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mr_bigmouth_502
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12 Sep 2014, 6:40 pm

I've been officially diagnosed, but I pass so well for "normal" that people tend to ignore or downplay the issues I do have. It's absolutely frustrating, I mean, why the f**k else do I not have a job, or a car, or a girlfriend? I know I need a job to pay the bills, but I don't really care about the other things.



DeepHour
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12 Sep 2014, 6:44 pm

billiscool wrote:

what about BPD.Even experts can't tell the difference between bpd and ASD.



And what should that tell you about the "experts"?

Psychiatry is more an Art than a Science. These people may be able to give an informed opinion, based on their observations, but they can't "know" a person has an ASD. In that sense it's still a subjective verdict rather than an objective one.

sharkattack wrote:
I think in a lot of cases it is pretty obvious when people have clear autistic traits.


I've had over half a century of living with just about all the social, interpersonal, attitudinal and sensory issues that are widely described as autistic traits, and on that basis I'm as sure as any expert (who might give me two or three hours of his or her time) that I'm in the ASD arena. I come on this site to read and learn from the experiences of others, whether diagnosed or not, to offer the odd perspective of my own (for what that's worth), and to play wordgames in "Off The Wall"! I have no interest in belittling the social skills of the OP or anyone else, and have noticed very little of that anywhere on WP.



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12 Sep 2014, 7:01 pm

One of the main reasons why I can't financially afford to have a proper diagnosis done is that I am an under-achiever,
precisely because of my autistic condition.
As people with Aspergers syndrome usually have above average intelligence, it is fairly easy for most of them to
work it out for themselves whether they have those autistic traits or not.
In addition to that I got plenty of confirmation from people who know me well, that I indeed have those traits and difficulties
with my perception and hypersensitive nervous system.
Spending so much money on someone telling me what I already know serves no purpose at all, especially when I need the money to
have some dental treatment done, which does serve a practical purpose.
And I can't see any logical relation between not having a diagnosis and putting people down for their difficulties in coping with life either.



L_Holmes
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12 Sep 2014, 7:03 pm

I've not been officially diagnosed (yet), but I have a provisional diagnosis. I know that I have never done what you are describing, nor have I seen many others, if any, who did. I have seen people that say they don't have as much problem with social interaction as some of us, but I am pretty sure they weren't saying it to try to tell others they were better than them, usually it was because (at least for undiagnosed individuals) they were asked about it, because in their original post they said they weren't sure if they had it or not.

I could see how it might be annoying for some if they see someone claiming that they probably have ASD, yet have few problems in life with social interaction or functioning in general, because in an indirect way it does downplay the issues that many on the spectrum have; in these cases they seem like they have not really put in a whole lot of thought about it, and it is confusing to me sometimes because I don't understand why they are wondering about it if they don't have any problems in the first place. Some people I've seen that have done it admit that they haven't had many, if any, significant problems.

But that still doesn't mean they are trying to offend people, they may just be curious because people around them keep telling them "You must be an Aspie because...", so they want to get an opinion from people who actually know first-hand what it's like. Even if they do have something else, or nothing at all, so what? If someone is trying to put others down, someone else will call them out for it. I definitely would if I saw it happening. I think you may just be misinterpreting people's intentions; then again, I still don't even know who exactly you are referring to, as I've never really seen anything like that on here.


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billiscool
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12 Sep 2014, 7:14 pm

L_Holmes wrote:

I could see how it might be annoying for some if they see someone claiming that they probably have ASD, yet have few problems in life with social interaction or functioning in general, because in an indirect way it does downplay the issues that many on the spectrum have; in these cases they seem like they have not really put in a whole lot of thought about it, and it is confusing to me sometimes because I don't understand why they are wondering about it if they don't have any problems in the first place. Some people I've seen that have done it admit that they haven't had many, if any, significant problems.

.


Yeah,that's pretty much it.There is an Older female poster here
that use to put people down because they couldn't just go
out and succeed like she could.If you just do A,then you
could succeed just like her.



SignOfLazarus
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12 Sep 2014, 7:31 pm

Ultimately, "this is the internet".

If people are saying they have been diagnosed, that in practice on WrongPlanet has as much credibility as the people who believe they are on the spectrum but who do not have any official diagnosis because there is really not often any way to actually 100% confirm either way.

The only way to deal with this possible uncertainty in this case is to just assume that everyone is telling the truth and is accurate in their judgement until there is very very good reason to assume otherwise, really. Otherwise it will become a witch hunt- and then anyone becomes a witch. Not a good time.


There are also a lot of reasons ASD can be misdiagnosed as BPD- a lot of the time it has to do with stigmatization within mental health systems, not necessarily just presentation of symptoms. Suckity suck.


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calstar2
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12 Sep 2014, 7:33 pm

I've not seen what you're talking about first hand, but I will be honest and say that sometimes I find it annoying when self-suspecting or even diagnosed people whose most impacting issues are all social try to give advice on major difficulties with independent living skills and daily functioning. Kind of different, but yeah.

Anyways, I don't think it's okay for anybody, officially diagnosed or otherwise, to downplay others difficulties on this site just because they personally do not share them or do not share them to the same degree. Although, I do understand being completely apathetic to certain issues on here, but if they aren't able to understand what the other is going through, then it's better to just refrain from replying. That's that imo.



L_Holmes
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12 Sep 2014, 7:36 pm

billiscool wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:

I could see how it might be annoying for some if they see someone claiming that they probably have ASD, yet have few problems in life with social interaction or functioning in general, because in an indirect way it does downplay the issues that many on the spectrum have; in these cases they seem like they have not really put in a whole lot of thought about it, and it is confusing to me sometimes because I don't understand why they are wondering about it if they don't have any problems in the first place. Some people I've seen that have done it admit that they haven't had many, if any, significant problems.

.


Yeah,that's pretty much it.There is an Older female poster here
that use to put people down because they couldn't just go
out and succeed like she could.If you just do A,then you
could succeed just like her.


Ok, I see what you're saying. I have really only gotten this kind of response from NT's, because many of them have the mentality that hard work solves everything, and that includes totally overcoming any disability, because they just don't know what it is like. I don't know who you are referring to, but I don't think they would be intentionally trying to put people down; I could be wrong.

The thing to remember, though, is that nobody has any real control over other people, especially not by telling people that they don't even know what to do online. If they want to think they know better than others then there's not a whole lot we can do, they can think what they want. If they are clearly bullying then they should be reported. But if they are just saying what they think, like that if others would just do this thing they'd be successful, they aren't really doing anything worth getting mad about, unless they are intending to cause conflict.


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SignOfLazarus
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12 Sep 2014, 7:37 pm

billiscool wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:

I could see how it might be annoying for some if they see someone claiming that they probably have ASD, yet have few problems in life with social interaction or functioning in general, because in an indirect way it does downplay the issues that many on the spectrum have; in these cases they seem like they have not really put in a whole lot of thought about it, and it is confusing to me sometimes because I don't understand why they are wondering about it if they don't have any problems in the first place. Some people I've seen that have done it admit that they haven't had many, if any, significant problems.

.


Yeah,that's pretty much it.There is an Older female poster here
that use to put people down because they couldn't just go
out and succeed like she could.If you just do A,then you
could succeed just like her.


I agree that this kind of situation is extremely frustrating in that the litmus test is supposed to be a certain amount of dysfunction, and also there is pretty decent reason to believe that not everyone's experience is the same. Environment; physical, cognitive, emotional resources; education; socioeconomic status; support system. On and on. There's likely a certain amount of random opportunity to some of it that factors in as well.

But if your functioning is not diminished in the first place, I'm not sure how you could claim to have any kind of diagnosis- official or otherwise. To be diagnosed with anything is to deviate from the norm because there is difficulty in functioning [whether it is merely a difficulty coping or something else]. If this isn't present i don't understand how there could be anything to diagnose... nor why one would seek a diagnosis. Why would it be helpful?


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skibum
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12 Sep 2014, 7:58 pm

billiscool wrote:

Yeah,that's pretty much it.There is an Older female poster here
that use to put people down because they couldn't just go
out and succeed like she could.If you just do A,then you
could succeed just like her.


Oh, now I can see why you are upset and this is making much more sense. If this is the case, however, that it is just one person who used to do this and if it is bothering you so much than it would be best to take it up with her. But if you are not able to reach her or if you do not feel able to confront her directly than this post you wrote here should have been mentioned in your original post. That would have made so much more sense and been much more accurate and fair than just making a general statement about undiagnosed people doing something here that they have not been doing.


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Last edited by skibum on 12 Sep 2014, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

L_Holmes
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12 Sep 2014, 7:59 pm

SignOfLazarus wrote:
billiscool wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:

I could see how it might be annoying for some if they see someone claiming that they probably have ASD, yet have few problems in life with social interaction or functioning in general, because in an indirect way it does downplay the issues that many on the spectrum have; in these cases they seem like they have not really put in a whole lot of thought about it, and it is confusing to me sometimes because I don't understand why they are wondering about it if they don't have any problems in the first place. Some people I've seen that have done it admit that they haven't had many, if any, significant problems.

.


Yeah,that's pretty much it.There is an Older female poster here
that use to put people down because they couldn't just go
out and succeed like she could.If you just do A,then you
could succeed just like her.


I agree that this kind of situation is extremely frustrating in that the litmus test is supposed to be a certain amount of dysfunction, and also there is pretty decent reason to believe that not everyone's experience is the same. Environment; physical, cognitive, emotional resources; education; socioeconomic status; support system. On and on. There's likely a certain amount of random opportunity to some of it that factors in as well.

But if your functioning is not diminished in the first place, I'm not sure how you could claim to have any kind of diagnosis- official or otherwise. To be diagnosed with anything is to deviate from the norm because there is difficulty in functioning [whether it is merely a difficulty coping or something else]. If this isn't present i don't understand how there could be anything to diagnose... nor why one would seek a diagnosis. Why would it be helpful?


My thoughts exactly. I have seen people in my life claim they think they have this or that, yet have almost no problems functioning, so it seems more based on getting attention. They think they have ADD because they don't pay attention in some of their classes and they sometimes lose their keys. They think they have OCD if they like to be very neat and organized. And the list goes on.

To me it seems to be a social thing, for some reason that I don't understand they think it would be cool to have these disorders; but they never even seek out a real diagnosis because they don't have a problem to begin with. People seem to assume that a mental disorder is totally based on personality traits rather than the fact that it is disabling in some way.

It seems to me that most "normal" people just don't think about anything; they jump to conclusions and make connections that aren't there. It is extremely annoying.


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iammaz
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13 Sep 2014, 11:26 am

SignOfLazarus wrote:
Otherwise it will become a witch hunt- and then anyone becomes a witch. Not a good time.


Can i be a wizard instead?



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13 Sep 2014, 12:25 pm

iammaz wrote:
SignOfLazarus wrote:
Otherwise it will become a witch hunt- and then anyone becomes a witch. Not a good time.


Can i be a wizard instead?

YES!


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13 Sep 2014, 12:41 pm

skibum wrote:
billiscool wrote:

Yeah,that's pretty much it.There is an Older female poster here
that use to put people down because they couldn't just go
out and succeed like she could.If you just do A,then you
could succeed just like her.


Oh, now I can see why you are upset and this is making much more sense. If this is the case, however, that it is just one person who used to do this and if it is bothering you so much than it would be best to take it up with her. But if you are not able to reach her or if you do not feel able to confront her directly than this post you wrote here should have been mentioned in your original post. That would have made so much more sense and been much more accurate and fair than just making a general statement about undiagnosed people doing something here that they have not been doing.


Sorry, skibum, for disagreeing with you, but I could understand what billi was saying in the OP itself. I thought I might paraphrase it but then I can see L_Holmes has already done it beautifully (in the 19th reply).



skibum
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13 Sep 2014, 1:23 pm

jk1 wrote:
Sorry, skibum, for disagreeing with you, but I could understand what billi was saying in the OP itself. I thought I might paraphrase it but then I can see L_Holmes has already done it beautifully (in the 19th reply).


No need to apologize jk1. I am fine if you disagree. I think that there was some confusion though. I assume that the post you are referring to from L_Holmes is this one:
"I could see how it might be annoying for some if they see someone claiming that they probably have ASD, yet have few problems in life with social interaction or functioning in general, because in an indirect way it does downplay the issues that many on the spectrum have; in these cases they seem like they have not really put in a whole lot of thought about it, and it is confusing to me sometimes because I don't understand why they are wondering about it if they don't have any problems in the first place. Some people I've seen that have done it admit that they haven't had many, if any, significant problems."

Please correct me if I am wrong. I did not count the post entries. I agree with what L_Holmes has said and I understand that Billiscool feels this way. I have no problem with that. The problem is that in the OP, he does not actually say this. He may have meant this, and I see that he has clarified later once L_Holmes posted this that this is indeed what he meant. But in the OP he made a broad generalized statement that was easily perceived that pretty much everyone who is unofficially diagnosed puts down others who are officially diagnosed all the time on this site because of their suffering. That is not true nor is it fair. And he did not use those words exactly but that was very much what I perceived that he meant by how his OP was stated. And I don't think I was the only one who perceived it that way. So for those who perceived it that way, it made no sense that he would say such a thing because it is just not true.

Then he spoke about one specific member who used to do that. So in that case, the appropriate thing would be to talk about it directly with that one member and not accuse every other undiagnosed person of doing this. This is what I said.

Now what L_Holmes said actually is a valid point and I can see how people would feel what they feel according to his point. And I agree that it is a valid point and one that people may need to think about. Personally, I think that if your life is not impaired you are not disabled. At the moment I am one of those people who is unofficially diagnosed. But there is a reason for that. It does not mean that I don't suffer, it does not mean that my life is not impaired. I have some friendships and I am married and even though I have those relationships, they are not easy. I think it can be a great mistake for those who are not capable of having those relationships to think that just because some people who are on the Spectrum have them, those relationships are easy. Trust me, they are not easy to maintain at all and most of the challenges come from Spectrum related issues.

Also those on the Spectrum who have jobs don't always have an easy time with their jobs either. Many are extremely challenged trying to function at their jobs. So just because someone is able to do these things does not mean that it is not super challenging for that person. And just because someone is not officially diagnosed. it does not mean that that person is not on the Spectrum and dealing with the challenges that diagnosed people deal with.

But as far as people putting other people down because they suffer, that is just not the case here. Now what L_Holmes said, where people might feel like they are being indirectly put down because other people might not struggle as much as they do, that is not the doing of the person who is not struggling as much. That feeling is coming from the person feeling it. There is nothing that can be done about that and the person feeling it just has to understand that that feeling is coming from within his or her own insecurities and he or she has to overcome that within him or herself.

A better way for the OP to have stated his feelings would have been to say, " I feel annoyed because I feel like I am being put down because of how people express and share about their life situations" and then gone on to give more specifics on why he felt that way. Then if he wanted to talk about that we could talk about it. But to just say I am annoyed because people are doing this is not fair because people are not doing that. No one is directly or purposefully putting anyone else down because of their suffering so it is an unjust accusation. And people who may or may not be on the Spectrum who are sharing their lives, I am sure, they are not thinking, "how can we put down Billiscool every time we post." I think they are just sharing their lives just like every ones else is. And if you don't like their lives then don't read their posts.

Bottom line is, unless you are another person or unless you know that person personally, you have no idea what his or her life is like outside of what you read on a post. You don't know what that person struggles with. There are many things that I struggle with immensely that I never write about. You have no idea what that person deals with in a marriage or in a job or in a friendship day to day. If they don't tell you, you don't know. So for you to assume that they don't struggle or for you to assume that they are putting people down, those are huge assumptions that you really don't have a solid basis to make. So I recommend that you try not to get annoyed by what you assume someone might be doing because you could be totally way off. And you certainly can't make a judgement about how easy or difficult a person's life is unless you know that person personally and I doubt that is the case on an online forum. You also can't tell if the person is on the Spectrum or not by just reading posts. So I think it is best not to make these kinds of assumptions and if you don't like what someone is saying, don't assume that he is trying to put others down, just move on to another thread or post.


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billiscool
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13 Sep 2014, 2:50 pm

but if a person is not officially diagnosis with ASD,then how do they really know
they overcame ASD.Or prove to people you can succeed with ASD,if they
may or may not actually have it.