What if we *didn't* have trouble getting dates in early yrs?

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Aspie1
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25 Oct 2014, 11:57 am

The title should say "early teen years", but there's that stupid 60-character limit! Mods, can we increase it, please? To 100, at least.

This thread will focus more on aspie men, because men are usually the ones being rejected. Anyway, I'm sure all aspies had problems getting dates early in life. By "early in life", I mean early teen years, when puberty kicks in. That's when most NTs have their first date, first slow dance (with full-body contact), first kiss on the mouth, etc. Some of the alpha males even lose their virginity at that age, but that's just too damn early. Having these things happen early in life "normalizes" them; it makes them a part of your life, rather than something elusive and extraordinary, and prevents them from becoming a big deal.

Not so with aspies. I had my first kiss at age 20, and based on was I read on the Love and Dating forum, I was one of the luckier ones. Before then, I couldn't get a simple "dinner and a movie" date if my life depended on it. As a result, these things became a huge deal in my mind, rather than a fun diversion. On top of that, having had zero learning opportunities. So picked up many Disney-ish, misconstrued, or downright false ideas about romantic relationships from teenage sitcoms, some of them quite preachy and puritanical. So no wonder I kept failing miserably over and over and over. Plus, not having a car in high school and part of college did me in even further.

At age 22, I lost my virginity to an escort, and at age 23, had my first sexual relationship. But even then, it wasn't until 28 that I learned to get dates with some semblance of regularity. I now learned to make women feel comfortable in my presence. I get a new date about once a month, which pretty damn often compared to ten years ago, and have no second thoughts about turning down women who I don't find attractive or compatible. (If I didn't, I'd date even more of then, but why bother.) Still, having learned to do that at age 31 just feels like "too little, too late". Even though I'm caught up skill-wise for the most part, I feel like I'm behind on society's dating learning curve by at least 10 years. NT guys get dates like I do now at 16, not at 31.

So this brings me to my question: What if we *didn't* have trouble finding dates in early years? (with all other symptoms still being there) How would that affect us psychologically? How would our lives be different? Discuss!



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25 Oct 2014, 3:20 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
The title should say "early teen years", but there's that stupid 60-character limit! Mods, can we increase it, please? To 100, at least.

This thread will focus more on aspie men, because men are usually the ones being rejected. Anyway, I'm sure all aspies had problems getting dates early in life. By "early in life", I mean early teen years, when puberty kicks in. That's when most NTs have their first date, first slow dance (with full-body contact), first kiss on the mouth, etc. Some of the alpha males even lose their virginity at that age, but that's just too damn early. Having these things happen early in life "normalizes" them; it makes them a part of your life, rather than something elusive and extraordinary, and prevents them from becoming a big deal.

Not so with aspies. I had my first kiss at age 20, and based on was I read on the Love and Dating forum, I was one of the luckier ones. Before then, I couldn't get a simple "dinner and a movie" date if my life depended on it. As a result, these things became a huge deal in my mind, rather than a fun diversion. On top of that, having had zero learning opportunities. So picked up many Disney-ish, misconstrued, or downright false ideas about romantic relationships from teenage sitcoms, some of them quite preachy and puritanical. So no wonder I kept failing miserably over and over and over. Plus, not having a car in high school and part of college did me in even further.

At age 22, I lost my virginity to an escort, and at age 23, had my first sexual relationship. But even then, it wasn't until 28 that I learned to get dates with some semblance of regularity. I now learned to make women feel comfortable in my presence. I get a new date about once a month, which pretty damn often compared to ten years ago, and have no second thoughts about turning down women who I don't find attractive or compatible. (If I didn't, I'd date even more of then, but why bother.) Still, having learned to do that at age 31 just feels like "too little, too late". Even though I'm caught up skill-wise for the most part, I feel like I'm behind on society's dating learning curve by at least 10 years. NT guys get dates like I do now at 16, not at 31.

So this brings me to my question: What if we *didn't* have trouble finding dates in early years? (with all other symptoms still being there) How would that affect us psychologically? How would our lives be different? Discuss!


There are several reasons why I never dated, which I have said in several different threads.

First, I never really had any serious interest in women, mostly by choice. After the experiences with bringing a girl home to face my parents, only to have my parents savage myself and my date, you'd understand why.

Second, I've had several traumatic experiences with girl fans in the town I grew up in. The gangs were made up of sisters in the same family. One gang would beat the living daylights out of me anytime they would see me out by myself, another gang attempted to get their hands down my pants.

Third, there was no real intimacy shown in the family. The only time mom or dad got up close and personal with me, or any of my brothers, was to administer corporal punishment for whatever infraction, no matter how small, they discovered. I could pull a Gary Crosby, and make myself into another Daddy Dearest case, but I'd be lying if I were to pull that stunt. Mom and Dad were of the opinion, Spare the rod and spoil the child. They were also of the opinion, even if proven innocent, you're still guilty.

Finally, I was born without a full set of equipment, if you get that I mean. Hormonally, I don't have much testosterone. And before anyone says, ask your doctor about hormonal treatments, no way! I've heard too many bad things about these treatments.



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25 Oct 2014, 3:49 pm

In my own experience, my girl troubles were mostly in my own head. The thing with me was that girls and romantic relationships were my special interest. I obsessed over it and made up my mind I would NEVER be without a girlfriend. My mom was a regular subscriber to Redbook, which I was always sneaking and reading. And I don't just mean read, I mean I made women's mags my textbooks. Mom also had these torrid dime store novels, which, again, became my own personal Lord of the Rings.

It upset me greatly that I didn't have the success my NT schoolmates had. But just by sheer determination I did have SOME success, so I was having some good makeout sessions with girls by the time I was 12, which was actually better than what some of my NT peers only bragged about by that time.

I knew I wasn't ready for sex, so I imagine half of them were sexually active in high school whereas I didn't have sex until I was 19. But it wasn't for lack of opportunity! ;)

Looking back, though, all of that was something I would have done better without. I usually advise against dating/relationships early on because you really do have plenty of time after college to make up for whatever you think you're missing. These relationships are strongly dramatic and overemotional when you're young, and I think we'd be better off not putting ourselves through that abuse



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25 Oct 2014, 4:12 pm

It wouldn't of made a difference to me because I had NO desire for a relationship in my teens due to all my other issues. I just wanted & needed to be left alone to do my own things to wind down from school & $hit with my parents on my back.


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25 Oct 2014, 4:23 pm

Well, I probably wouldn't be in my current position of feeling like less than a person. I actually tried with an escort a couple years ago, but I knew she didn't want me and I couldn't do it. At this point, suicide is becoming pretty attractive.


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25 Oct 2014, 4:24 pm

I wonder if there is any aspie who got the experiences to tell us how he/she is now. Late/impaired relationship development is an aspie trait and most if not all of us share it. And it was not a fate or anything that caused us so - it was just our aspieness.

I am a nice looking girl and there was a lot of boys attracted to me. But my personality, weirdness and way of thinking was making me difficult to deal with. Till age 19 I didn't even consider being in a relationship and was thinking all the guys are just making fun of me just like boys in elementary school did. Later on the understanding and need of relationship appeared but I still don't know how to deal with it because relationships are really complicated. I am 25 now and I still haven't kissed anyone. Despite "dating" 2 boys and being in love with a girl I still have the love experience of a 12 year old. The emotional level of relationship is out of my understanding. I can have fun with someone and I can imagine kissing or having sex with them but I have no idea how to get the "mood" and when a boy tries to make the "mood" I only feel confused and childish. How are candles and chocolates related to a kiss? I wish boys could just do it without such false manipulations so I can get over it. Apparently I will have to force myself to do it one day because boys are just as chickened out as I am. That's why they try to use some "magic" tricks that trigger the mood. Unfortunately I don't feel the romantic mood that is supposed to make people kiss without being scared.

Perhaps I just have to get one of the "alpha males" interested in me and teach me that kissing and stuffs are nothing to be scared of so I can do it when I get into real relationship. Unfortunately "alpha males" are not my type and honestly - getting a "one night stand" is against my rules. Plus - I don't know how to deal with it either. :lol:



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25 Oct 2014, 4:30 pm

The difference would be that we'd have dated several people as youngsters & more of us would be in long term relationships now vs. starting the dating process in our 30's.

I'm 32 and never really dated w/ the exception of a few week "relationship" when I was ~18 & some FWB type relationships over the years. Instead, I've skipped the dating part almost entirely and just had an active sex life. For many, that may even sound ideal.. :lol: but it's not, not for me anyways. At this stage of the game I am looking to date and eventually meet someone to be with long term.

Also worth noting is that I'm gay, soooo, even without AS it's typically a bit of a different process since homosexuality isn't quite a societal norm yet.. forcing a lot of us to remain closeted and not have teenaged relationships if we wanted them. But times are changing quite quickly and I can foresee current and future generations of homos having a much easier go of things because it'll be ok to be gay.


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25 Oct 2014, 6:01 pm

There are two main ways it affects you in my opinion. The first is that if you have good success with dating/relationships early on, then it gives you positive reinforcement, which leads to confidence, which leads to more success in dating/relationships. Even if you later fall on hard times, you can look back and say "well, I had those two relationships before, so I can do it again when I find the right person". Also, you can use those experiences as learning experiences, both to learn more about the kind of person you are interested in, and how to be a better person yourself in a relationship. For those of us who started dating in our mid/late 20s (or even later), I think most of us have no idea what we really want in a romantic partner, and have no idea what a relationship is like, or even how to act in one (or how to go about finding one for that matter).

The second is simply that it gives you experience. I'm getting close to 30, and I know full well that my inexperience is unattractive, which is why I try my best to mask it. When you are young, it is normal, and even considered somewhat "cute", to fumble through all of the difficult parts of dating like asking someone out, kissing, holding hands, etc. As you get older, people expect you to know how to do those things, and to be perfectly comfortable doing them. Not only that, but many older people really don't want to be your first "anything", and don't want to feel like they have to teach you anything romance-wise. I haven't gotten far enough along with anyone where this has come up, but one major fear that I have is that when I do finally find a relationship, the person will be turned off or scared away when the topic of my inexperience comes up.



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25 Oct 2014, 7:15 pm

Quote:
Mods, can we increase it, please?


That isn't something we have control over, sorry. Ask Alex.


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25 Oct 2014, 10:21 pm

The early years? Where you unwanted in those years OP? Do you blame it on your own lack of skill at the time or the callousness of teenage girls? As for myself, I don't blame it girls, I blame it squarely on my own monumental stupidity. It wasn't them, it was me. It was my fault. Self-saboteur extarordinaire, That's me. I've made self-sabotage into a fine art form, both in my early teen years and in recent times.

Here is my story. It started when I was 13. Girls asked me out. Not ugly ones either, nice ones. Girls asked me out and I refused, I rejected them. Take a second to let the sheer stupidity of sink in. Maybe they saw something in me. What kind of red blooded boy would refuse a date from a pretty girl? A scared one. All that dating stuff gave me the heebie-jeebies. It was too scary.

Not half as scary as having to do all the asking yourself I now realise.

Some of them asked me out, some of the others flirted with me in ways I couldn't yet recognise, Actually their was this one girl, I'd known her since we were 5 and now she was the prettiest girl in grade 8. Not stuck up either, she had a calm, gentle, intelligent personality. She kept on flirting with me for a couple of years before she gave up in frustration. I couldn't recognise it. I know guys here on L&D complain about girls friendzoning them, well in my ignorance I friendzoned a girl. Also let me reiterate that she was the prettiest girl in my grade, something which at time didn't seem like a big deal to me.

I thought since I wasn't ?ready? yet, I could just wait 'till I was a bit older and then when I was ready, I could wait for some girl to ask me out and... Pretty stupid eh? I guess those girls asking me out conditioned me into thinking that was the normal social convention. I don't know what they saw in me. But at a slightly older age that wasn't the normal social convention. By senior high school they stopped doing that, I think I gained a bad rep. Some of them mocked me by pretending to be interested and then I couldn't tell the difference.

Anyway, there is no ?ready?. You dive in blindly and get ready from experience.

So for a few years, nothing, I graduated high school and went on to my ?retirement?. I was only interested in buying PC games, downloading emulators and watching Star Trek. I calmly accepted that I would always be single and didn't mind yet. The envy hadn't started yet.

When I was 18, my father said I should go on a dating site, I refused. That sounded even scarier. It's a shame because after a few years on these dating sites I think the younger men have some advantages. They don't have to look at profiles of girls saying ?seeking men aged 18-24?. The older women (my age) have higher expectations. They want a professional man, or at least one as professional as they are. If I was college age I wouldn't be expected to be a college graduate yet... or even better when I was rejecting those girls in junior high, we were all equal then, there were no better or worse jobs because we didn't have jobs, there were people with degrees or without, our level of education was equal, no one cared about other people's grades, we all had the same amount of money (virtually none) and we all came from families that had the same amount of money due to living in a neighbourhood with a homogenised income demographic.

When I was 20 someone persuaded me to go to community college. That lasted one semester, I got overwhelmed by school work and quit after the semester even though I'd passed all my subjects (another example of self-sabotage, most people at least only drop out if they're failing). Anyway, there was this girl I hang out a lot there. She seemed to like me. She was a real geek girl, talked about Torchwood a lot.

I liked her too, I was starting to consider her as a potential relationship. I kept on procrastinating asking her out because I was nervous (?what if she gets offended? I thought). After hanging out and procrastinating for a weeks some other guy made an advance at her, she rejected him and said she didn't want a boyfriend. I took her literally at her word. But maybe she just didn't like him. Or maybe she was waiting for me to ask her out, not some other guy she barely knew. Another score for self sabotage.

There have been a couple of times (age 21) and (age 26) when I was with a girl who I now think wanted to have sex then and there but I either couldn't recognise or did but wasn't ?certain?. I remember sitting with this girl on her couch at age 26 who kept on poking me in the stomach. Is that flirting? She either wanted to do it or at least initiate a make out session. I suspected as such but in my mind I wasn't certain. Somehow in my paranoia I thought if I pulled the wrong move she'd scream rape. I think in her mind she'd already expressed her consent nonverbally. She dumped me about five minutes later without explaining why. Perhaps in her mind the reason was too obvious to require an explaination. Anyway, now you know why I have trouble getting past the ?touch barrier?. My fear of intimacy largely stems from my (probably imaginary) fear of what will happen if I get it wrong. Remember NTs have their own nonverbal language they use to consent or decline and since I can't hear it I sit there in deafness.

When I was about 23 (and a half) I decided, maybe I should actually try to get a date (mostly due to people teasing me about being a virgin). So I proceeded the only way I knew how, using the internet. So I wasted about 18 months using the wrong site. Eharmony. That site is completely crap. Casanova couldn't get a date on that site. It was the only dating site I was aware of at the time due to their heavy advertising campaign (general rule for ads, the products with the most ads are the ones that need the most help, the products with no ads can sell by reputation alone). They're a subscription site, so I subscribed. The girls didn't. With a free account you can see and be seen but you can't message. I messaged, they were unable if not unwilling to reciprocate. The funny thing is, for the first few months I didn't mind when they didn't return my messages. I took messaging them as a necessary burden and took their silence as a relief. That didn't last. I'm no longer relieved when they don't message back.

So at 25 I found a more sensible dating site, Oasis. I got actual dates out of that one. But having discovered a way to get dates at the ripe old age of 25, it could take me another ten years to figure out how to get to the next level. I'm behind but I can't catch up if I keep on going slower than everyone else. For reasons described above my dates consider me to be a cold fish, even when all signs point to yes I can't turn off my irrational fears. I feel like I'm in chains. The extraverted girls go home dissapointed and the introverted ones? Well it's like the blind leading the blind (is that why oppisites attract?)

Maybe in future instead of pretending to be NT (and failing) I should disclose my AS. I should tell her I can't read body language and anything she wants to tell me, she should tell me verbally. Is that such a bad idea?

Maybe sooner or later I'll get better at dating. And maybe soon I'll be able to overcome that other self-sabotage in my life, the one that prevented me from getting a degree and a career at an earlier age. Maybe I'll have a better future but... My past failures sour my future. I may have a bright future or I may not (who can say?) but even if I am to have the brightest future I still feel like it would be tainted by my past failures. Even the best future would be diminished by my past. Even if I had a perfect future, I couldn't have a perfect life because some of it has already passed. I don't want a perfectly good life, I just want to have had a perfectly normal life yet how can I hope for a better past?

Not that I'm saying I'll have a perfect future

I like being weird in the cultural sense but not in the biographical sense. Even if I do it with ten thousand girls in future, I still won't be able to say I lost it any earlier than 27. That will forever be a blot on my life story. One that can never be removed. I don't really want to do it with ten thousand girls, I'd much rather to spend my life with just one.
[quote=?Aspie1?]I feel like I'm behind on society's dating learning curve by at least 10 years. NT guys get dates like I do now at 16, not at 31.[/quote]
That sums it up for me. I feel like crap about those wasted years as well. I could've have had a normal adolescence and I gave it up for no good reason. I could've had an adolescence with dating and girls and stuff. The girls were really into me and I gave that up. I could've had an adolescence where I actually cared about my grades instead of one where I thought my grades didn't matter because I had a harebrained scheme to retire after high school (which I did for a few years but it turned out to be a bad idea). I could've had a young adulthood spent in uni, with more girls. I could've spent the years from 18 to 22 learning amazing things both in class and out in the campus, both academic and social but instead I spent those years sitting in a darkened room, getting a cathode ray tan as I played on a super nintendo emulator.

Now I see young couples walking down the street, younger than me. I can never have that. I see people graduate and go on to professional careers, again, younger than me. No matter what I have in the future I can never have a normal past. I was a failure as a teen and I now make a mediochre adult but I think with my current level of knowladge and maturity, I might now make a passable teen. If I could go to bed tonight and wake up ten or so years ago with my present day mind and memories I might do OK. I might not take girls and grades for granted. I feel like I'm now more mature than I was... but that just means I'm now as mature as I should've been at an earlier age.

No matter what age I am, I'm always a few years behind. I'm sure I'm not the only one here with that problem.

Kiriae wrote:
I am a nice looking girl and there was a lot of boys attracted to me. But my personality, weirdness and way of thinking was making me difficult to deal with. Till age 19 I didn't even consider being in a relationship and was thinking all the guys are just making fun of me just like boys in elementary school did. Later on the understanding and need of relationship appeared but I still don't know how to deal with it because relationships are really complicated. I am 25 now and I still haven't kissed anyone.

Now you see guys, that proves dating isn't automatically easy for girls so stop saying girls have it easy, they have challenges in life too.
[quote=?Stargazer43?]The second is simply that it gives you experience. I'm getting close to 30, and I know full well that my inexperience is unattractive, which is why I try my best to mask it.[/quote]
I'm not sure masking it is a good idea. I've tried masking it and failed at it. What's the point of pretending to be normal when I don't appear normal whether I try to or not? I've pretended to be normal and then had girls think I disliked them when I didn't because I sent the wrong signals... yet if I'd told them I can't send or read signals then perhaps they wouldn't have thought that. Maybe I should start being more honest with girls. I've tried one approach, time to try another.
Stargazer43 wrote:
For those of us who started dating in our mid/late 20s (or even later), I think most of us have no idea what we really want in a romantic partner, and have no idea what a relationship is like, or even how to act in one (or how to go about finding one for that matter).

As you said at an earlier age inexperience can be more easily overlooked, especially since your date will be equally inexperienced. Not now. People like us have a tough road ahead of us.
Stargazer43 wrote:
When you are young, it is normal, and even considered somewhat "cute", to fumble through all of the difficult parts of dating like asking someone out, kissing, holding hands, etc. As you get older, people expect you to know how to do those things, and to be perfectly comfortable doing them. Not only that, but many older people really don't want to be your first "anything", and don't want to feel like they have to teach you anything romance-wise.

I'm doomed :(

The experienced girls expect experience from guys yet I once dated an inexperienced girl... I think she rejected me when she realised I couldn't teach her anything.
/lament


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26 Oct 2014, 1:47 am

Stargazer43 wrote:
Also, you can use those experiences as learning experiences, both to learn more about the kind of person you are interested in, and how to be a better person yourself in a relationship. For those of us who started dating in our mid/late 20s (or even later), I think most of us have no idea what we really want in a romantic partner, and have no idea what a relationship is like, or even how to act in one (or how to go about finding one for that matter).
This!! !

I remember myself at 18, when a girl showed romantic interest (meaning actually went on a date with me) for the first time in my life. After dreaming of having a girlfriend since I was 13, I was elated beyond words to see my dream become a reality. I was immediately willing to have a long-term committed relationship with her, and fully devoting myself to the relationship. I didn't care how right or how wrong she was for me; I was just happy to finally have a girlfriend. At the same time, (1) I wasn't physically attracted to her at all, (2) her interests were way out of sync with mine, and come to think of it, (3) she was kind of boring to be around. Even with all that, I constantly spoke very highly of her to third parties, even though what I actually liked about her was that she liked me. I later found out she didn't like me, when I took her dancing two months later, she didn't want to dance close, so even that dream didn't became a reality. (By contrast, some women I dance with now act affectionate after meeting me ten minutes ago.) At least I could congratulate myself for having gone on real date.

Had I done some dating early in life, even those awkward dates in an ice cream shop where neither knows what to say, I'd have a much clearer idea of what a relationship is like and what I expect to get out of one. Not jump at the chance with the first girl who showed romantic interest. And looking back on that particular girl, the only reason I wanted a relationship with her is because I didn't think anyone else would like me for a very long time (like another 18 years).



Last edited by Aspie1 on 26 Oct 2014, 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Oct 2014, 6:49 am

I didn't want a girlfriend until I was in my 20s.

I had chances as a teenager but I didn't capitalize on them because I was too autistic back then and I had no understanding of how normal people go about relationships, what relationships are, etc. My parents are both weird and have a weird relationship that is not typical of anyone else I've ever met. I think maybe my dad has aspergers as well or something similar. My mum has her own problems. They had children late and were much older than all of my friends parents. They are just an oddball couple. They would fight bitterly one month then be best friends the next, they both seemed to recognise that no one else would want them as a partner and so they stuck together loyally even when it appeared they don't really get on. We never had extended family to visit and so I never really saw what a normal relationship was. Never really understood how it would work or what people got out of it. It seemed like it would be a lot of effort and trouble for very little potential benefit.

By my 20s I was starting to get lonely of course and by 22 I met a woman who I thought liked me and so I desperately wanted to get with her. Of course it turned out she didn't really want me after all and the confusion and humiliation caused me to think very deeply about relationships from that point onwards. Now I kind of understand them in the way a normal person might, I think. But trying to find someone compatible is hard. I keep finding people who look damn near perfect for me only to learn they don't care about me at all.



Last edited by jerry00 on 26 Oct 2014, 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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26 Oct 2014, 7:00 am

There would be more children on the spectrum being born!

I know this is targeted at men, but perhaps my female experience could give insight into your question. I did not have trouble in the dating world. In fact, I always had "suitors". I attribute that to men/boys liking girls on the spectrum..as they may be easier to understand than NT girls and their social complexity.

I got married when I was 20. I had my first child at age 24. This was much younger than my friends and the general population of my peers.

Problems wouldn't end then, spectrum-men would probably be more likely to attend couples therapy...but perhaps that would result in a stronger more lasting relationship.


(I am of the camp that females on the spectrum *do* have it easier. Though, looking at my parents, spectrum men would probably do better by diving deep into their areas of interest and finding mates there.)


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26 Oct 2014, 7:32 am

First, I have not really dated anybody. When I was younger I had no idea about how dating was supposed to work at all, and as older I only feel it is a really bad idea.

However, I had mutually interested "relationships" from around 13-14 years age to about 18. The first one was really short as the girl got interested in another guy. The next one lasted for about a year, and ended because we changed schools, and thus no longer could see each others naturally. Then I got a crush on a girl in college, and we had mutual interest for 3 years, and that one also ended because we left school. Then I made a big mistake. I couldn't get over that college girl, and instead stayed attached to her for almost 10 years (I only met her once during that time), and thus didn't want to meet anybody else. Thus, the reason I had no girl during most of my 20s was because I didn't want to meet anybody else as I was still attached to a girl, and assumed I was monogamous. OTOH, most people wouldn't call my early experiences for relationships because we didn't talk to each others, and there were no formal agreement that we were in a relationship. Still, it was mutual, and none of the girls dated anybody else.

Then in my late 20s and early 30s I started meeting girls at dances, and eventually finding my wife that way.

So for me experience in my teens played no role. My major problem in the 20s was that I assumed I was monogamous and believed all the things related to that.



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26 Oct 2014, 9:36 am

I've often asked myself this question and yes, I think things could have turned out quite differently for me if I'd gotten lucky in relationships early on.

As an analogy, I read about many aspies struggling to get a good job even, though they'd be good at it (maybe it's related to their special interest), but I got lucky in that respect. I got a good job early on, was valued by employer and was head-hunted for the next job, so I've come to feel "attractive" to employers, so to speak. I genuinely believe that I'm a valuable worker (leaving modesty aside in order to make a point ;)). I also believe I could be a valuable partner (to the right person), but the difference is that I have absolutely no evidence to support that. Had I not gotten lucky with a job early on, I may still be struggling. I'd be thinking that I would be good at work and I should be attractive to employers, but without employers who agree, it would be hard to truly believe it. I'd be wondering bitterly why someone like me can't get a job when plenty of less-qualified, less-competent, less-motivated people do.

That's the psychological aspect, but of course, there's also a practical aspect to this - experience. It's all very well to think you would be good at something, but it's not the same as having already done it. Being inexperienced is acceptable when you're young, because everyone is in the same boat, but the older you get the more of a hindrance it becomes.


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WantToHaveALife
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27 Oct 2014, 9:21 pm

did any self help books help you get better at approaching women or how did you manage this?