? for parents - why so many kids?

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{MODERATOR]

Several people on this thread are being rude.

If we can't retain a degree of civility, then I'm locking the thread.

Thanks.

Indeed!!

To explain things a little more to you, there will always be people who have an 'accident', but they are by far the minority. In the uk, (these are the only figures I have as it's where i'm based) we have an unplanned pregnancy rate of one in six pregnancies, or 16.2%. It also does not follow that they would not be happy accidents, with the parents being delighted. My brother is case and point in this, his first child was an accident, his girlfriend was only 19 and was on the pill, and the two of them were staying at my parent's house when she fell pregnant. They moved out, got a house, and are now happily married with three children who are doing brilliantly, and definitely not chaotic or the result of being 'careless and horny!'

Myself, I have three children, aged 8, 6 and 4. All three of mine were carefully planned, I am diabetic as well as having other long term health issues, and I thought long and hard about each of them. My middle child is awaiting diagnosis for AS/Autism (not sure which yet), but he actually functions better with his siblings around than he does without. I am sure that there will be times when they will fight or things are difficult as they get older, but certainly for the moment his having AS would not be a bearing on whether I decide to go on to have a 4th or even 5th child. In fact I hope to do so as I am now with a new partner who himself has AS, and have been for 3.5 years, he is raising my three as a father to them, and we like the idea of having one that is biologically his as well. With his help, we have a very good level of discipline, routine, and general order, which helps us to all cope better, both AS and NT! I have always wanted a large family, and I feel that the support it gives the children to have other close peers to support them, will be a great advantage. J is very close to his siblings, there are only 15m between him and his older sister, and they play well together (well, as long as it is a pre-determined game relating to dinosaurs anyway!) and in school he is better when he has them around as well. He has never really been apart from his siblings, and so they are like an added security to him. His symptoms flare up more when he is out of the house in unfamiliar situations, and at those times, both of his siblings try to help him.

The reasons why I chose to have children, and will choose to have more are that we love them, I love the entire process from conception to birth, to eventually leaving the house to pursue their own futures. I hugely enjoy spending time with my children, and I know that as a mother I do quite a good job, I am there for them, support them emotionally as well as physically, and I do my best to give them an open mind, and to give them as many opportunities in their lives as possible. Financially it isn't always fantastic, but we have enough money to feed and clothe ourselves, have a nice house with plenty of space for the kids and dog to run, and although my health means I can't play football with them etc, I let my partner do the physical stuff and I do the homework, the reading, making crafts, cooking etc. I think as a family we work well together, and I would not only hope to have more children, but would even consider adopting as well to give other children more chances. My AS son's needs at this time do not mean that he doesn't want interaction, or that he gets upset by having other children around. If he gets to the point where he needs space to 'do his own thing' then we will deal with that and find ways to accommodate him and work with him to find solutions, but as I say, at the moment he is lost without his siblings, and I can't see that situation changing any time soon.

I think it could be that your experience as a child and teenager might be the exception rather than the norm. It sounds like things were quite difficult for you in your house, and maybe that has shaped your understandings of what family life is like. In this house there is no slamming doors, everyone helps with chores, we are respectful of eachother, and we enjoy spending time together. The telly is rarely on, though when it is, it is kept at a sensible volume, and the program is chosen between the three children. We work as a team, as I hope that most families do, especially when there are specific needs within the family to be catered for - my son's AS, my health issues etc. I hope that you will understand at some point that not all families are the same, and that with some understanding and a good sense of how to behave, then a large family can be beneficial rather than traumatic.

Kind regards.

Functionally, no, there's nothing left. Look at the life cycle of pretty much any sexual, living organism. Birth. Mating. Reproduction. Death.

As far as anyone knows, animals aren't ambitious or reflective as humans are, which is why we keep reaching for more in life. Children give you a way to live on in this world from beyond the grave. How you influence your children to continue a legacy is important if you want everything you loved to continue past the big sleep. The larger your family, the better that legacy has of a chance of continuing for at least another generation or three. This is potentially world-changing stuff, and I really, REALLY don't like the thought of not living to see my grandchildren grow up. Accepting that this early in my life would mean accepting that my influence won't reach beyond the three children I have. As long as we're ABLE to have children, that window is still open.

Seriously, you stop popping out babies and the only function you're left with is occupying oxygen. Sure, you can still do stuff/look forward to doing stuff as long as you're still drawing oxygen, but developmentally death is the only step left. Nobody wants that staring them in the face! I've got way too much self-actualization left to do before what little mental function I was blessed with starts to go and plaque starts building in my coronary arteries. Making babies, for me at least, makes ME a little less relevant, and those are things I can be content with while I'm waiting to die.

QFfrickinT

I've got four kids, who are no 18, 19, 21 and 25. However, when they were younger, and especially when I had a house full of teenagers, there was a certain amount of chaos at times, but it wasn't bad chaos. It was everybody having fun. I'd have to tell them to turn the music or tv down or be quieter, and they did it. There wasn't much door slamming except for one kid who slammed doors when she was mad but she always got in trouble for that so she stopped. Yes, there were lots of people here because my kids were and are popular and had company a lot because I allowed it, that was fine. Everybody got along and my kids hung out with each other too, and still do so. The only one that noise or chaos ever bothered as me, and I'd put a stop to it right then when it did.

Just because the OP didn't enjoy his childhood and early life doesn't mean that others in big families had the same experience. I was an only child and was catered to and overprotected and lonely and would have given anything to have had the experiences that my kids did. My kids will tell you now that they had a great childhood and they loved living here during their teens.

Yeah but the world wasn't getting overpopulated when the OP was young like it is now. I think that was part of the point he was trying to make in the first post. There was around 3-4 billion less humans in it back then I think.

All those new people must include a lot of loud/bratty kids.

I love children and I am a very family-oriented person. My fiancée and I plan on having between 8 and 12 children, depending on her health. How many children a couple does or doesn't have is not anyone's business but the couple itself. Some couples wish to have a small family, others desire a large family and then there are those who prefer to have no family at all! It's all a valid choice and only belongs to the father and mother and no one else.

It sounds to me like you completely skipped over my attempts to provide meaningful, sociologically/scientifically based answers to your questions.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 22 Sep 2014, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am sorry that you attended a school that did not recognize and respond to your needs.

But do note, that just because something did not work for you, does not mean it is bad by nature.

Some people thrive in large families and noisy environments. Others can't handle it. The trick is to seek out the life and environments that best suit your own needs.

The nature of our world is such that we need people to have different interests, tolerances, and needs. There is no good or bad in it, but it is important to figure out and understand where each unique individual fits in, and do the best by them that can be done.

If my son had had your school experiences, I would be homeschooling him. But he hasn't. Yes, he was in special education for a while, but it acted as a bridge, not something that defined him. He willingly took that path; there is NOTHING we've done in our family with regards to him that did not FULLY involve him, his opinions, and his consent in the decision making process. He is currently in the college application process and his prospects are extremely good for a vibrant and fulfilling career.

I think you have found the wrong scapegoat for your negative experiences. It wasn't the large family or the level of noise, it was a group of people who did not understand how your brain worked and what you, uniquely, needed. Thankfully, that occurs far less often today, as people are becoming educated about ASDs.

The meaning of life is different for different people. One person's idea of "what there is left to do in life" does not have to be yours. I would not take part of a post that covered many other ideas so seriously. This an ASD forum; there are going to be a lot of strong opinions and statements, but none of them are definitively the "one truth." You should know by now that is just the way people around here express themselves.

My son's goal is to create something that will benefit people; make life better. Even if it is just a game that they will play and find pleasure in. Mine has been to make things better in small ways for the corners of the world I encounter. I don't see my having children as being the sole purpose of my life; they are just one of many purposes, even if they did by nature become my main focus the day they were born.

You get to choose what you look forward to in your life, and what you will strive for. The poster wrote about their personal choice; not yours.

You are right, it was not as overpopulated as much as it is today. There actually was talk in the news back in the 70s about the overpopulation issue, I even learned about it in the less-than-the best schools I went to, but that seems to be gone ever since Reagan was elected. But did you hear, there will be 11 billion people by 2100? And yet does anyone care about that their children will have to deal with in their future?

Thank you everyone for the answers you did provide. In the past, the only answer I ever knew was the Catholic/no BC excuse. Actually, there were some families in our neighborhood who were a worse situation by my family. At least my father wasn't mean and my mother did care but was overwhelmed.

Two examples of what I mean are the (not their real names) the Breedlys and the Breedsels. The Breedsels were not Catholic but the couple was divorced and the mother had to raise 9 kids by herself in a house the same size of ours. When you have a large family you do not have money for home maintainence so their house and yard were rather ugly. They also had several bad cars (rather than 1 good one) and there was always chaos at that house. I'm glad I didn't live there.

The Breedlys were devout Catholic and had 7 kids in a smaller 3 bedroom house. Since they had young kids close together, there was ALWAYS a diaper pail. We never went in the house as kids because it smelled too strong of diapers. Mrs. Breedly had so many at one time that she used both cloth diapers AND Pampers soon after they came out. Mr. Breedly was an engineer but I never knew what he did: just that he worked all the time, made decent money, pull into the driveway, yell at the kids, then plop down in the Lazy Boy. Not a friendly character. For a long time, I thought engineers were family men who had a lot of kids. He was active in the church too (a surly usher). I'm glad I had my dad and not Mr. Breedly.

When you have a community with a lot of large families, you are going to have Breed Hills and the BH school district was incredibly crowded back then. Especially in the high school, it can be hard to get into activities because there are so many kids. I think it also makes the education less. Most students from BH did not/do not go to college because their family can't afford it because there were too many kids and so a lot end up joining the service. So you end up sitting on the heating unit, watching a lot of movies because who needs to know all that math/science? Back then, you could also work in a steel mill and make a lot of money and marry your high school sweetheart and have your own large family, but by the time I graduated, we started to lose the steel industry and soon most of the mills shut down. Even back then, I knew there was no way I could handle the service. Because of the sheer number of kids, I could not even go to the vo-tech school program because all the slots were taken with all those kids. Even today it is crowded (we now have fewer buildings) so how is someone with an ASD going to deal with it even today?

In some of the surrounding schools districts that are higher rated, most families have maybe 2-3 kids rather than the 4-5 in Breed Hills. I would think those children will be better prepared for college and life because the resources are not spread so thin.

I just think that kids in large families have less in the way of resources and get the short end of the stick just because there are so many of them and if one of them has an ASD they are going to be lost. So why create a situation like that?

I don't disagree that what you are describing, from that perspective, sounds very unpleasant. What you are describing does not sound like people consciously wanting larger families so much as as religious-based culture that made it virtually mandatory. That is not a true choice, because while some families were I am sure happy with the situation, it is doubtful that all were. So, in a sense you grew up in a microcosm that seemed not dissimilar to other places outside the industrialized world where culturally it is very difficult to choose to have a smaller family or to opt out of reproduction. It has nothing to do with being lazy and horny. it has to do with culture.

In addition, your community due to the economy didn't have the resources to keep classes to a teacher:student ratio that would be appropriate to people on the spectrum. Obviously community resources are a big part of that.

I don't think anyone here is advocating that situation. Families who choose to be large, handle it better than those that have it forced upon them, regardless of temperament. Not all individuals have the issues you have with it. I would not prefer a large family, either, but there are many people who thrive under that type of environment. A lot of it depends on resources.

Edited for punctuation

Calling parents "breeders" is basically hate speech, and makes it very difficult to have a constructive conversation.

I really don't understand the judgement that people have over other people's reproductive choices. I think the interest in over-population is over-stated and generally comes off (whether intended or not) as sanctimonious. I also don't like people who pressure others to have kids when they don't want them. Is it a need for validation that I am not getting?

I think things would be better off for everyone if families did what they liked as far as family size goes and others stayed out of it.

Edited for clarity.

People have children to satisfy, by want of a better word, their own psychological needs. Simple as. Same here. Little guzzle was kind of a 'pressie'. Can't say she was an accident as such... Still. So yes, some poster mentioned it is about passing on your genes. And yes, there comes a point where I though 'what is the friggin point. I'm a funny one because I never really have been tired of life but since my teens I have been tired of living. I mean, it is pointless and boring. But I plod on and then find myself with a bun in the oven at 38. Not as if it couldn't have come earlier given the way I lived my life. Still, leaves me with 3 choices. Keep, give away (and then we think of baby P. and all the others, worldwide, before him that died through the actions of psychologically inept humans in positions of authority and trusted with the safety of children) or terminate. So we chose the first. And we're 11yrs down the line now.

Still. DD's best friend came from a family of 6 when they met. Then, over the years 2 more got added and after nr8 DD's best friends dad went to have a vasectomy behind his missus back Told her he had to sort something at the town hall

I found out cause they were forever argueing and I really thought they would split up and I started to feel uncomfortable with it all. He picked up on that and told me in private. He eventually told her 3 months or so later when it was all safe.

The youngest of the children is now 18 months and just starting to come off breast feeding. Mother is starting to crumble. She is having trouble with tight chest and having all sorts of test. The first one they have already told her the causes are likely psychological as the tests show no abnormalities.

The middle son has ADHD and ASD. He has gotten himself a saturday job recently and he is actually doing better at school than his non ASD brother.


I do, and on a bad day it really gets to me
Best I can do is to prepare her to the best of my abilities.

I live in Europe. The one thing I am brainwashing my kid to do when she grows up is to get the hell out of Europe because in 50 years time it will be a hell hole. She is game and has started exploring the world as her oyster. Her eyes are on Malta at the moment
Truth is that all that a unified Europe has led to is that every Tom Dick and Harry wants to be part of it.

Personally I am not too bothered at the moment though. We live between the cows and the corn (that they live off in winter) but over the years I see more land disappearing and the queues getting bigger if we go on days out. Housing developments look like matchboxes compared to flats built in the seventies.
I don't have background traffic noises although I do have a road in front of the house and am not totally traffic free.
I'm not sanctimonious. Just realistic.
My DD is growing up in a society so rotten to the core it really saddens me to the core.