superior to "NTs" actually PROVE it instead of perpetuating a stereotype which only applies to a small percentage of people with HFA.