Page 3 of 3 [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 107
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,406
Location: Dystopia Planetia

15 Sep 2014, 2:48 pm

TallyMan wrote:
azaam wrote:
scientific evidence the Quran is from God


You have a pretty poor comprehension of what constitutes empirical scientific evidence. Have you ever studied any science?

There are still Muslims who think the earth is flat because that is what is implied in your Quran:

Image

The Quran, Bible, Torah, Upanishads, etc are all mythology, written by man. They are no more credible than the tales of Zeus or Odin. End of story.



:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:



Barchan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 697

20 Sep 2014, 9:49 am

:? It makes me sad to see faith in God mocked so openly. I don't believe in Zeus or Odin, but I don't try to belittle those who do.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,128

20 Sep 2014, 10:23 am

^^

Me too, but even sadder to me is the more obvious reality of life that misery loves company. To believe and have faith and or hope in anything is better than misery in my estimation; any now of any now.

But that's the 'whole' point; the symbolic nature of life is real and so are the tangible human emotions of faith, belief and hope for those who find a way to connect the dots of emotion/heart and life; along with logic/reason, of course. One without the other, often results in human suffering.

The myths matter not; the substance or essence is what is important.

Whatever path takes a person to 'whole' life matters only now, once one arrives.

So in this scenario what is often seen is wandering souls with one half or the other of the whole pie of life.

There are elements of truth to be learned across the bridge of both rivers of being in reason and heart. And perhaps art.

The greatest parts of the Quran that ring true are in the art of emotion, but no, not science as it stands today. But never the less that does not negate the parts than ring true for the core of human being that generates rationality too, and yes, that is heart aka emotion, as now science more fully shows in catching up with the Quran and other religious texts that have this figured out for all of recorded history.

As much as I might not agree with the details of what the folks profess and believe, per mythological tales with deeper meaning, who attend the churches religiously in my area; for the most part in real life they are content and happy with many friends who support each other in REAL life; and yes they do most definitely gain this through the social activities of organized brick and mortar churches.

In reality that is the bottom line of life; yes, per what science understands of it too, now.

Different paths work better than others.

Apparently.

The bottom line in life is and always will be what works. That is simply why folks do it.

It works. They are far from ignorant in the REAL game of life. But that's just common sense. And that requires much more than logic alone, or facts. It's part of big picture thinking and yes that most definitely does require proficiency in the art of heart and emotion. No, it's not rigidly constructed science and will never be as it flows; it is not a math or geometry equation with angles or squares.

But again, different paths of rivers; and most optimistically put, perhaps, the potential for bridges.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 107
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,406
Location: Dystopia Planetia

20 Sep 2014, 8:43 pm

Barchan wrote:
:? It makes me sad to see faith in God mocked so openly. I don't believe in Zeus or Odin, but I don't try to belittle those who do.


are you Muslim?



Barchan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 697

21 Sep 2014, 6:31 am

Yep! What about you?



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

21 Sep 2014, 6:37 am

Barchan wrote:
:? It makes me sad to see faith in God mocked so openly. I don't believe in Zeus or Odin, but I don't try to belittle those who do.


I think honestly it is fair game where evangelizing involves claims either trying to discredit science or, attach itself to it, especially if you go beyond the cherry picked soundbite and investigate the claims further.

Mock the ideas, and the doctrine. That doesn't mean I necessarily believe that all the practitioners or bad. I don't know what, other people did but for me I was criticizing the the ideas, or in fact the vagueness an brevity of them. This a valid criticism, when people claim doctrine validates or predicts science.

The reality is science never intended to clash with religion, it was the the church that locked up Galileo, not the other way round. Scientist are kind getting sick and tired of the evangelists playing the victim, or making false claims.

I gave the OP other alternative sources. So really it works both ways.



ZenDen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,730
Location: On top of the world

21 Sep 2014, 11:20 am

Barchan wrote:
" It makes me sad to see faith in God mocked so openly. I don't believe in Zeus or Odin, but I don't try to belittle those who do. "

But then many Muslims still think invasion of other peoples and forcing them to bow to Islam is correct.

This causes understandable polarization of attitudes and people will react. This is created by followers of Allah. Now you see the fallout.

I see no such actions or attitudes generated by those favoring Zeus or Odin (or almost all religions) and these people live in peace..

If Muslims were the peace loving and abiding people they would like us to believe, instead of killing other Muslims in their thousands (and Etc. x 1000), they should offer the hand of peace, but only offer the hand of war.

Attend to your own house before you complain of others.



Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

22 Sep 2014, 10:31 am

Barchan wrote:
Yep! What about you?


He was the one who started the thread and claimed that there was scientific proofs in the Quran. The claim was disputed and he made a pitiful effort to rebut any of those disputations. For that he was being criticized. Please notice that the criticism was not directed toward his choice of religion, rather that it was directed towards his lack of intellectual honesty.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


azaam
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2013
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 222
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

24 Dec 2014, 8:26 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
Barchan wrote:
Yep! What about you?


He was the one who started the thread and claimed that there was scientific proofs in the Quran. The claim was disputed and he made a pitiful effort to rebut any of those disputations. For that he was being criticized. Please notice that the criticism was not directed toward his choice of religion, rather that it was directed towards his lack of intellectual honesty.


I only lay down the evidence and my message and leave. There is no need for argument for people who will never believe and distort the evidence but I will happily reply to anyone who wants to learn as my intention is to attract the truthseeks, not the deniers of truth.


_________________
If nobody will give a s**t about me, then I will give a s**t about me.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,543
Location: Stendec

24 Dec 2014, 9:07 pm

azaam wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Barchan wrote:
Yep! What about you?
He was the one who started the thread and claimed that there was scientific proofs in the Quran. The claim was disputed and he made a pitiful effort to rebut any of those disputations. For that he was being criticized. Please notice that the criticism was not directed toward his choice of religion, rather that it was directed towards his lack of intellectual honesty.
I only lay down the evidence and my message and leave. There is no need for argument for people who will never believe and distort the evidence but I will happily reply to anyone who wants to learn as my intention is to attract the truthseeks, not the deniers of truth.
Truthseekers seek truth, but the truth must first be there. You have offered no truth, only convoluted word salads and your own subjective opinions, nothing more.

Religion is not evidence, and faith proves nothing. Science observes, measures, and verifies. Islam is just another set of claims that can not be substantiated, just like any other religion; thus, it is equal to Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and other religions of the Middle East.

There is no Truth in Islam, and there is no Islam in Truth.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


azaam
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2013
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 222
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

24 Dec 2014, 10:53 pm

"Say, "If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants." Quran verse 88

That is enough evidence for you. Read only if you are sincere in guidance. I prove enough logical evidence that suffices for any person who wants guidance. The Quran is not for you buddy if you don't want guidance.


_________________
If nobody will give a s**t about me, then I will give a s**t about me.


azaam
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2013
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 222
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

24 Dec 2014, 10:55 pm

Ill be fair and Ill give you a chance to completely support your case. Here is a challenge from the creator to mankind.

"O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -

[He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him].

And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a chapter the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.

But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."


_________________
If nobody will give a s**t about me, then I will give a s**t about me.


Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

24 Dec 2014, 11:55 pm

azaam wrote:
I only lay down the evidence and my message and leave. There is no need for argument for people who will never believe and distort the evidence but I will happily reply to anyone who wants to learn as my intention is to attract the truthseeks, not the deniers of truth.

You are the truth denier, sir.


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

25 Dec 2014, 12:13 am

If quoting scripture is speaking truth, then here's some more for you:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus

Based on this "truth," Jesus Christ is the only way to God. It is scripture. It is self-evident. It has to be true.

Oh wait. How can that be so if Muhammad's way is the true way? If quoting scripture is demonstrating "truth" then how can one be in conflict the other? Surely science can work this out?


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,543
Location: Stendec

25 Dec 2014, 12:32 am

Science has worked this out. Under the known principles of Science, all religions are equally invalid.

Go in peace.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

25 Dec 2014, 12:49 am

Fnord wrote:
Science has worked this out. Under the known principles of Science, all religions are equally invalid.

Go in peace.


“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.