Being upset by things that aren't black/white?

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calstar2
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23 Oct 2014, 1:31 am

This is something that doesn't sound like it would be that impacting in my life, but it has led to many late night hysterics due to frustration and it prevents me from being able to discuss a lot of things at an intellectual level. If I'm unable to put opinions or whatever else into separate boxes of right and wrong, then I experience great confusion. Confusion to the point where nothing makes sense for me anymore and I just stop processing information. This tends to happen with political, ethical, and moral issues. I believe in absolute morality because I have to believe in absolute morality. It's the only way that I'm able to make sense of myself and the world. So when discussing these kinds of things, there tends to be a lot of topics brought up that lead to cognitive dissonance.

Does anybody else have similar issues?



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23 Oct 2014, 1:51 am

calstar2 wrote:
This is something that doesn't sound like it would be that impacting in my life, but it has led to many late night hysterics due to frustration and it prevents me from being able to discuss a lot of things at an intellectual level. If I'm unable to put opinions or whatever else into separate boxes of right and wrong, then I experience great confusion. Confusion to the point where nothing makes sense for me anymore and I just stop processing information. This tends to happen with political, ethical, and moral issues. I believe in absolute morality because I have to believe in absolute morality. It's the only way that I'm able to make sense of myself and the world. So when discussing these kinds of things, there tends to be a lot of topics brought up that lead to cognitive dissonance.

Does anybody else have similar issues?



this is our conscious thoughts trying to reproduce what goes on in the subconscious of NTs.
We construct binary based logical models.

In conscious thought, models that are extremely complex and use conceptual values can easily cause mental overload, and often create logical conflicts/inconsistencies.

The only way I know how to work through this type of situation is to start removing conceptual layers of the subject matter.



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23 Oct 2014, 1:57 am

calstar2 wrote:
This is something that doesn't sound like it would be that impacting in my life, but it has led to many late night hysterics due to frustration and it prevents me from being able to discuss a lot of things at an intellectual level. If I'm unable to put opinions or whatever else into separate boxes of right and wrong, then I experience great confusion. Confusion to the point where nothing makes sense for me anymore and I just stop processing information. This tends to happen with political, ethical, and moral issues. I believe in absolute morality because I have to believe in absolute morality. It's the only way that I'm able to make sense of myself and the world. So when discussing these kinds of things, there tends to be a lot of topics brought up that lead to cognitive dissonance.

Does anybody else have similar issues?


No. When I was younger, my thinking was extremely Black and white but I never had hysterics. I was just right and that's all there was to it.

I still remember the feeling of always being right, having an answer for everything and knowing everything.

My Mother used to tell me, the world is not black and white - that there are 'shades of gray' and she was right.

Since maturing, I can see the 'gray' (besides that which is in my hair)

There is no such thing as right and wrong, good and bad. They're are personal judgments (labels) individuals chose to label events etc. One person might say it's a good sunny day whereas others might say is a bad hot day. No right or wrong. Just labels. The day is neither good or bad. It just is! You decide if it's good or bad but that doesn't change the way the day is.


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Last edited by ImAnAspie on 23 Oct 2014, 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Oct 2014, 1:59 am

I don't have that exact issue, but I do have a weird issue that definitely impacts my life. My brain often makes up a bunch of weird categories, stereotypes and rules that aren't logical at all. Some of these are stereotypes created by society and some are purely created by my messed up brain.

All those weird rules affect the way I behave. An example of this is lesbians. In my brain lesbians are either butch and/or have no personality. The logical part of me knows that's not necessarily true, but it still affects the way I behave and my brain functions. In my brain people who dress and behave a certain way have a "colourful" personality. When I saw some self-identified lesbians with a colourful personality I was shocked.


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23 Oct 2014, 3:37 am

I was happy to quit English Literature at school after the mandatory GCSE, not just because I dislike fiction, but also because the teacher said that "there is no right or wrong".

I love maths and science, because the large majority of problems in those subjects yield black and white answers. Yes or no. Right or wrong.

I don't like grey areas.


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23 Oct 2014, 3:45 am

ImAnAspie wrote:
No. When I was younger, my thinking was extremely Black and white but I never had hysterics. I was just right and that's all there was to it.

I still remember the feeling of always being right, having an answer for everything and knowing everything.

My Mother used to tell me, the world is not black and white - that there are 'shades of gray' and she was right.

Since maturing, I can see the 'gray' (besides that which is in my hair)

Exactly the same holds true for me. Since my early 20's I have started seeing more and more shades of grey, and that's a very good thing.


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calstar2
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23 Oct 2014, 4:07 am

Skilpadde wrote:
ImAnAspie wrote:
No. When I was younger, my thinking was extremely Black and white but I never had hysterics. I was just right and that's all there was to it.

Exactly the same holds true for me. Since my early 20's I have started seeing more and more shades of grey, and that's a very good thing.


I was also this way as a child, but I now acknowledge that there is supposedly a grey area, but I'm still unable to comprehend it. In a lot of ways, I'm much worse when it comes to being too black and white about things now than when I was as a child.



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23 Oct 2014, 5:29 am

calstar2 wrote:
Skilpadde wrote:
ImAnAspie wrote:
No. When I was younger, my thinking was extremely Black and white but I never had hysterics. I was just right and that's all there was to it.

Exactly the same holds true for me. Since my early 20's I have started seeing more and more shades of grey, and that's a very good thing.


I was also this way as a child, but I now acknowledge that there is supposedly a grey area, but I'm still unable to comprehend it. In a lot of ways, I'm much worse when it comes to being too black and white about things now than when I was as a child.


I do still sometimes have "black 'n' white" attacks but I'm now able to consider the matter at hand and "see" that I may not have been right in my original opinion/stance on the topic. I do still seem to have problems seeing things from other people's perspectives.


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23 Oct 2014, 10:37 am

This is such an interesting topic to me, since even from an NT perspective, seeing more than one or two sides of an issue or situation can be hard. It's something that most people have to grow into, though some people never get it or don't want to, which can lead to big problems, obviously.

I think that the survival/competitive mindset that sometimes fostered our ancestors' evolution pushed them to see things simply: either I eat or you do, if you survive this battle then I likely won't, etc. The cooperative aspect that fostered their evolution is more complicated by far; even when people DO see another point of view, they don't always agree on what to do about it, especially when more than one or two people's needs, obligations, wants, motives, and opinions are involved.

I think that being able to organize things into "this or that" can be comforting in such an elaborate universe, whether you're on the spectrum or not. Truly! Internal and external conflicts about how to solve a problem or what may be right or wrong can keep an NT up at night with a mind filled with conflict, guilt, and/or worry. I don't blame you for feeling distressed about it, but I hope you're able to find some comfort.



Last edited by KimD on 23 Oct 2014, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Oct 2014, 10:56 am

I'm the opposite. I *have* to see all the sides of a topic and I can't handle things that are straight up black/white because there has to be more to it. I over analyze things all the time and I get yelled at because I don't usually pick sides because there usually aren't any "right" sides or "bad" sides, just people with differing opinions fighting over their perceived truths.
Dad always said there were at least three sides to every story; Her side, His side, and the Truth.


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olympiadis
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23 Oct 2014, 11:19 am

I want to point out here that right/wrong are subjective conceptual labels, and not concrete themselves, but they IN NO WAY prevent logical models from being solid when tested by more real criteria.


It seems that these things are being thought of as mutually exclusive. Is that the case?
I do not think of them in that way.

Conceptual labels require conditionals that reach back to more concrete terms.
For example:
If "this" and "this" is true, then "that" must be right.

"That" cannot always be right, because there is no concrete right.
However conditionals can define something as right within a conceptual structure.



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23 Oct 2014, 11:58 am

This is why people hated Jesus Christ. He said, "Even if a man looks lustfully at a woman, he has committed adultery with her in his heart." Jesus never talked about any grey areas when it came to faith and morality. Accept yourself for who you are. There are not many people like this. Glad you're here!! :)



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23 Oct 2014, 4:26 pm

I certainly have this autistic trait. Knowing I have this issue sometime, I overcompensate and make an issue "grey' when it is really is not.


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24 Oct 2014, 10:01 am

calstar2 wrote:
Skilpadde wrote:
ImAnAspie wrote:
No. When I was younger, my thinking was extremely Black and white but I never had hysterics. I was just right and that's all there was to it.

Exactly the same holds true for me. Since my early 20's I have started seeing more and more shades of grey, and that's a very good thing.


I was also this way as a child, but I now acknowledge that there is supposedly a grey area, but I'm still unable to comprehend it. In a lot of ways, I'm much worse when it comes to being too black and white about things now than when I was as a child.

Do you mean that you are generally worse now? Or simply that there are issues you now have views on that you aren't able or willing to see in more than one way?
I think a lot of people have at least one issue they see pretty black and white, and some are extremely black and white (think of the fight for gender equality or the LGB cause versus traditional values and religious views, for instance).

For me, endangered species really trigger B/W thinking, as do cruelty to animals.
When I was younger I was adamant that environmentally unfriendly companies should be shut down always, and the hell with anyone who was unemployed as a result. Now I realize that both in terms of workers and companies delivering produce important to society at large, we need better solutions. (The thought of rivers etc being polluted and wildlife suffering for it still tears me apart though. It makes me feel sick.)


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24 Oct 2014, 1:43 pm

I need instructions very, very specifically to understand some basic stuff.


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25 Oct 2014, 6:23 am

Skilpadde wrote:
I think a lot of people have at least one issue they see pretty black and white, and some are extremely black and white (think of the fight for gender equality or the LGB cause versus traditional values and religious views, for instance).

For me, endangered species really trigger B/W thinking, as do cruelty to animals.

When I was younger I was adamant that environmentally unfriendly companies should be shut down always, and the hell with anyone who was unemployed as a result. Now I realize that both in terms of workers and companies delivering produce important to society at large, we need better solutions. (The thought of rivers etc being polluted and wildlife suffering for it still tears me apart though. It makes me feel sick.)


Reallly good point, and well put.



Last edited by KimD on 25 Oct 2014, 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.