Do you believe there are Extraterrestrial beings ?

Page 12 of 13 [ 198 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next

auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 98,397
Location: the island of defective toy santas

04 Nov 2014, 12:19 am

I can see it now, cats frolicking in 0-G and pooping/peeing all over the place. the aliens might well say to hell with us and drop us off back where we came from.



anthropic_principle
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 300

04 Nov 2014, 1:21 am

olympiadis wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

An abduction and anal probing is an extraordinary claim.

However, due to our improved knowledge base, the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence is not really an extraordinary claim anymore.

Perhaps people confuse this.

If the aliens take me with them, then I will insist on them also taking all the stray/homeless cats too. They can play with holographic toys and dart about in zero-G.


that's not to say less extraordinary claims require no evidence at all..



anthropic_principle
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 300

04 Nov 2014, 1:32 am

cyberdad wrote:
anthropic_principle wrote:
i was asking how scientists thinking there is other life in the multiverse (which is kind of a given) is relevant since even the multiverse itself cannot be proven (at least yet), .


This seems to be the second most oft quoted mantra from the skeptics handbook.....
(the first being show me the evidence)

The question of relevancy is highly subjective. If you are referring to Maslow's hierarchy of needs then yes, food, shelter etc is going to be far more important than the existence of little grey aliens...but given most of us have that bit covered we have some time to kill... :wink:


that's not what i meant at all, i'm all for hypothesizing, but i'm just saying citing proposed authority seeing life being probable in the context of an unproven and most likely unprovable hypothesis (multiverse) doesn't do much to 'prove' there's other intelligent life which is kind of what the guy who i was quoting was quoting was saying he'd need.
personally I think there is other intelligent life in our own universe but at a rate much lower than conventional opinion, I'd put it at less than 1 civilization per galaxy, maybe even much so.
(sry for double post but i saw someone else do it here so i assume it's not a big deal)



B19
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

04 Nov 2014, 1:56 am

The Housecat's captive is definitely not a he.



wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 7:31 am

anthropic_principle wrote:
personally I think there is other intelligent life in our own universe but at a rate much lower than conventional opinion, I'd put it at less than 1 civilization per galaxy, maybe even much so.

If there is one civilized planet per galaxy there is at least 100,000,000,000 civilized planets!


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 7:32 am

Imagine that each penny is a civilized planet. That pile will look like,
http://www.kokogiak.com/megapenny/eleven.asp


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 7:58 am

Suppose that only one galaxy per 100 has a civilized planet. In other words a billion civilized planets!
http://www.kokogiak.com/megapenny/nine.asp


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


anthropic_principle
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 300

04 Nov 2014, 8:03 am

wittgenstein wrote:
Suppose that only one galaxy per 100 has a civilized planet. In other words a billion civilized planets!
http://www.kokogiak.com/megapenny/nine.asp


sure, and that's just the observable universe.
the problem is the hope of ever communicating with or discovering one becomes infinitesimally small.



wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 8:19 am

It is true that I do not have any physical evidence of extraterrestrials. * However, the math says that they are overwhelmingly likely. Similarly, I have no evidence that there is not a penny exactly on the North Pole. However, the math tells me that it is overwhelmingly likely that there is no penny there.
* I do not believe they have visited us. The distances are too great.


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 8:27 am

Science is not about certainty. It is about degrees (probability ) of skepticism. For example, I am not 100% certain that the earth goes around the sun. I am "only" 99.9999999999% certain.
By comparison I am only.00000001% sure that Elvis is still alive. As a scientist I cannot rule out the possibility that Elvis is still alive. Tho being 99.9999999% sure that he is not alive is overwhelmingly close to certainty.


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,094
Location: temperate zone

04 Nov 2014, 9:01 am

anthropic_principle wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
Suppose that only one galaxy per 100 has a civilized planet. In other words a billion civilized planets!
http://www.kokogiak.com/megapenny/nine.asp


sure, and that's just the observable universe.
the problem is the hope of ever communicating with or discovering one becomes infinitesimally small.


Yes. If it were only on civilization per galaxy that would mean the closet to us would be in the Andromeda Galaxy two million light years away.

Even if these Andromedans broke the light barrier (itsself unlikely) they would never be able to drop in on us, nor even phone us.



Toy_Soldier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,370

04 Nov 2014, 9:25 am

wittgenstein wrote:
Science is not about certainty. It is about degrees (probability ) of skepticism. For example, I am not 100% certain that the earth goes around the sun. I am "only" 99.9999999999% certain.
By comparison I am only.00000001% sure that Elvis is still alive. As a scientist I cannot rule out the possibility that Elvis is still alive. Tho being 99.9999999% sure that he is not alive is overwhelmingly close to certainty.


There might be a reason Elvis always seemed bigger then life... :idea:

Image



Toy_Soldier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,370

04 Nov 2014, 9:31 am

When looking at the math, it seems pretty certain that there is life elsewhere.

And math is one of the main things that makes a civilization and then a potential space traveler or at least communicator. (On Mars... Hello, can you here me now? :lol:)

So its also reasonably certain that anyone trying to reach or contact us (or anyone for that matter) has math.

Then why are we sending out radio signals and space junk with bad CDs on them? We should be transmitting 2 + 2 = 4 and sending out flash cards.



wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 1:43 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Yes. If it were only on civilization per galaxy that would mean the closet to us would be in the Andromeda Galaxy two million light years away.

Even if these Andromedans broke the light barrier (itsself unlikely) they would never be able to drop in on us, nor even phone us.

Agreed. That is what I said 5 posts ago. It is overwhelmingly likely that extraterrestrials exist but the distances are too great for them to visit us.
I disagree with Hawking. * It is silly to believe that if contacted they will take our stuff and turn us into slaves and/or eat us. That would be like us taking over an ant colony, eating the ants and taking their stuff.
We are like ants to them. They do not love us. They do not hate us. We are so inferior and boring to them that they can't help but ignore us.


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

04 Nov 2014, 2:29 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
Yes. If it were only on civiliation per galaxy that would mean the closet to us would be in the Andromeda Galaxy two million light years away.
Even if these Andromedans broke the light barrier (itsself unlikely) they would never be able to drop in on us, nor even phone us.


The nature of technology is exponential.
To apply our own conceptual, technological, and engineering limitations to an advanced race is even more absurd than the conclusion that they do not exist.



wittgenstein
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,512
Location: Trapped inside a hominid skull

04 Nov 2014, 4:29 pm

I strongly agree!
Imagine that our current knowledge is one grain of rice.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_and_chessboard_problem
For us to understand them is like a rhinoceros understanding quantum mechanics! That is why I said "they" ignore us, we are too boring!


_________________
YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM