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khaoz
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20 Sep 2014, 7:34 am

The_Walrus wrote:
I'm quite surprised by the number of posters on WP who have military experience or aspire for it. Is a desire to work in the military more common amongst autistic people or is it just my mental biases?

For me it sounds like total anathema.
khaoz wrote:
Other than the war and killing for nothing that has to do with defending ones country, I think military service is a good thing. I think at least 2 years of military service should be mandatory, specifically in the US. The good of instilling structure and discipline outweighs most of the bad. Also, for many who serve, it is the first opportunity to meet and socialize with those of different races, religions and ethnic backgrounds. You learn to get along with people who are different. Everyone should have to experience "boot camp." I do not think there should be exemptions or deferments for anyone based on anything other than severe physical or mental issues. You learn to conquer adversity and understand and accept diversity.

Do you come from a part of the USA where schools don't exist?


Nope. What is your point? Schools do not provide the structure and discipline that the military does. People can go to school while they are in the military. There are no consequences of note for being a professional slacker in school, and going to school does not always make an individual "educated." Everyone should be "tamed" sometime in their life. Being rebellious is pointless combined with ignorance. An ignorant rebel is just a rebel.



The_Walrus
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20 Sep 2014, 7:45 am

khaoz wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I'm quite surprised by the number of posters on WP who have military experience or aspire for it. Is a desire to work in the military more common amongst autistic people or is it just my mental biases?

For me it sounds like total anathema.
khaoz wrote:
Other than the war and killing for nothing that has to do with defending ones country, I think military service is a good thing. I think at least 2 years of military service should be mandatory, specifically in the US. The good of instilling structure and discipline outweighs most of the bad. Also, for many who serve, it is the first opportunity to meet and socialize with those of different races, religions and ethnic backgrounds. You learn to get along with people who are different. Everyone should have to experience "boot camp." I do not think there should be exemptions or deferments for anyone based on anything other than severe physical or mental issues. You learn to conquer adversity and understand and accept diversity.

Do you come from a part of the USA where schools don't exist?


Nope. What is your point? Schools do not provide the structure and discipline that the military does. People can go to school while they are in the military. There are no consequences of note for being a professional slacker in school, and going to school does not always make an individual "educated." Everyone should be "tamed" sometime in their life. Being rebellious is pointless combined with ignorance. An ignorant rebel is just a rebel.

Doesn't school provide the opportunity to socialise with people from different ethnic and religious backgrounds?

Obviously I cannot compare it to the military, but schools certainly provide a degree of structure and discipline, and indeed are successfully teaching these things to the vast majority of people in both our countries.

I would suggest that slacking in school (result: no qualifications) has worse consequences than slacking on military service (result, unless you want to send people to prison or shoot them: dishonourable discharge).



khaoz
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20 Sep 2014, 8:14 am

The_Walrus wrote:
khaoz wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I'm quite surprised by the number of posters on WP who have military experience or aspire for it. Is a desire to work in the military more common amongst autistic people or is it just my mental biases?

For me it sounds like total anathema.
khaoz wrote:
Other than the war and killing for nothing that has to do with defending ones country, I think military service is a good thing. I think at least 2 years of military service should be mandatory, specifically in the US. The good of instilling structure and discipline outweighs most of the bad. Also, for many who serve, it is the first opportunity to meet and socialize with those of different races, religions and ethnic backgrounds. You learn to get along with people who are different. Everyone should have to experience "boot camp." I do not think there should be exemptions or deferments for anyone based on anything other than severe physical or mental issues. You learn to conquer adversity and understand and accept diversity.

Do you come from a part of the USA where schools don't exist?


Nope. What is your point? Schools do not provide the structure and discipline that the military does. People can go to school while they are in the military. There are no consequences of note for being a professional slacker in school, and going to school does not always make an individual "educated." Everyone should be "tamed" sometime in their life. Being rebellious is pointless combined with ignorance. An ignorant rebel is just a rebel.

Doesn't school provide the opportunity to socialise with people from different ethnic and religious backgrounds?

Obviously I cannot compare it to the military, but schools certainly provide a degree of structure and discipline, and indeed are successfully teaching these things to the vast majority of people in both our countries.

I would suggest that slacking in school (result: no qualifications) has worse consequences than slacking on military service (result, unless you want to send people to prison or shoot them: dishonourable discharge).


Maybe schools in your country are different than in mine, but here, IMO, being "qualified" by virtue of a University degree guarantees nothing other than that one has a piece of paper saying you have met certain standards. Many educated people are still idiots in their own profession. Also, people in University can find ways to isolate themselves from others who are different. You cannot do this in the military, because, like it or not, eventually, one is going to find themselves subordinate to someone of another race, or gender, or religion, or national origin, and will have to learn to cope. I don't know exactly where you are from, but I know that some countries are extremely :homogeneous in comparison to the US.



Stannis
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22 Sep 2014, 6:15 pm

khaoz wrote:

Maybe schools in your country are different than in mine, but here, IMO, being "qualified" by virtue of a University degree guarantees nothing other than that one has a piece of paper saying you have met certain standards. Many educated people are still idiots in their own profession. Also, people in University can find ways to isolate themselves from others who are different. You cannot do this in the military, because, like it or not, eventually, one is going to find themselves subordinate to someone of another race, or gender, or religion, or national origin, and will have to learn to cope. I don't know exactly where you are from, but I know that some countries are extremely :homogeneous in comparison to the US.


Compulsory military training is a popular idea on the left (as well as on the right for different reasons), but I don't think many of them have thought it through. Subjecting the population to military training will have the effect of bringing about more submission to illegitimate power structures, and more bullying of young people who don't resemble certain masculine archetypes. Yes, it will inculcate discipline and it could have a positive effect on socialising people together from different backgrounds; but these will come at the expense of bigotry and marginalisation against people who think differently.

I would also be very wary of drilling unquestioning obedience into people. I mean, what, in affect, are they actually being trained to be obedient to? Laissez faire? All authority figures? Some military chain of command? Their employers? Der Fuhrer? Obedience will attach itself to something, and whatever benevolent intentions you may have when you set up the program, you can be sure it'll be attached to something less benevolent when the Republicans get a hold of it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_urWSSZgwU[/youtube]



Last edited by Stannis on 23 Sep 2014, 4:21 am, edited 5 times in total.

WildTaltos
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22 Sep 2014, 9:25 pm

i would die for my people. not my country, but my people. would i do that by joinin a military if we realy had a real military. f-no. maybe the 'ra if they were still anything near as good as they were in the day but not a military. militaries of any modern nation in my opinion are just a tool to fight for milionaires/billionaires interests and helping to perpetuate increasingly totalitarian states while stripping you of your own identity. in other words, they make you a soldier, not a warrior. i consider myself a warrior, someone who fights both for their own pride and the honour of their tribe - not a bald-headed, drilled slave.


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Sweetleaf
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23 Sep 2014, 1:44 am

0_equals_true wrote:
I think that modern warfare is so different from the past, that national service and conscription can be replaced by recruitment in most countries.

I also think is it decision that need to be made by each individual.

US for example, is in a position where obviously there have a huge respect for Vietnam veterans and rightly so, but very little is talk about if it was a political fruitful conflict, and what exactly was the point. It is just politically inconvenient.

Iraq is talked about, but far more people didn't come back from Vietnam, more than ten times in fact.


Yes and many who made it back after not even wanting to go in the first place to add insult to injury just got s**t on further by the government, ending up homeless and with no real help or support. Just another disgusting bit of american history.



Sweetleaf
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23 Sep 2014, 1:51 am

khaoz wrote:
Other than the war and killing for nothing that has to do with defending ones country, I think military service is a good thing. I think at least 2 years of military service should be mandatory, specifically in the US. The good of instilling structure and discipline outweighs most of the bad. Also, for many who serve, it is the first opportunity to meet and socialize with those of different races, religions and ethnic backgrounds. You learn to get along with people who are different. Everyone should have to experience "boot camp." I do not think there should be exemptions or deferments for anyone based on anything other than severe physical or mental issues. You learn to conquer adversity and understand and accept diversity.


If it was mandatory they better include females.....otherwise no fair.

That said I don't think 2 years of military should be mandatory....if war takes place during someones mandatory two years, then they can be sent to it and if they didn't themselves choose to join and take on that risk its a terrible thing to do to someone. Also though from what I understand about a lot of the training there are people that wouldn't be able to cope with that I doubt I could, lol I could only hope to get kicked out before having a mental breakdown of course also have mental issues. Just not sure though that 'Boot Camp' is necessarily a good thing for everyone without physical/mental issues either though....so I think something as serious as the military and training that goes with it needs to be a personal decision regardless of lack of mental/physical ailments.