Mother talks about killing her autistic daughter and herself

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Zeno
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08 Mar 2007, 7:14 am

sinsboldly wrote:
Well, I don't want to bore anyone, but my cousins tried to drown me, twice, my brother 'lost' me for four days in a National Forest and my mother watched behind the curtin when I fell out of the swing and knocked the breath out of me. None of them had Munchausen's by proxy, either. But I certainly was autistic and they certainly wanted me gone.

I watched two female cats lead a kitten that had seziures out and away from the farm. They abandoned it in the acres of thickly grown blackberry bushes and it yowled for days - then finally stopped yowling.

I don't think the cats were NT or the kitten AS. It just is what happened.


It is inspiring that you can keep up a positive attitude despite what your family members tried to do to you. There have already been quite a few people on this forum who have talked about how their own families tried to hurt them and the numbers are probably quite large. There was an article in the New York Times about this girl with two autistic brothers and it captures a candid picture of how anyone would react to having an autistic in the family. The magazine article paints this girl as coping with the stresses but you can see just how she imposes herself on her brothers. It also talks about the dread that she feels about maybe having to provide lifelong care to these two autistic brothers.

For family members to turn against or take out their frustration at the autistic child is just natural. The truth is that autism imposes a heavy penalty on the families who have to deal with it. And more often than not, the autistic child gets abused because there is no one else to blame.



ZanneMarie
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08 Mar 2007, 9:16 am

Zeno wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Well, I don't want to bore anyone, but my cousins tried to drown me, twice, my brother 'lost' me for four days in a National Forest and my mother watched behind the curtin when I fell out of the swing and knocked the breath out of me. None of them had Munchausen's by proxy, either. But I certainly was autistic and they certainly wanted me gone.

I watched two female cats lead a kitten that had seziures out and away from the farm. They abandoned it in the acres of thickly grown blackberry bushes and it yowled for days - then finally stopped yowling.

I don't think the cats were NT or the kitten AS. It just is what happened.


It is inspiring that you can keep up a positive attitude despite what your family members tried to do to you. There have already been quite a few people on this forum who have talked about how their own families tried to hurt them and the numbers are probably quite large. There was an article in the New York Times about this girl with two autistic brothers and it captures a candid picture of how anyone would react to having an autistic in the family. The magazine article paints this girl as coping with the stresses but you can see just how she imposes herself on her brothers. It also talks about the dread that she feels about maybe having to provide lifelong care to these two autistic brothers.

For family members to turn against or take out their frustration at the autistic child is just natural. The truth is that autism imposes a heavy penalty on the families who have to deal with it. And more often than not, the autistic child gets abused because there is no one else to blame.


What a bunch of nonsense. There is never any excuse to abuse. All kinds of caretakers abuse and it is not just those who care for people with Autism. You just want to defend what is indefensible and hence, why there are laws against it. The reason it continues is silence and this baseless rationalization that it is justified because it is so "horrible." Not all families react like this and not all caretakers. Your statement "a candid picture of how anyone would react to having an autistic in the family" is your opinion of the matter and nothing more. You do not speak for anyone. Your statement that "family members to turn against or take out their frustration at the autistic child is just natural" is repulsive and inflated, not to mention insulting to those who have not done this. Frankly, this is why you have the bigger brain. You are not the cat, that is why if you abuse a child, autistic or not, a jury of your peers will find you guilty and send you to jail. (I am using the universal and not personal you in this case). The truth of the matter is we all have choices as adults. They choose to stay in that situation and act as they do and for that they pay the consequences if they are caught. I have zero sympathy or tolerance for those people, nor should I. Abusers are always abusers and you are completely ignorant of abusive personalities if you think they are "created" by a condition. An abuser finds a reason to abuse and will abuse a "normal" person just as quickly. They'll just give another pathetic excuse just like you did here. To be perfectly frank, you need to get help for your own view that this is defensible and natural behavior. That kind of thinking is only going to lead your right down the same path.



Zeno
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08 Mar 2007, 9:50 am

ZanneMarie wrote:
What a bunch of nonsense. There is never any excuse to abuse. All kinds of caretakers abuse and it is not just those who care for people with Autism. You just want to defend what is indefensible and hence, why there are laws against it. The reason it continues is silence and this baseless rationalization that it is justified because it is so "horrible." Not all families react like this and not all caretakers. Your statement "a candid picture of how anyone would react to having an autistic in the family" is your opinion of the matter and nothing more. You do not speak for anyone. Your statement that "family members to turn against or take out their frustration at the autistic child is just natural" is repulsive and inflated, not to mention insulting to those who have not done this. Frankly, this is why you have the bigger brain. You are not the cat, that is why if you abuse a child, autistic or not, a jury of your peers will find you guilty and send you to jail. (I am using the universal and not personal you in this case). The truth of the matter is we all have choices as adults. They choose to stay in that situation and act as they do and for that they pay the consequences if they are caught. I have zero sympathy or tolerance for those people, nor should I. Abusers are always abusers and you are completely ignorant of abusive personalities if you think they are "created" by a condition. An abuser finds a reason to abuse and will abuse a "normal" person just as quickly. They'll just give another pathetic excuse just like you did here. To be perfectly frank, you need to get help for your own view that this is defensible and natural behavior. That kind of thinking is only going to lead your right down the same path.


There are two groups of people on this board – those who come to share their experiences, which can be very painful, and those who come to abuse and victimize others. You belong to the latter bucket and it stinks. You are right, there is never any excuse to abuse others, but you just did it.

Perhaps English is not your first language, but I have never attempted to justify abuse in any way. We have had numerous exchanges so you ought to know that my interest here is to point out to people that autistic children are vulnerable to abuse and that the people most likely to abuse them are their caretakers. There have already been numerous individuals on this board who have stepped forward to recount their childhood trauma. Having an autistic child in the family does create a great deal of strain for every family member and not everyone deals with it in the right way.

Until you learn some manners, this is the last time I will respond to you.

To Alex: shame on you for not taking action when others engage in such open bullying.



ZanneMarie
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08 Mar 2007, 10:20 am

This is a true statement - "autistic children are vulnerable to abuse and that the people most likely to abuse them are their caretakers" and this is a true statement - "Having an autistic child in the family does create a great deal of strain for every family member and not everyone deals with it in the right way." That is not the same as saying "anyone would react to having an autistic child" or "turn against or take out their frustation at an autistic child is just natural." If pointing that out to you made you realize you need to rephrase those statements, that's fine. If you see the difference yourself and just inadvertantly misworded your observations, that is fine as well. I object to justification of that action (even if was implied by mistake) because it creates victims and allows abusers to continue. If that is not your intent, just be careful of such words as "anyone" and "natural" because that is what they imply and if you look back over the responses to your posts you will see that happening time and again. Those people are not picking on you so much as your choice of words and the same goes for me.



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08 Mar 2007, 11:54 am

ZanneMarie wrote:
If you watch the entire video she says that "some" parents must put these kids in schools with classrooms with 12 kids per teacher.

12 kids to a teacher is that bad? I don't know what private tutor she had growing up, but 12 to a teacher is not a bad class size! A lot of classes are up to 30 kids. Complaining about a class size of 12 would be like if she complained about how she is so poor she can only afford to drive a camry. Well sure it would be nice to afford a bmw but to complain because you can't is ridiculous.



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08 Mar 2007, 1:26 pm

Juggernaut wrote:
ZanneMarie wrote:
If you watch the entire video she says that "some" parents must put these kids in schools with classrooms with 12 kids per teacher.

12 kids to a teacher is that bad? I don't know what private tutor she had growing up, but 12 to a teacher is not a bad class size! A lot of classes are up to 30 kids. Complaining about a class size of 12 would be like if she complained about how she is so poor she can only afford to drive a camry. Well sure it would be nice to afford a bmw but to complain because you can't is ridiculous.


That's why I thought it was a bizarre justification for those kinds of thoughts. Compared to what they complain about in a normal class, 12 kids didn't seem that tragic and certainly she had options. When I saw the entire video it made even less sense to me.

At first I thought it was her recalling a time when she felt overwhelming, but that convinced me it wasn't. Just made it even more strange to me.



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08 Mar 2007, 1:34 pm

Why didn't she consider just killing herself if she's so freakin' miserable and leaveJodie alone? Why take her with her? I don't understand that part. Is she implying that Jodie is somehow miserable and would want to die?


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MishLuvsHer2Boys
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08 Mar 2007, 6:04 pm

squaretail wrote:
Why didn't she consider just killing herself if she's so freakin' miserable and leaveJodie alone? Why take her with her? I don't understand that part. Is she implying that Jodie is somehow miserable and would want to die?


She was talking about her 'NT' daughter, not her autistic one.



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08 Mar 2007, 6:07 pm

She can give her autistic daughter to me :D and I'll raise her along with my other 4 girls.



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08 Mar 2007, 6:39 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:
ZanneMarie wrote:
If you watch the entire video she says that "some" parents must put these kids in schools with classrooms with 12 kids per teacher.

12 kids to a teacher is that bad? I don't know what private tutor she had growing up, but 12 to a teacher is not a bad class size! A lot of classes are up to 30 kids. Complaining about a class size of 12 would be like if she complained about how she is so poor she can only afford to drive a camry. Well sure it would be nice to afford a bmw but to complain because you can't is ridiculous.


That's why I thought it was a bizarre justification for those kinds of thoughts. Compared to what they complain about in a normal class, 12 kids didn't seem that tragic and certainly she had options. When I saw the entire video it made even less sense to me.

At first I thought it was her recalling a time when she felt overwhelming, but that convinced me it wasn't. Just made it even more strange to me.
i think Its because the more kids there are in class, the less one on one time each student will heve with each teacher. When i went to school(regular school) my "spc ed" classes never had more than ten kids per teacher some of the classes in the more "severly affected spc ed" had 4-5 students per teacher. if you think your kid needs a lot of extra help from teachers, and there in a class with a lot of other kids that need the same amount of help and less teacher, I geuss you would see it as your kid getting less help... <_<


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08 Mar 2007, 6:39 pm

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:
squaretail wrote:
Why didn't she consider just killing herself if she's so freakin' miserable and leaveJodie alone? Why take her with her? I don't understand that part. Is she implying that Jodie is somehow miserable and would want to die?


She was talking about her 'NT' daughter, not her autistic one.


Mish? Did you think she wanted to kill the normal daughter? Go back and rewatch. She wants to kill her Autistic daughter but she doesn't because of the normal daughter. Maybe I'm misreading what you wrote.



GoatOnFire
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08 Mar 2007, 6:43 pm

I think she was talking about driving off the bridge with the autistic daughter.

Controversy time: If she was really going to do it she should've brought both, get those genes out of the gene pool.



ZanneMarie
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08 Mar 2007, 6:48 pm

Well her brother is autistic which begs the question of why she even had them if it bothered her so much. She could have adopted some baby from overseas.



AspieGurl
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08 Mar 2007, 6:49 pm

I think people should adopt anyway


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Zeno
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08 Mar 2007, 7:06 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:
This is a true statement - "autistic children are vulnerable to abuse and that the people most likely to abuse them are their caretakers" and this is a true statement - "Having an autistic child in the family does create a great deal of strain for every family member and not everyone deals with it in the right way." That is not the same as saying "anyone would react to having an autistic child" or "turn against or take out their frustation at an autistic child is just natural." If pointing that out to you made you realize you need to rephrase those statements, that's fine. If you see the difference yourself and just inadvertantly misworded your observations, that is fine as well. I object to justification of that action (even if was implied by mistake) because it creates victims and allows abusers to continue. If that is not your intent, just be careful of such words as "anyone" and "natural" because that is what they imply and if you look back over the responses to your posts you will see that happening time and again. Those people are not picking on you so much as your choice of words and the same goes for me.


You spend a great deal of time picking on what others say but say nothing yourself. Who on earth appointed you god? If just those few words are snipped out, it sounds like I am justifying abuse. But sneakily quoting people out of context does not justify the maltreatment you heap on others. It appears that after flying into mindless rage numerous times you have decided to agree with me. In case you do not get it, I am trying to make general observations on a topic whose general state of affairs is unknown and to do so I made appeals to the reader’s intuitive understanding of what it might mean to have an autistic child in the family. It really amazes me that you took it to mean that I was justifying abuse and it angers me that you told me that I needed therapy to correct my perversions. Even if you wanted to mount a vitriolic attack on someone else, you should understand what they are saying before doing so.



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08 Mar 2007, 8:21 pm

Zeno wrote:
ZanneMarie wrote:
You are right, there is never any excuse to abuse others, but you just did it.



they didn't mean any harm.
i myself was bullied, ridiculed, and made to feel less than human. my own sister tormented me to no end and still finds it humorous that i rocked back and forth (still do but not as pronounced), pretended to be the family dog (which we did not have, but it felt so comfortable to not pretend to be human) and always made fun of me. my father wanted nothing to do with me; he may have been afraid or ashamed of me...i don't know, but i have finally learned to forgive the abusers which has benefited me highly. grudges, hatred, self cherishing takes its toll. it is a necessary part of life. the more sincere and honest we are with ourselves, the stronger we become as a whole being and nothing can shake us when we learn to forgive.

peace