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ASDMommyASDKid
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15 Sep 2014, 6:09 am

What do those of you with kids with dysgraphia do once they start using math textbooks instead of worksheets? I have a feeling getting my son to copy problems from a book is going to be a nightmare. Does anyone know what is generally done? Do they have the parent copy the problems and in essence make worksheets out of the problem pages?



pddtwinmom
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15 Sep 2014, 6:39 am

What about a copy machine? You can Xerox the pages with the problems, circle the ones he needs to answer, and attach his workpages behind. Would that work?



CWA
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15 Sep 2014, 10:06 am

Yeah I would scan them. My daughter hasn't been dxed with dysgraphia... but she probably should be. I'm going to look into it soon because I think she needs additional accomodations at school because her writing is... bad, like really bad and very very taxing on her. Anyway I already scan a good portion of her homework and let her type on it and then print or I print it out (after adding more space) and have her write on it. Her writing is still really large, often out of order or backwards, so she just needs more room than what is given often. If shes really stressed out I let her type it though. School didn't like it at first, but I told them I couldn't remember the last time I had to hand write a report at work. Typing is also a valuable skill. In the adult world writing is limited to signing documents, writing grocery lists, and leaving post it notes as reminders...



DW_a_mom
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15 Sep 2014, 12:45 pm

My son has permission to not copy over the problem, and/or permission to get a worksheet, and/or permission to make copies - depending up what is needed. That is in his current 504 and was in his IEP when he had one.

His current 504 also allows extended time and any computational tools appropriate for the material.

But the trouble with writing IS why he dropped out of honors math for a few years; he just couldn't handle the volume of work, which all involves writing. Regardless of what he was allowed to do, he never found it practical to do anything but copy over the problem if he needed the actual problem to start the work. And there is little he could do about the fact that gaining the solution involves writing. So, the double homework load common with an honors class was just too frustrating.

This year is, I believe, a little different, as he has done some research and found some software that appears to meet both his needs and the schools. I believe it allows him to type the problems but doesn't do any of the fancy work, but I don't really know as I am not involved at all anymore since, well, he is 17 and taking AP calculus. He's been making his own decisions for a few years now, and I'm only involved with things that are a paperwork hassle, like getting him his accommodations on the SAT.

The dysgraphia will create problems with all sorts of things. My son and I were discussing this just last night. He had always wanted to be an inventor, but now that he has been in an applied engineering/physics class for a year, he realizes he will never, ever, be able to create his own prototypes (I did point out to him that in real life someone else would probably build from his instructions, but these early years trying to do the prototypes himself have basically left him too discouraged, and he can't get the grades he needs for anyone else to appreciate his creativity, because the grades depend on pretty prototypes). He has also shied away from deciding to a be math or science or engineering major because of the trouble with writing. Anything that can't be generated in the cyber world or just in his own head is an inherently frustrating experience, so pretty much all career roads that can't be generated 100% in cyberspace have been crossed off the list by him. He plans to be a computer science major.

We have been told a few times now that his OT should not have been dropped the moment he became proficient at typing, and I can see the reasons why. At the time, everyone was following protocol, but I think now the protocol is to keep up the OT. Definitely continue OT with your son past the time when there seems to be an obvious need just for schoolwork; other doors are going to appear down the road and you want your child to have as many options as possible. I have no idea how much improvement can or can't be made with more OT, but there is only one way for you to find out.

There is no question in my mind that dysgraphia is a real and true disability. This isn't just a neurological difference. This is something that limits our children. As my son says, everyone has their "things," so in that way he has accepted it and it isn't that big a deal to him, but as a parent it makes me really sad at times. So much potential that this one problem is blocking.

Sorry for going off topic, just all that is the stuff swimming in my head as we start on the college application process this year.


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Mom to an amazing AS son, who recently graduated from the university (plus an also amazing non-AS daughter). Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


ASDMommyASDKid
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15 Sep 2014, 1:32 pm

Yeah....This is going to be fun. (not) I may have to scan and then reformat in another program, but even then it is going to be hard. I don't remember when we started getting problems that took 1/2 a page, to do; and I can't imagine that he is going to be able to do that, or have the patience for me to scribe for him.



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16 Sep 2014, 7:16 am

I have dysarthria for all my life - it's not the same but also causes heavy problems with writing.
Well, now I'm 27, I barely can write long text by hand (and almost never could read it :) ), often mistype when using keyboard but I was able to get MA in IT Engineering without serious problems.



ASDMommyASDKid
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16 Sep 2014, 7:19 am

Andreger wrote:
I have dysarthria for all my life - it's not the same but also causes heavy problems with writing.
Well, now I'm 27, I barely can write long text by hand (and almost never could read it :) ), often mistype when using keyboard but I was able to get MA in IT Engineering without serious problems.


Andreger,

How did you manage writing out the long proofs and other long problems?



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17 Sep 2014, 2:00 am

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Andreger,

How did you manage writing out the long proofs and other long problems?


Typing on keyboard is much easier. In school it was hard because we had no pcs in classes so I had additional lessons at home. And at the university I always used my laptop (like many other students had without such problems). I'm sure it is now common in almost each western country.

The most difficult was to fill all the forms by hand in the beginning of job interviews. Last time my future boss tired to wait me writing and told me to finish it after :-)

Just fixed three mistypes for this message. But in the internet it's not a problem at all.



zette
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17 Sep 2014, 8:29 am

@Andreger

How did you do things like calculus and physics, where typing algebraic equations is difficult to format? Did you use something like matlab or a postscript editor?

I'm kicking around a couple of ideas for developing apps on the ipad to make life easier for people with dysgraphia, but haven't really looked to see what's already out there. Top on my list are allowing you to take a picture of a form and then type to fill it out, something to allow alternate forms of input to an elementary-school worksheet, and something that would make doing college calculus homework on the screen easy.



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18 Sep 2014, 2:02 am

zette wrote:
@Andreger

How did you do things like calculus and physics, where typing algebraic equations is difficult to format? Did you use something like matlab or a postscript editor?

I'm kicking around a couple of ideas for developing apps on the ipad to make life easier for people with dysgraphia, but haven't really looked to see what's already out there. Top on my list are allowing you to take a picture of a form and then type to fill it out, something to allow alternate forms of input to an elementary-school worksheet, and something that would make doing college calculus homework on the screen easy.


Mathcad is nice thing, I was lucky then in university we had special course of how to use it. And in high school equations were not so terribly big especially that we didn't had to solve them with numbers most of time (before that... well, additional lessons at home in front of PC helped) - just compose correct formula with letters and understand what each means and why it should be at that particular position.



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18 Sep 2014, 2:06 am

One more - lestions in the university were terrible. I just wasn't able to write down or even type what professors say and show, it was too quick and too much of new materials.
However, they mainly used PowerPoint presentations for this so it was able to ask them for these materials. I'm sure if it was in Russia then it's much widespread in US and Europe especially then in US colleges and universities there are much less lections then in Russia.



pddtwinmom
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18 Sep 2014, 6:49 am

If it were me, I probably wouldn't even reformat the problems. I would literally take the book, photocopy the page that the problem is on, circle the problem, then attach my answer sheet to that page. Rinse, repeat. It's not super eco-friendly, but it saves so much time. I would lose my mind if I had to scan and reformat, making everything pretty. So, if it's not your thing to be that organized, or you don't have the time, I would give yourself permission to just let it go and do what is the most efficient use of your time.

I was a math major in the late 90s, and it is entirely possible to type out math answers, including proofs using a standard keyboard, at least it was then. I had to do it for a few research papers. It was a little tricky, probably for me because I was used to writing things out, so it felt weird. But, I would imagine that if you did it regularly, it would actually be faster than writing. Can your son start practicing this now? For my processing style, I preferred having the math questions in black and white (paper) so that I could handle them, carry the pages with me while I was noodling over something, underline pieces, etc, etc. I say that to say that I never liked reading math problems on a computer. My eyes jumped around too much, I don't really have the words to explain, but having them on paper made a stronger impression in my brain. BUT - it was pretty straightforward to me to have the questions on paper, then type the answers using a computer.

Sorry for the long rambling post. If children are really math-y, they are in good company with unusual learning and processing styles, etc, etc, even if they weren't on the spectrum. DW_a_Mom, if your son really loves math, when he gets to school he's going to meet bunch of "unusual" learners. He really will fit right in, and the professors will accommodate him. Because math people are weird. Like me. :lol: I don't know how to address the difficulty with class notes issue that was raised in an earlier post, but certainly typing math homework is entirely possible, and would be perfectly acceptable.



ASDMommyASDKid
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18 Sep 2014, 7:55 am

pddtwinmom wrote:
If it were me, I probably wouldn't even reformat the problems. I would literally take the book, photocopy the page that the problem is on, circle the problem, then attach my answer sheet to that page. Rinse, repeat. It's not super eco-friendly, but it saves so much time. I would lose my mind if I had to scan and reformat, making everything pretty. So, if it's not your thing to be that organized, or you don't have the time, I would give yourself permission to just let it go and do what is the most efficient use of your time.

I was a math major in the late 90s, and it is entirely possible to type out math answers, including proofs using a standard keyboard, at least it was then. I had to do it for a few research papers. It was a little tricky, probably for me because I was used to writing things out, so it felt weird. But, I would imagine that if you did it regularly, it would actually be faster than writing. Can your son start practicing this now? For my processing style, I preferred having the math questions in black and white (paper) so that I could handle them, carry the pages with me while I was noodling over something, underline pieces, etc, etc. I say that to say that I never liked reading math problems on a computer. My eyes jumped around too much, I don't really have the words to explain, but having them on paper made a stronger impression in my brain. BUT - it was pretty straightforward to me to have the questions on paper, then type the answers using a computer.

Sorry for the long rambling post. If children are really math-y, they are in good company with unusual learning and processing styles, etc, etc, even if they weren't on the spectrum. DW_a_Mom, if your son really loves math, when he gets to school he's going to meet bunch of "unusual" learners. He really will fit right in, and the professors will accommodate him. Because math people are weird. Like me. :lol: I don't know how to address the difficulty with class notes issue that was raised in an earlier post, but certainly typing math homework is entirely possible, and would be perfectly acceptable.


I was not a math major, but I did have to do papers with mathematics in it, from time to time. I am a horrible typist, so that was even harder. My son is coming along well with his typing, so if you all are saying it is not hard to type it, then that may be an option. (For a lousy typist, math is even harder to type than regular things, so I think that is where my assumptions are coming, that this would be hard to do.)

I think that is a good idea to get him started early.