Page 2 of 15 [ 226 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 15  Next

Shep
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Akron, OH

09 Nov 2014, 8:30 am

Shep wrote:
[my entire post]
*crickets*

See, I find it quite hilarious that you start this thread to spread all this nonsensical propoganda, then when someone comes and asks you to back it all up with the "facts" and "evidence" you claim to have, all you do is post YouTube videos of the same logical fallacies I outlined in my post plus a comedy routine from a dead guy. I have yet to see these "facts" or "evidence" that you speak of, and you have yet to refute (or for that matter, even address) anything I have said thus far. What's the matter? Can't stand "the big guns"? If you can't take the heat, don't start posting threads like this :lol:



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,541

09 Nov 2014, 11:10 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE[/youtube]


It seems to me that George Carlin has good working knowledge of how GOD works, but he doesn't understand the history of Abrahamic religions and the way they have been manipulated by people in power down through history.

He understands that prayer can work, no matter what name one uses for 'GOD' per the SUN, Joe, or whatever abstract worded concept is used, and he understands that the GOD of nature, is in the Sun, but doesn't extend that to ALL THAT IS.

Actually, the historical man named Yeshua; one of many translations of the name of the ACTUAL living man named Jesus now, was more of a Pantheist and Yogi, than anything associated with current Old Testament Version of what some folks refer to as a limited form of 'GOD's Word'

The actual man Jesus, spent forty days out in the desert separated from culture, and found GOD in nature, similar as Buddha wandering around the country side and sitting under a tree; and Muhammad, solitary in a cave imagining he was talking to Angels, and such as that.

The early oral traditions of Christianity better reflect the Gospel of Thomas, where the man Jesus' idea of GOD living within us, outside of us, above and below as an unnamable force is almost identical to the way Carl Sagan and most other modern scientists describe nature and as one and same.

Again, it's just words and whether they be GOD, the Sun, or Joe, or the 'Weather', it doesn't change the essence of the force scientifically proven to interconnect all that is in the interdependent relationship of all that is, just like the real dude Buddha and Jesus suggested, although Muhammad still seemed a little stuck on the previous biblical names of Angels, in his report of how it all works, to him at the time of his life.

And the Gospel of Thomas was censored out of the New Testament by the likes of Roman Emperor Constantine, who wanted to expand the Roman Empire and did erect a Sun-GOD like statue of himself to enhance his psychopathic leaning nature.

Constantine did this in part by making Jesus into a Warrior GOD, while his early Roman Catholic Cohorts, supported his desire of rule, in council meeting, not unlike a board meeting with guys smoking cigars for a major corporation today, to meet their selfish empowering desires. The early Roman Catholic Cohorts also developed an idea of a trinity well after Jesus lived.

The real man Jesus, as reported in this Gospel of Thomas, one of the ones censored out, said if you want to find the living one aka GOD, strip off your clothes and tread on them without shame of your nakedness like a little child. I practice this and find it works great in REAL LIFE TOO.

Oh by the way here's his words, as reported, in the Gospel of Thomas, before Constantine and his early Roman Catholic Cohorts, crowned him to be a warrior GOD of the frigging Universe.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

If Jesus knew that, and could be here to talk about it, he would likely be throwing tables in the temple disgusted as what has become of the words of a man, who said the humble will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven NOW.

No, NOT in SOME fantasy of an afterlife, created by psychopathic leaning folks who invented an eternal hell as well, to scare the crap out of folks to basically control their reproductive freedoms, for the men who were too weak, to secure their own women's desires, by satisfying them as virile men, to subjugating people for material gains by you must give us your 'tax worthy' ten percent, to build our churches to keep us in business.

Yes, that's what the turning over the tables in the moneychanger temple was all about, but many people still don't get it.

Nor do they get the historical FACT NOW EVIDENCED that Jesus was more of a classical pantheist mixed with Yogi healer than any frigging GOD of the Universe.

Problem with people looking to fantasies to cure their ills, like a kingdom of heaven after life, is they never even live in now, which is the saddest part of all. And in the linked text above, Jesus clearly indicates if you do not find the kingdom of heaven now, in nature, you will never find it, particularly after you are dead.

As shown through history per the American Indians and other people who live close to nature, and in reality of what human nature really means, they see GOD and Nature more CLEARLY as ONE force that they are an inseparable part of like Jesus and Buddha.

As soon as complex written languages were developed, along with collective intelligence, and complex cultures, people could invent whatever GOD suited their purposes to control the herd to live in a large population that humans are not evolved to live in, as they are only evolved to connect to around 150 to 200 sets of eyes.

And that's what they did obviously, and George Carlin gets that part for sure, however, he doesn't understand the definition of GOD most definitely includes the SUN, as a life giving force, that he so eloquently describes truthfully in his rant about religion that I agree with except for the part about GOD not existing, as science now does prove this interconnecting interdependent relationship of ALL THAT IS, MOST DEFINITELY DOES EXIST, WITHOUT QUESTION.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF SEMANTICS AND MORE GENERALLY LINGUISTICS, THAT COME FROM complex written human language, collective intelligence, and complex cultures, that primitive people's just aren't AS confused about.

IN other words, language can be illusion, but the essence of ALL THAT IS aka GOD is reality, and it is clear for those to see, who are not blinded by ignorance.

The American Indian could see, without written words, obviously, and so can we, if we find a way to escape COMPLEX WRITTEN LANGUAGE AND CULTURAL illusion.

And that's where the big camel, and the little eye of the needle come into play, as we are ALL RICH WITH COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE OF ILLUSION GROWING from complex written language forming more complex culture AS WE SPEAK, for those who do know, they do not know, the truth of what all that is, IS, by culture alone.

I find GOD in science, as I know it is the same GOD that Carl Sagan, the Real man Yeshua aka Jesus, and Bruce Lee were all talking about, per the force without visual form, until science came along and found ways to see more of it with the aided eye.

The essence is what counts.

Words are only empty constructs when they are illusion. Particularly when psychopathic leaning individuals who have little to no empathy or feeling connection to nature, are making the rules, and science does now show that the modern religious clergy is in the top ten list of professions of folks who do have psychopathic leaning tendencies.

Some things, rarely change, and control over others, through subjugation, oppression and repression of basic GOD GIVEN human nature Is a psychopathic leaning way.

IT IS THE SIMILAR TODAY AS YESTERYEAR, AND when oral tradition was replaced with the so called 'word of GOD', the problem was obviously exacerbated, as the oppression, repression and subjugation became man-made religious law from the 10 commandments down FROM the 613 commandments of the Torah.

Jesus consolidated it the same way Buddha did into one basic commandment love GOD aka as Nature (the living one) with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Fortunately this Universal law is built into our genetics, except for the psychopathic leaning individuals who GET THIS WAY FROM MUTATIONS OF NATURE, or the unloving eyes of a mother, or bullying peer in childhood PER NURTURE. They likely stayed in the gene pool, as they make excellent cold-blooded warriors, to support the human tribal instinct.

Innately the overwhelming majority of humans are evolved for human empathy, sharing, and cooperation.

It is the psychopathic leaning individuals who have always taken advantage of the good part of human nature, and they continue to do so, both in politics and brick and mortar religions.

DAVID ICKE CALLS THEM REPTILES. And yeah although obviously that shouldn't be take literally as it seems he does, but in truth, they are ruled moreover by the reptile part of the brain and associated wiring, per the psychopathic leaning individuals that do rule moreover by reptile brain of dominance over others, even in the same species, which is moreover antithetical to what it means to be a social animal, per cooperation or die, in GOD's greatest game of survival.

The human race is doomed without the golden rule, but it's in our genetics, OVERALL, and one cannot fool Mother Nature, and continue to survive.

My bet is that GOD aka Mother NATURE TRUE WILL HAVE 'HER' WAY. :)

WE CAN COOPERATE OR EVENTUALLY WE CAN BECOME EXTINCT AND THAT IS WHERE OUR RELATIVE FREE WILL COMES INTO PLAY! :)

WE CAN CREATE HEAVEN OR HELL NOW IN REAL LIFE.

IT'S UP TO US, NOW.

And GOD just sits back and 'watches' and 'waits' as GOD's WILL, WILL be done with US or without US AND OUR RELATIVE FREE WILL, as it has evolved to create both HEAVEN AND HELL IN REAL LIFE NOW.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Last edited by aghogday on 09 Nov 2014, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

09 Nov 2014, 2:43 pm

Shep wrote:
Shep wrote:
[my entire post]
*crickets*

See, I find it quite hilarious that you start this thread to spread all this nonsensical propoganda, then when someone comes and asks you to back it all up with the "facts" and "evidence" you claim to have, all you do is post YouTube videos of the same logical fallacies I outlined in my post plus a comedy routine from a dead guy. I have yet to see these "facts" or "evidence" that you speak of, and you have yet to refute (or for that matter, even address) anything I have said thus far. What's the matter? Can't stand "the big guns"? If you can't take the heat, don't start posting threads like this :lol:
*yawn* what big guns do you speak of? Can you provide any evidence of a god or gods existing? Knowing there is no evidence of a god or gods existing is pretty much enough to know there is evidence that there is no such thing as a diety. Also its spelled propaganda.

Have you tried praying? Ever notice nothing happens?

How about we do this, lets round up a bunch of religious folks in one room and non religious folks in another room, both groups are to take an exam, multiple choice if it were, the non religious folks get time to study prior to the exam while the religious folks rely on prayer, after that check the results and you might be shocked that the religious folks didn't do so well in the exam.

You do also realize that humans weren't made from mud and ribs correct? It has been proven time and time again via genetic data and the fossil record that we share a common ancestor with the chimpanzee. The Earth has also been proven via potassium argon dating and not carbon dating to be 4.5 billion years old. Noah's flood never happened otherwise all redwood trees still alive that predate the event the flood took place would not survive. Humans have been around tens of thousands of years prior to the bible and were hunters and gatherers it was then, when religion was thought up to try and explain the unexplainable before the concept of science. Religion has created stories to try and explain the un discovered and un explained using fairy tails and has kept people in fear of making discoveries and such. Science has disproven the many tall tales religion has provided like the ancient belief that if you travel far enough across the ocean you will fall over the edge of the earth but new lands were discovered. Space exploration has allowed us to observe that the Earth is indeed round and not flat also that the Earth revolves around the son and not the other way around. We have also discovered that we may not be alone in this universe and have found at least a dozen Earth like planets in our galaxy alone.

All gods are are concepts nobody has seen one and nobody will, nobody has physically felt one or has heard their voice unless they are hallucinating. There is no after life either, those who claim to be in another plane of existence upon near or temporary death experienced hallucinations due to lack of oxygen to the brain. If gods are real how come they seem to be made up when humans came to rise and not before that? If gods are eternal and want devoted followers then why the billions of years of nothing and maybe a few hundred million years of non human organisms that in no way shape or form have any religious affiliation? No shrines made by animals nothing! Religion is human made and gods are not eternal only made up.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


andrethemoogle
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,254
Location: Sol System

09 Nov 2014, 3:06 pm

Quote:
Have you tried praying? Ever notice nothing happens?


Um, going to have to disagree with you on this. I've prayed before and good things have happened, such as my health improving in a dire situation along with my parents.

Why is it that you have to go into every topic and basically bash everyone who believes in God? Seriously, I don't go into topics bashing people for being atheists or what have you. It's called tolerance, learn to accept that some people believe in God, some don't and some believe in whatever. /rant

Quote:
How about we do this, lets round up a bunch of religious folks in one room and non religious folks in another room, both groups are to take an exam, multiple choice if it were, the non religious folks get time to study prior to the exam while the religious folks rely on prayer, after that check the results and you might be shocked that the religious folks didn't do so well in the exam.


I never studied for my exams in high school and got 80 and 90s, so am I in the category of the "religious folks didn't do so well"? I didn't pray either.

Also, you do realize people can believe in God and believe in evolution, right? Hell, even Pope Francis basically stated that he believes evolution happened if you payed attention to what he's been saying since he became Pope. I'm a Catholic and I believe in evolution, I see no contradictions.



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

09 Nov 2014, 4:26 pm

andrethemoogle wrote:
Quote:
Have you tried praying? Ever notice nothing happens?


Um, going to have to disagree with you on this. I've prayed before and good things have happened, such as my health improving in a dire situation along with my parents.

Why is it that you have to go into every topic and basically bash everyone who believes in God? Seriously, I don't go into topics bashing people for being atheists or what have you. It's called tolerance, learn to accept that some people believe in God, some don't and some believe in whatever. /rant

Quote:
How about we do this, lets round up a bunch of religious folks in one room and non religious folks in another room, both groups are to take an exam, multiple choice if it were, the non religious folks get time to study prior to the exam while the religious folks rely on prayer, after that check the results and you might be shocked that the religious folks didn't do so well in the exam.


I never studied for my exams in high school and got 80 and 90s, so am I in the category of the "religious folks didn't do so well"? I didn't pray either.

Also, you do realize people can believe in God and believe in evolution, right? Hell, even Pope Francis basically stated that he believes evolution happened if you payed attention to what he's been saying since he became Pope. I'm a Catholic and I believe in evolution, I see no contradictions.
I have never studied for my exams in highschool neither have i prayed and got 80s and 90s as well and in some occasions 100% as well so that argument is invalid. Im not really bashing religions per se just a huge skeptic of it all. I may come off shall we say radical as an athiest but you wont see me protesting holidays like christmas and such or be offended by merry christmas either. The thing is for the good grades while not studying thats not the work of a god but the result in being gifted and already knowing all if not most of the answers.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Last edited by AspieOtaku on 10 Nov 2014, 5:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

09 Nov 2014, 4:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
As a staunch materialist I find the idea of 'god' to be silly...

...that said, science can't disprove 'god' anymore than one can prove I don't have a magical Nissan Bluebird in my garage.
You can't prove a negative. You can only fail to find evidence to support a positive.


I agree wholeheartedly with this.

I find it inherently childish that people believe in all these stories from antiquity, and then defend their belief with "prove god does not exist".


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Shep
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Akron, OH

09 Nov 2014, 5:52 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
*yawn* what big guns do you speak of? Can you provide any evidence of a god or gods existing? Knowing there is no evidence of a god or gods existing is pretty much enough to know there is evidence that there is no such thing as a diety. Also its spelled propaganda.
I would cite this whole thread as propoganda. And your statement falls victim to the "argument from ignorance" logical fallacy. Just because evidence doesn't exist to the contrary does not mean that the premise you seek is valid. You stated multiple times that you had "facts" and "much evidence" of there being no higher being, which I challenged you to provide. I don't need to prove my case, remember, you started this thread, and I'm challenging the content within.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Have you tried praying?
On countless occasions, yes.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Ever notice nothing happens?
See, when I pray, I don't do it for personal gain. That seems to help as stuff actually does happen, so no, I haven't ever noticed "nothing" happening as a result. He answers every prayer, but keep in mind that just because the answer isn't one you want doesn't mean that "nothing" happens. It just means he's said "no".

AspieOtaku wrote:
How about we do this, lets round up a bunch of religious folks in one room and non religious folks in another room, both groups are to take an exam, multiple choice if it were, the non religious folks get time to study prior to the exam while the religious folks rely on prayer, after that check the results and you might be shocked that the religious folks didn't do so well in the exam.
This hypothetical exercise is one founded in futility, but I'll bite. How about we do an exam on the Bible, and those non religious folks get books about lolcats that they must study for 36 consecutive hours prior? What? Not what you meant? Oh, I see, you want to give the non religious folks relevant study material. Hmm, I see. Doesn't work so well in reverse, does it?

AspieOtaku wrote:
You do also realize that humans weren't made from mud and ribs correct? It has been proven time and time again via genetic data and the fossil record that we share a common ancestor with the chimpanzee.
I'mma stop you right there: yes, I do realize that, and no, I never argued anything to the contrary. Fun fact: the Hebrew word they almost always translate to "rib" means "curve", (ancient reference to the double-helix structure of DNA perhaps???) and there's a lot more in dust than just gray particles. This is something that I firmly believe 99.9% of churches are just simply scared of and feel like they're "in too deep" to admit fault to. Dust has a vast number of single-celled organisms in it, correct? The theory of evolution states we came from a single-celled organism, correct? Yet, the theory of evolution can't seem to explain how one single celled organism created complicated creatures, and we have this Bible here saying it was "dust" which contains all kinds of different varieties, so... see what I'm getting at here? The only issue left is timing, but keep in mind, it was written by Moses, a man who (let's be honest) probably didn't understand the concept of "period of time". Or if he did, and if "day" was intentional, then it has an entirely different meaning.

Case in point: Genesis 1 creates light and dark before the Earth! Then on the second "day", he creates the sky! It isn't until day three that he creates the ground. The universe (at least, using Google) is 13.8 billion years old. The Age of Earth) is 4.54 billion years old. That leaves a gap of roughly (and I say "roughly" because the base numbers are estimates, but I digress) 9.26 billion years. That's a very long two days now isn't it??? Divide it by two, and we're left with 4.63 billion years for each Bible "day". But that would mean we're only in day three, which is where this next point comes into play:

AspieOtaku wrote:
The Earth has also been proven via potassium argon dating and not carbon dating to be 4.5 billion years old.
From the above, I suspect some number somewhere is wrong. I do not know which one, but either the Earth is moderately younger than we think, or the universe is far older than we believe. Bear in mind that the Milky Way is said to be 13.2 billion years old. If that was "bibilcal day 2", then day one only lasted 0.6 billion years, while day two lasted 8.66 billion? This is something that, again, I firmly believe science needs to get more accurate numbers on before I can make sense of it all.

(And just a note: while those two points above aren't said in any church doctrine to date, I aim to change that :) )

AspieOtaku wrote:
Noah's flood never happened otherwise all redwood trees still alive that predate the event the flood took place would not survive.
I was going to go with the "not enough water" argument, but this goes back to the Hebrew as well: their word for "world" means "known world", not "all of existence". It's entirely possible this was a localized flood that took place where only the humans were residing and is entirely unrelated to any other event. This would also explain how many modern land-based animals have direct links to prehistoric animals that pre-date Noah's time.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Humans have been around tens of thousands of years prior to the bible
Depends on what you call a "human"., and also what the biblical timeline actually is (which, as stated above, I believe to be widely misinterpreted).

AspieOtaku wrote:
and were hunters and gatherers it was then, when religion was thought up to try and explain the unexplainable before the concept of science.
I keep hearing this "religion was made up to explain the unexplainable" thing, and it being used to support the "science vs. religion" debate. The two are perfectly fine being in harmony quite honestly. Religion should NOT exist to explain the supernatural. What it should do is give a guideline for how to live life and what happens beyond human limitations. Anything within human limitations is explainable by (you guessed it) science! :)

AspieOtaku wrote:
Religion has created stories to try and explain the un discovered and un explained using fairy tails and has kept people in fear of making discoveries and such.
I'd argue this of the church itself moreso than the religion it practices. Martin Luther saw this same exact thing happening and posted almost a hundred examples of why the Catholic church was being hypocritical. I'd wager that we need another Martin Luther to straighten up the remaining (and wholly unnecessary but perpetuated by traditions) fight between science and religion.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Science has disproven the many tall tales religion has provided like the ancient belief that if you travel far enough across the ocean you will fall over the edge of the earth but new lands were discovered.
Agreed.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Space exploration has allowed us to observe that the Earth is indeed round and not flat also that the Earth revolves around the son and not the other way around. We have also discovered that we may not be alone in this universe and have found at least a dozen Earth like planets in our galaxy alone.
Something unaddressed in the Bible. Life outside this planet is a massive unknown. Not that it scares me, it's just simply unaddressed. Who knows, maybe we're the second iteration and we'll stumble across the first one that's waaaaay more messed up than we are :lol:

AspieOtaku wrote:
All gods are are concepts nobody has seen one and nobody will, nobody has physically felt one or has heard their voice unless they are hallucinating.
This seems like original research. Not sure how to address this one.

AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no after life either, those who claim to be in another plane of existence upon near or temporary death experienced hallucinations due to lack of oxygen to the brain.
I've always questioned the authenticity of this myself, so on the latter part, I agree with you here too. (The "no after life" part is not something I can prove nor disprove anyways, and I won't bother trying on that one. That's what faith is all about.)

AspieOtaku wrote:
If gods are real how come they seem to be made up when humans came to rise and not before that?
Keep in mind that humans invented writing, and we don't speak the languages of other animals. It's quite possible other animals have similar beliefs, or I could just be flat-out wrong even thinking that. I will say that of the animals we've managed to communicate with (Coco the Gorilla comes to mind), I often wonder what they feel about it, or if they know.

AspieOtaku wrote:
If gods are eternal and want devoted followers then why the billions of years of nothing and maybe a few hundred million years of non human organisms that in no way shape or form have any religious affiliation? No shrines made by animals nothing!
This is an interesting question that I honestly do not have an answer to but am curious myself on. One of those things the Bible doesn't address unfortunately.



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

10 Nov 2014, 3:09 am

^^ God says let there be light before he creates the Earth and the stars? How can there be light before hand? Where is the physical evidence of the tree of knowledge? Talking snakes and sky fairies? We have yet to find any evidence as such. How come there are multiple denominations * tens of thousands were talking here* of a Christianity each claiming to be the true faith while at the same time claiming others to be the incorrect faith? Is there proof of the tooth fairy the Easter bunny and Santa Clause existing? By the logic of not having proof disproving something that doesn't provide any evidence at all means it is possible that unicorns and dragons as well as leprechauns possibly being real.

Science is based on hypothesis testing and physical evidence while religion is based on faith. One could pray for it to snow in Australia in the outback during the summer and see if it happens but realize nothing happens. The bible and many other religious books claim to have the answer to everything when they do not and have tall tales instead. Now we could conduct an experiment to see if prayer really works thus proving a diety exists via mythbusters. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9izVu_TtAE[/youtube]Yes yes indeed another youtube video *for entertainment purposes primarily but makes a decent point at the same time*Image


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

10 Nov 2014, 5:31 am

Shep wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
*yawn* what big guns do you speak of? Can you provide any evidence of a god or gods existing? Knowing there is no evidence of a god or gods existing is pretty much enough to know there is evidence that there is no such thing as a diety. Also its spelled propaganda.
I would cite this whole thread as propoganda. And your statement falls victim to the "argument from ignorance" logical fallacy. Just because evidence doesn't exist to the contrary does not mean that the premise you seek is valid. You stated multiple times that you had "facts" and "much evidence" of there being no higher being, which I challenged you to provide. I don't need to prove my case, remember, you started this thread, and I'm challenging the content within.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Have you tried praying?
On countless occasions, yes.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Ever notice nothing happens?
See, when I pray, I don't do it for personal gain. That seems to help as stuff actually does happen, so no, I haven't ever noticed "nothing" happening as a result. He answers every prayer, but keep in mind that just because the answer isn't one you want doesn't mean that "nothing" happens. It just means he's said "no".

AspieOtaku wrote:
How about we do this, lets round up a bunch of religious folks in one room and non religious folks in another room, both groups are to take an exam, multiple choice if it were, the non religious folks get time to study prior to the exam while the religious folks rely on prayer, after that check the results and you might be shocked that the religious folks didn't do so well in the exam.
This hypothetical exercise is one founded in futility, but I'll bite. How about we do an exam on the Bible, and those non religious folks get books about lolcats that they must study for 36 consecutive hours prior? What? Not what you meant? Oh, I see, you want to give the non religious folks relevant study material. Hmm, I see. Doesn't work so well in reverse, does it?

AspieOtaku wrote:
You do also realize that humans weren't made from mud and ribs correct? It has been proven time and time again via genetic data and the fossil record that we share a common ancestor with the chimpanzee.
I'mma stop you right there: yes, I do realize that, and no, I never argued anything to the contrary. Fun fact: the Hebrew word they almost always translate to "rib" means "curve", (ancient reference to the double-helix structure of DNA perhaps???) and there's a lot more in dust than just gray particles. This is something that I firmly believe 99.9% of churches are just simply scared of and feel like they're "in too deep" to admit fault to. Dust has a vast number of single-celled organisms in it, correct? The theory of evolution states we came from a single-celled organism, correct? Yet, the theory of evolution can't seem to explain how one single celled organism created complicated creatures, and we have this Bible here saying it was "dust" which contains all kinds of different varieties, so... see what I'm getting at here? The only issue left is timing, but keep in mind, it was written by Moses, a man who (let's be honest) probably didn't understand the concept of "period of time". Or if he did, and if "day" was intentional, then it has an entirely different meaning.

Case in point: Genesis 1 creates light and dark before the Earth! Then on the second "day", he creates the sky! It isn't until day three that he creates the ground. The universe (at least, using Google) is 13.8 billion years old. The Age of Earth) is 4.54 billion years old. That leaves a gap of roughly (and I say "roughly" because the base numbers are estimates, but I digress) 9.26 billion years. That's a very long two days now isn't it??? Divide it by two, and we're left with 4.63 billion years for each Bible "day". But that would mean we're only in day three, which is where this next point comes into play:

AspieOtaku wrote:
The Earth has also been proven via potassium argon dating and not carbon dating to be 4.5 billion years old.
From the above, I suspect some number somewhere is wrong. I do not know which one, but either the Earth is moderately younger than we think, or the universe is far older than we believe. Bear in mind that the Milky Way is said to be 13.2 billion years old. If that was "bibilcal day 2", then day one only lasted 0.6 billion years, while day two lasted 8.66 billion? This is something that, again, I firmly believe science needs to get more accurate numbers on before I can make sense of it all.

(And just a note: while those two points above aren't said in any church doctrine to date, I aim to change that :) )

AspieOtaku wrote:
Noah's flood never happened otherwise all redwood trees still alive that predate the event the flood took place would not survive.
I was going to go with the "not enough water" argument, but this goes back to the Hebrew as well: their word for "world" means "known world", not "all of existence". It's entirely possible this was a localized flood that took place where only the humans were residing and is entirely unrelated to any other event. This would also explain how many modern land-based animals have direct links to prehistoric animals that pre-date Noah's time.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Humans have been around tens of thousands of years prior to the bible
Depends on what you call a "human"., and also what the biblical timeline actually is (which, as stated above, I believe to be widely misinterpreted).

AspieOtaku wrote:
and were hunters and gatherers it was then, when religion was thought up to try and explain the unexplainable before the concept of science.
I keep hearing this "religion was made up to explain the unexplainable" thing, and it being used to support the "science vs. religion" debate. The two are perfectly fine being in harmony quite honestly. Religion should NOT exist to explain the supernatural. What it should do is give a guideline for how to live life and what happens beyond human limitations. Anything within human limitations is explainable by (you guessed it) science! :)

AspieOtaku wrote:
Religion has created stories to try and explain the un discovered and un explained using fairy tails and has kept people in fear of making discoveries and such.
I'd argue this of the church itself moreso than the religion it practices. Martin Luther saw this same exact thing happening and posted almost a hundred examples of why the Catholic church was being hypocritical. I'd wager that we need another Martin Luther to straighten up the remaining (and wholly unnecessary but perpetuated by traditions) fight between science and religion.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Science has disproven the many tall tales religion has provided like the ancient belief that if you travel far enough across the ocean you will fall over the edge of the earth but new lands were discovered.
Agreed.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Space exploration has allowed us to observe that the Earth is indeed round and not flat also that the Earth revolves around the son and not the other way around. We have also discovered that we may not be alone in this universe and have found at least a dozen Earth like planets in our galaxy alone.
Something unaddressed in the Bible. Life outside this planet is a massive unknown. Not that it scares me, it's just simply unaddressed. Who knows, maybe we're the second iteration and we'll stumble across the first one that's waaaaay more messed up than we are :lol:

AspieOtaku wrote:
All gods are are concepts nobody has seen one and nobody will, nobody has physically felt one or has heard their voice unless they are hallucinating.
This seems like original research. Not sure how to address this one.

AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no after life either, those who claim to be in another plane of existence upon near or temporary death experienced hallucinations due to lack of oxygen to the brain.
I've always questioned the authenticity of this myself, so on the latter part, I agree with you here too. (The "no after life" part is not something I can prove nor disprove anyways, and I won't bother trying on that one. That's what faith is all about.)

AspieOtaku wrote:
If gods are real how come they seem to be made up when humans came to rise and not before that?
Keep in mind that humans invented writing, and we don't speak the languages of other animals. It's quite possible other animals have similar beliefs, or I could just be flat-out wrong even thinking that. I will say that of the animals we've managed to communicate with (Coco the Gorilla comes to mind), I often wonder what they feel about it, or if they know.

AspieOtaku wrote:
If gods are eternal and want devoted followers then why the billions of years of nothing and maybe a few hundred million years of non human organisms that in no way shape or form have any religious affiliation? No shrines made by animals nothing!
This is an interesting question that I honestly do not have an answer to but am curious myself on. One of those things the Bible doesn't address unfortunately.
The Bible was written by many people and revised time and time again and also contradicts itself time and time again! Also thanks for admitting that the bible cannot answer everything! Muahahhahaha!! ! Even the bible cannot explain it all even though its supposed to be true and all knowing I see a flaw in our midst! An easy explanation could be that it all occurred naturally and that there is no god but then it will spark the endless loop of science vs religion arguments time and time again it is rather entertaining indeed though! So most will take the approach on giving a story that religious followers want to hear instead of pure accuracy by backing it up with a different version of the bible in their own way instead of being strait forward and just easily dismissing that the religion is accurate on how the world and universe works and how it all began! Modern science has more accurate data than some outdated books depicting of magical beings and such *although it is indeed fun to imagine* we live in a world of reality most of us would rather know instead of believe in something that has a astronomical low percentage of proving it exists. Faith vs fact and actuality has a very very low success rate if you bring it into equation! If you were to rely only on faith and nothing else you will not last long in this world, if you were to run and try to jump over the Grand Canyon and pray to your god to give you the strength to allow you to jump over the Grand Canyon * I would not recommend it because it will lead to a Darwin award for everyone to read and laugh at later* that prayer will not work nor faith. Thus providing some evidence and reason for no god to exist, sure you can say it did not work because you were not devoted enough in the faith but the results will still be the same.*yawn* Im still waiting for those big guns, where are they?The thing is religion seems to be a primitive man made concept but also in away a brilliant one for those to manipulate millions of others to get others to do the bidding of the founder of the said religion it is also easy to corrupt as well regardless of the contradictions it brings like forbidding murder but when say Jehova aka god aka Yahwei aka allah instructed Abraham to kill his own son to prove he loves this god but later on forbidding murder? What about the false promises of being in heaven and awarded 72 virgins for simply blowing yourself up as a martyr killing many non believers yet forbidding suicide and murder? Were talking innocent people who simply just don't believe but they are somewhat evil and infidels because either they have a different belief or dont have one at all?I mean seriously it all seems to be just a waste of time but also a waste of lives to benefit the zealous and power hungry leaders who founded these ideas for their personal gain.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

10 Nov 2014, 6:35 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CccaGaKOlSI[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g[/youtube]If god is real he is not that smart at all and has the intel of a child with insecurity issues hes not perfect like the religions perceive either.If he was smart and perfect he wouldnt make a tree of knowledge in the first place or allow adam and eve to have free will but I think if he was real he probably did it for the lulz! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m0YYy9lqqs[/youtube]Another thing is how do we know this so called god is male and not female and what would the purpous for god to have a penis or any reproductive organ be?


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

10 Nov 2014, 10:32 am

I think you (Shep) are falling into the same sort of reasoning trap that I have fallen into many times because we share a culture/point in time. And that trap is seeing religion entirely from the perspective of the Abrahamic religions because that is what surrounds most WP posters. I've done it (on this board even) because it's so hard not to when it surrounds you. But as somebody once posted, everybody is an athiest regarding most of the gods. If you step back and take all of human history over the entire planet into account, then the folly of trying to map science onto the religion closest to you becomes more apparent. But if you don't step back, it is nearly irresistable to map the Book of Genesis (as though that was the only religious story) onto current scientific knowledge. On this very board I have wondered if "Let there be light"=Big Bang. But if you take a step back, it becomes apparent that bronze age farmers in the Middle East weren't more likely to have tweaked onto scientific truths just because they were Israeli rather than Egyptian or Roman. Meanwhile in the Pacific Northwest, entirely different creation stories were being created but we ignore them too. The Book of Genesis is all we (including I) ever appeal to when mapping science onto religion. This is a giant blind spot that can make religion seem more science-based than it actually is.

Shep wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
You do also realize that humans weren't made from mud and ribs correct? It has been proven time and time again via genetic data and the fossil record that we share a common ancestor with the chimpanzee.
I'mma stop you right there: yes, I do realize that, and no, I never argued anything to the contrary. Fun fact: the Hebrew word they almost always translate to "rib" means "curve", (ancient reference to the double-helix structure of DNA perhaps???) and there's a lot more in dust than just gray particles. This is something that I firmly believe 99.9% of churches are just simply scared of and feel like they're "in too deep" to admit fault to. Dust has a vast number of single-celled organisms in it, correct? The theory of evolution states we came from a single-celled organism, correct? Yet, the theory of evolution can't seem to explain how one single celled organism created complicated creatures,
...
except it can.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicellular_organism

This is much of the problem of using Book of Genesis as the sole source for trying to map science onto religion. It encourages you to ignore evidence that goes against the chosen narrative. But if you choose another creation story from an unfamiliar culture, the urge to ignore the science that doesn't fit that narrative goes away and it makes the blind spot more apparent, and the folly of doing this.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,541

10 Nov 2014, 11:55 am

Well, although obviously the many folks who created the bible back somewhere 3500 years ago, in oral tradition, with all the multitude of versions that make what the different versions are today, were only human.

Mythology and human archetypes serve the same natural purpose, understanding not just HOW IT WORKS BUT HOW TO WORK IT.

Philosophers and or Prophets truly are one and the similar as both look within, outside, above SO below for the answers to HOW TO WORK IT AND HAVE A GREAT LIFE!

WELL, guess what, no matter what the metaphors are or the mythological tools are, THEY ARE part of what Makes IT WORK. Yes, PART OF THE methodology of how HUMAN CREATIVITY WORKS.

Now to be clear not all folks are philosophers/prophets, AND OR creative. They do not have the same access to the subconscious mind, HUMAN ARCHETYPES and genetic memory that science now evidences as REAL.

BUT THROUGH instinct and intuition the answers can be found within for humans who develop these real life skills to find them, employ them, and exercise them in REAL LIFE NOW.

THIS IS what Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, and Friedrich Nietzsche did and unfortunately in a world steeped in mechanical cognition, revolutionary instinctually and intuitively thinking philosophers are a rare breed these days, as culture in the last 50 years has not been one to 'breed' them, but that is changing now as we speak, as free flow of access to information is also growing while we speak.

The reason prayer works is simple, the REAL SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN power of human believing and the mastery of the human mind for those who DO relative free will over their body and in extension OF environment as well.

A person can have faith, belief, in NEGATIVE SYMBOLIC words FOR THE ESSENCE OF HUMAN EMOTION, which are the same as the metaphor of prayer, and literally make themselves sick through the scientifically proven EFFECT OF THE NOCEBO EFFECT, THE OPPOSITE OF THE PLACEBO EFFECT, and WHICH IS MORE OR LESS PRAYER FOR A POSITIVE OUTCOME IN LIFE.

THAT'S WHAT PRAYER IS, BELIEVING AND HAVING FAITH and HOPE WITH HUMAN WILL OF SYMBOLIC WORDS OF POSITIVE ENERGY FUELED BY HUMAN EMOTION THAT A POSITIVE OUTCOME WILL OCCUR INSTEAD OF A NEGATIVE ONE, AND IT WORKS, CONCLUSIVELY AS PROVEN BY SCIENCE.

AND IF one's prayers never come true, please check one's attitude as likely negative, as science shows that MAY BE THE ISSUE AS TO not having success per the NOCEBO effect.

All science is, is the scribe of GOD and of course it is more effective than religion as the methods used are advanced NOW as compared to anecdotal observations of philosophers/prophets among the herds of people thousands of years ago.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hO4_UEe-4[/youtube]

Attitude is over 50 percent of success in life, AND POSSIBLY CLOSER TO 100 PERCENT, and to have belief, FAITH AND HOPE UTILIZING relative human free will, as per the words of Friedrich Nietzsche whose premise that the old myth of the tribal GOD of Judaism was dead, but WHO still noted that the 'GOD' of mother nature, could eventually make the potential of a real human superman possible, for one who pursued human potential without fear.

And yeah, Buddha, Jesus, Mr. Nietzsche and even Bruce Lee were all on to the same thing.

YES, see, I have an open mind, TOO, AND I know humans don't do things for no reason at all, that's just not the way we are evolved.

Humans are evolved to survive and they will use whatever tool THERE IS necessary to survive, whether it is religion per controlling the herd in a large population that we are not evolved to live in per classic evolution, or in my case to heal myself of 19 medically documented disorders including the reciprocal social communication problems that come with Autism.

I did IT through instinct and intuition in tapping into the HIGHER POWER OF MOTHER NATURE, AND OR THE SPECIAL FEATURES OF GOD, AS THEY ARE ONE AND SAME, and JUST AS THE EFFECT OF THE PLACEBO EFFECT AND PRAYER ARE ONE AND SAME.

THE ESSENCE IS TRUTH, THE WORDS ARE JUST SHELLS TO HOLD THE TRUTH, THAT CAN CHANGE TO WHATEVER HUMANS DESIGN THEM TO BE.

BUT AGAIN, the bottom line IS IT works, and in REAL LIFE, AS DOCUMENTED ON MY BLOGS, people see the things I do with exclamations like HOLY SH**!

And yes, a little over ago I was almost a complete shut-in in my home for five long years, not even able to eat a meal or walk around the block without ALMOST passing out.

Now I can leg press 810 LBS, 12 times, as documented on my blogs.

And as they say, evidence or it didn't happen, here is irrefutable evidence of one of those reps, with the reaction of the gym attendant that never saw anyone else do this in the MILITARY gym, me at 54 as compared to the other early 20?s Marines with the big muscles that work out there.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_UremHO__g[/youtube]

I did it with faith, belief, HOPE and prayer in positive outcomes in life, and not only that I have dance walked a mixed martial arts and ballet style now 2584 miles in a little over 14 months as will be documented on my blog a little later today, by way of Nike GPS sports watch, and I also did that with no lessons and only instinct and intuition by looking within and finding answers through the GOD of mother nature, and not culture ALONE.

But the other incredible thing is that science now shows the answers God gave me through human instinct, intuition, and archetypes were scientifically correct as well.

AS the cerebellum that controls movement also controls sensory integration, and emotional regulation, so when one works with gravity and finds balance on left foot and right foot AS ONE, emotions and non-verbal physical communication responds in kind with expression and balance, or what the philosophers of old per Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, and Mr. Nietzsche suggested was possible for the metaphor of the modern Prometheus. AS this too is the reason I CAN leg press 810 LBS now, as the Marines still can't understand how I do it, but THEY DO NOT DANCE EVERYWHERE THEY GO.

So yeah, I am a real MODERN superman, not a fairy flying in the sky.

I am one produced by instinct, intuition, science and math, as I fly on terrestrial plane balanced in the golden mean ratio of 1.618, per the pattern of the 'design' of the Universe, and nah, I didn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out, all I had to do was dance with GOD, like the philosophers/prophets of OLD DID.

Yeah, remember that dance King David did, he was literally dancing with Mother Nature True, aka GOD. It just took science several thousand years to catch up on the details as to why IT WORKS. :)

AND NO, IN REAL LIFE, I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO PROMOTE THIS MYSELF, as literally hundreds of people have video taped me IN THE LAST 14 MONTHS, and shared IT with their FRIENDS ON FACE BOOK, AS TO HOW I DO IT IN REAL TIME.

I'M SHOWING FOLKS how to live in bliss, but it IS only something that truly a dance can tell, in nonverbal expression. And before written communication, dance IS the common way people communicated with each other, even more so than verbal language.

But ha-ha, nothing has changed as even with text communication now, real flesh and blood movement in non-verbal language comprises at least 60 percent of REAL FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE human SOCIAL RECIPROCAL communication, which takes practice in the FULL DANCE OF LIFE, NOT just tapping on a keyboard staring at a screen, as that skill in non-verbal communication can wither away too, as it did with me, for sure, until I danced again with GOD.

When they say GOD works in mysterious ways, it's true, but when science catches up to GOD, there's always USUALLY an a-ha moment to experience, with a toothy grin of success in life to live working with GOD not against GOD through cultural illusions.

While it's easy to get lost in semantics and linguistics the ESSENCE OF GOD IS REAL AND IRREFUTABLY PROVEN for those who work with GOD instead of Against GOD, simple and TRUTH.

And in viewing the video below, it is plain to see that these MODERN men of science IN THE SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE are the modern philosophers/prophets of the GOD of Mother Nature True, and they have the same Zealous PASSION to spread the TRUTH of GOD as Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Nietzsche, or Bruce Lee did.

It is only the differences in the ABSTRACT symbolic languages describing GOD that GET IN THE WAY OF FOLKS SHARING THE SAME ESSENCE OF TRUTH IN PEACE AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE PER THE TRUTH OF THE WAY MOST HUMANS ARE CLASSICALLY EVOLVED TO LIVE TOGETHER IN LOVE, PEACE AND MOREOVER SOCIAL COOPERATION FOR SURVIVAL IN BALANCE with the REST OF THE UNIVERSE, AKA MOTHER NATURE TRUE, AKA GOD.

Separation from the GOD OF ALL THAT IS, IS THE GRANDEST OF ALL ILLUSIONS, AND A common path to REAL HUMAN HELL; WHEREAS BLISS OR HUMAN HEAVEN, IS THE other not so common path THAT I NOW personally reap the benefits of through simple human enlightenment, that my cat enjoys similar WITOUT THE LABYRINTH ILLUSIONS OF MODERN 'WESTERNIZED' CULTURE.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk[/youtube]


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Shep
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Akron, OH

10 Nov 2014, 6:40 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
^^ God says let there be light before he creates the Earth and the stars? How can there be light before hand?
Isn't this a science question? :lol:

AspieOtaku wrote:
Where is the physical evidence of the tree of knowledge?
It's a tree. You do the math.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Talking snakes and sky fairies? We have yet to find any evidence as such. [...] Is there proof of the tooth fairy the Easter bunny and Santa Clause existing?
If you wish to have a serious conversation, we can have one, but all I see is an fanatical aethiest attacking every single religion in the OP, then seeming to traverse backwards and focus intently on the Bible. I thought you said you had "facts" and "proof" of there being no God. All you're doing is dissecting the content of a book. Science doesn't consider that proof by any means. I again challenge you to come forth with this "evidence" that supports the hypothesis that, and I quote, "there is no such thing as a god you are wasting your time and allowing yourself to be a thrall to a made up concept". You yourself stated (again quoting here), "science has proven it he is make believe", yet you have yet to come forth with any science proving this.

AspieOtaku wrote:
How come there are multiple denominations * tens of thousands were talking here* of a Christianity each claiming to be the true faith while at the same time claiming others to be the incorrect faith?
Three points here: 1) you're asking why there's disagreement, and yet here we are, 2) I challenge you to name these "tens of thousands of denominations", as there are far fewer than that, and 3) that all being said, at no point was that last bit even remotely true. Baptists think Lutherans are going to hell for being Lutherans? Give me a break. :roll:

AspieOtaku wrote:
By the logic of not having proof disproving something that doesn't provide any evidence at all means it is possible that unicorns and dragons as well as leprechauns possibly being real.
Welcome to logical thinking 101. Ever hear of Bigfoot? Quite a few have claimed to seen or experienced the creature, yet no proof has come to light that he does exist. Since the entire globe has yet to be documented, it is entirely possible such a thing does exist. Ditto for aliens, the Loch Ness Monster, etc. Call them what you will, the fact of the matter is that until we can definitively prove 100% that they are nowhere in this entire planet (or in the case of aliens, the universe), there is still a possibility that they do in fact exist.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Science is based on hypothesis testing and physical evidence while religion is based on faith.
Yes. And?

AspieOtaku wrote:
One could pray for it to snow in Australia in the outback during the summer and see if it happens but realize nothing happens. [...]Now we could conduct an experiment to see if prayer really works thus proving a diety exists via mythbusters. [video]Yes yes indeed another youtube video *for entertainment purposes primarily but makes a decent point at the same time*
What does this have to do with anything? It's summer, of course it's not going to snow. As I stated before, just because you pray for something doesn't mean it's going to happen. God is not your personal servant. Anything relying on the premise of "prayer always..." is flawed to begin with. The Bible has examples of prayers not being answered. Find me a place that says that every single prayer is answered without fail and I'll show you the context that proves otherwise.

AspieOtaku wrote:
The bible and many other religious books claim to have the answer to everything
[citation needed]. At no point did any religious text ever invented claim to have every answer to ever exist.

AspieOtaku wrote:
when they do not and have tall tales instead.
Now we're resorting to more original research I see...

AspieOtaku wrote:
The Bible was written by many people
Not sure what your definition of "many" is, but multiple, yes.
AspieOtaku wrote:
and revised time and time again
[citation needed] It was translated time and time again, but at no point was it "revised" in the manner of which you speak.

AspieOtaku wrote:
and also contradicts itself time and time again!
[citation needed] Care to point out examples?

AspieOtaku wrote:
Also thanks for admitting that the bible cannot answer everything! Muahahhahaha!! ! Even the bible cannot explain it all even though its supposed to be true and all knowing I see a flaw in our midst!
"supposed to be" according to whom exactly? Care to cite references for this? I have never heard anyone proclaim that Bible "explains it all" before, so this is news to me.

AspieOtaku wrote:
An easy explanation could be that it all occurred naturally and that there is no god but then it will spark the endless loop of science vs religion arguments time and time again it is rather entertaining indeed though!
I can't even make sense of what you are trying to say here, but it sounds like you're saying science is right therefore religion must be wrong? If that's the case, "therefore" is an invalid jump in logic there. Otherwise, I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.

AspieOtaku wrote:
So most will take the approach on giving a story that religious followers want to hear instead of pure accuracy by backing it up with a different version of the bible in their own way instead of being strait forward
I am not "most". And keep in mind: every version of the Bible you've ever read was translated. That's why different versions exist to begin with. If we all spoke the same language, there would be no need for translations at all.

AspieOtaku wrote:
and just easily dismissing that the religion is accurate on how the world and universe works and how it all began!
Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Modern science has more accurate data than some outdated books depicting of magical beings and such
While true, I'm not classifying the Bible as an "outdated book depicting magical beings and such".

AspieOtaku wrote:
*although it is indeed fun to imagine* we live in a world of reality most of us would rather know instead of believe in something that has a astronomical low percentage of proving it exists. Faith vs fact and actuality has a very very low success rate if you bring it into equation!
So you do admit there is still some percentage of possibility that God does exist. Interesting. Here I thought science was about being 100% right, not, you know, 95% right.

AspieOtaku wrote:
If you were to rely only on faith and nothing else you will not last long in this world
That's why faith is a supplement, not an alternative.

AspieOtaku wrote:
if you were to run and try to jump over the Grand Canyon and pray to your god to give you the strength to allow you to jump over the Grand Canyon * I would not recommend it because it will lead to a Darwin award for everyone to read and laugh at later* that prayer will not work nor faith. Thus
This goes back to my "God is not your personal servant nor did he claim to be" bit above. Since the premise is flawed, that means this next bit:

AspieOtaku wrote:
providing some evidence and reason for no god to exist, sure you can say it did not work because you were not devoted enough in the faith but the results will still be the same.
Is inherently flawed to begin with.

AspieOtaku wrote:
The thing is religion seems to be a primitive man made concept but also in away a brilliant one for those to manipulate millions of others to get others to do the bidding of the founder of the said religion
Scientology is a great example of this.

AspieOtaku wrote:
it is also easy to corrupt as well regardless of the contradictions it brings like forbidding murder but when say Jehova aka god aka Yahwei aka allah instructed Abraham to kill his own son to prove he loves this god but later on forbidding murder?
I have bolded and underlined the flaw you introduced into your own argument. Yes, as time went on, the rules did change a bit. Need I mention, you know, the New Testament as a whole?

AspieOtaku wrote:
What about the false promises of being in heaven and awarded 72 virgins for simply blowing yourself up as a martyr killing many non believers yet forbidding suicide and murder?
Are we discussing the Bible or radical Islam now?

AspieOtaku wrote:
Were talking innocent people who simply just don't believe but they are somewhat evil and infidels because either they have a different belief or dont have one at all?
Sure sounds like radical Islam...

AspieOtaku wrote:
I mean seriously it all seems to be just a waste of time but also a waste of lives to benefit the zealous and power hungry leaders who founded these ideas for their personal gain.
Original research, perhaps?

Again, you created this thread saying you had "proof" and "facts" that God doesn't exist, and yet you have yet to come forward with them. So far you're trying to debunk the content of a book. How does that in any way, shape, or form disprove the existence of a higher being?



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

10 Nov 2014, 11:00 pm

Shep wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
^^ God says let there be light before he creates the Earth and the stars? How can there be light before hand?
Isn't this a science question? :lol:

AspieOtaku wrote:
Where is the physical evidence of the tree of knowledge?
It's a tree. You do the math.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Talking snakes and sky fairies? We have yet to find any evidence as such. [...] Is there proof of the tooth fairy the Easter bunny and Santa Clause existing?
If you wish to have a serious conversation, we can have one, but all I see is an fanatical aethiest attacking every single religion in the OP, then seeming to traverse backwards and focus intently on the Bible. I thought you said you had "facts" and "proof" of there being no God. All you're doing is dissecting the content of a book. Science doesn't consider that proof by any means. I again challenge you to come forth with this "evidence" that supports the hypothesis that, and I quote, "there is no such thing as a god you are wasting your time and allowing yourself to be a thrall to a made up concept". You yourself stated (again quoting here), "science has proven it he is make believe", yet you have yet to come forth with any science proving this.

AspieOtaku wrote:
How come there are multiple denominations * tens of thousands were talking here* of a Christianity each claiming to be the true faith while at the same time claiming others to be the incorrect faith?
Three points here: 1) you're asking why there's disagreement, and yet here we are, 2) I challenge you to name these "tens of thousands of denominations", as there are far fewer than that, and 3) that all being said, at no point was that last bit even remotely true. Baptists think Lutherans are going to hell for being Lutherans? Give me a break. :roll:

AspieOtaku wrote:
By the logic of not having proof disproving something that doesn't provide any evidence at all means it is possible that unicorns and dragons as well as leprechauns possibly being real.
Welcome to logical thinking 101. Ever hear of Bigfoot? Quite a few have claimed to seen or experienced the creature, yet no proof has come to light that he does exist. Since the entire globe has yet to be documented, it is entirely possible such a thing does exist. Ditto for aliens, the Loch Ness Monster, etc. Call them what you will, the fact of the matter is that until we can definitively prove 100% that they are nowhere in this entire planet (or in the case of aliens, the universe), there is still a possibility that they do in fact exist.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Science is based on hypothesis testing and physical evidence while religion is based on faith.
Yes. And?

AspieOtaku wrote:
One could pray for it to snow in Australia in the outback during the summer and see if it happens but realize nothing happens. [...]Now we could conduct an experiment to see if prayer really works thus proving a diety exists via mythbusters. [video]Yes yes indeed another youtube video *for entertainment purposes primarily but makes a decent point at the same time*
What does this have to do with anything? It's summer, of course it's not going to snow. As I stated before, just because you pray for something doesn't mean it's going to happen. God is not your personal servant. Anything relying on the premise of "prayer always..." is flawed to begin with. The Bible has examples of prayers not being answered. Find me a place that says that every single prayer is answered without fail and I'll show you the context that proves otherwise.

AspieOtaku wrote:
The bible and many other religious books claim to have the answer to everything
[citation needed]. At no point did any religious text ever invented claim to have every answer to ever exist.

AspieOtaku wrote:
when they do not and have tall tales instead.
Now we're resorting to more original research I see...

AspieOtaku wrote:
The Bible was written by many people
Not sure what your definition of "many" is, but multiple, yes.
AspieOtaku wrote:
and revised time and time again
[citation needed] It was translated time and time again, but at no point was it "revised" in the manner of which you speak.

AspieOtaku wrote:
and also contradicts itself time and time again!
[citation needed] Care to point out examples?

AspieOtaku wrote:
Also thanks for admitting that the bible cannot answer everything! Muahahhahaha!! ! Even the bible cannot explain it all even though its supposed to be true and all knowing I see a flaw in our midst!
"supposed to be" according to whom exactly? Care to cite references for this? I have never heard anyone proclaim that Bible "explains it all" before, so this is news to me.

AspieOtaku wrote:
An easy explanation could be that it all occurred naturally and that there is no god but then it will spark the endless loop of science vs religion arguments time and time again it is rather entertaining indeed though!
I can't even make sense of what you are trying to say here, but it sounds like you're saying science is right therefore religion must be wrong? If that's the case, "therefore" is an invalid jump in logic there. Otherwise, I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.

AspieOtaku wrote:
So most will take the approach on giving a story that religious followers want to hear instead of pure accuracy by backing it up with a different version of the bible in their own way instead of being strait forward
I am not "most". And keep in mind: every version of the Bible you've ever read was translated. That's why different versions exist to begin with. If we all spoke the same language, there would be no need for translations at all.

AspieOtaku wrote:
and just easily dismissing that the religion is accurate on how the world and universe works and how it all began!
Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Modern science has more accurate data than some outdated books depicting of magical beings and such
While true, I'm not classifying the Bible as an "outdated book depicting magical beings and such".

AspieOtaku wrote:
*although it is indeed fun to imagine* we live in a world of reality most of us would rather know instead of believe in something that has a astronomical low percentage of proving it exists. Faith vs fact and actuality has a very very low success rate if you bring it into equation!
So you do admit there is still some percentage of possibility that God does exist. Interesting. Here I thought science was about being 100% right, not, you know, 95% right.

AspieOtaku wrote:
If you were to rely only on faith and nothing else you will not last long in this world
That's why faith is a supplement, not an alternative.

AspieOtaku wrote:
if you were to run and try to jump over the Grand Canyon and pray to your god to give you the strength to allow you to jump over the Grand Canyon * I would not recommend it because it will lead to a Darwin award for everyone to read and laugh at later* that prayer will not work nor faith. Thus
This goes back to my "God is not your personal servant nor did he claim to be" bit above. Since the premise is flawed, that means this next bit:

AspieOtaku wrote:
providing some evidence and reason for no god to exist, sure you can say it did not work because you were not devoted enough in the faith but the results will still be the same.
Is inherently flawed to begin with.

AspieOtaku wrote:
The thing is religion seems to be a primitive man made concept but also in away a brilliant one for those to manipulate millions of others to get others to do the bidding of the founder of the said religion
Scientology is a great example of this.

AspieOtaku wrote:
it is also easy to corrupt as well regardless of the contradictions it brings like forbidding murder but when say Jehova aka god aka Yahwei aka allah instructed Abraham to kill his own son to prove he loves this god but later on forbidding murder?
I have bolded and underlined the flaw you introduced into your own argument. Yes, as time went on, the rules did change a bit. Need I mention, you know, the New Testament as a whole?

AspieOtaku wrote:
What about the false promises of being in heaven and awarded 72 virgins for simply blowing yourself up as a martyr killing many non believers yet forbidding suicide and murder?
Are we discussing the Bible or radical Islam now?

AspieOtaku wrote:
Were talking innocent people who simply just don't believe but they are somewhat evil and infidels because either they have a different belief or dont have one at all?
Sure sounds like radical Islam...

AspieOtaku wrote:
I mean seriously it all seems to be just a waste of time but also a waste of lives to benefit the zealous and power hungry leaders who founded these ideas for their personal gain.
Original research, perhaps?

Again, you created this thread saying you had "proof" and "facts" that God doesn't exist, and yet you have yet to come forward with them. So far you're trying to debunk the content of a book. How does that in any way, shape, or form disprove the existence of a higher being?
http://www.philvaz.com/DENOMS.php list of all denominations by name. here is a list of contradictions as well http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/ ... radictions So I may have over exxagerated on the denominations in only being thousands and not ten thousands.

How can an omnipotent omniciant and perfect being be perfect when in the bible he changes? If he knew that satan was going to be evil and know that Adam and Eve were going to eat the fruit ahead of time why did he place the tree of knowledge there in the first place? If he knew it was all going to happen then he is sadistic and secretly wanted all the disasters to happen. I see many many flaws here. Also when I used to go to church when I used to be religious I went to many different denominations penticostal mormon baptist christian etc and each one claims the other denomination is incorrect as I grow older and study more into anthropology geology paleontology and biology I realize all the beliefs and such were incorrect and are unrealistic. Let us not forget that the holy symbol is a device used for torturing and killing *the cross*.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Last edited by AspieOtaku on 11 Nov 2014, 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

10 Nov 2014, 11:41 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_um69RqBpSw[/youtube]Noas Ark was also plagiarized from other religions.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

11 Nov 2014, 1:49 am

http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm a link to one of the 50 other simple proofs proving god does not exist or any other diety.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList