God does nor exist nor do gods exist!

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Unfortunately we don't. The only "facts" you will ever accept are either ones you make up, or the occasional scientific theory that by way of your warped logic seems to you to fit your ridiculous ideology.

I've not claimed any ideology other than science and reason. Your ideology cannot tolerate either.

The information about early earth enviroment preceded the experiment. Miller and Urey didn't design the flask enviroment to be conducive to making amino acids. They designed it to mimic what the geological sciences said was the early earth enviroment. They didn't even realize that amino acids had been made. They were testing the hypothesis that organic compounds would be made from the inorganic precursors present. This hypothesis was correct, making the experiment seminal and historic so the flask was preserved. The experiment was done in 1952 and the flask stayed sealed for over 50 years until it was re-opened and re-examined in 2007 after Miller's death. This re-examination showed amino acids (detection techniques advanced in 50 years).



The experiment has been succesfully repeated many times with tweaks to the flask enviroment as geologists learn more about early earth.


It's weirdly simple.
adenine, guanine,cytosine, thymine

You wouldn't think that so much information could be stored in just four little nucleotide bases but it's all in the order they are arranged. Look how much information computers can store just by arranging 0 and 1

I like the weirdly simple bit; so many things are just that.

However, you can break it down even further... so much information can be stored in various arrangements of the atoms of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, sulphur, blah blah, etc. etc. Your problem is that such things do not and cannot exist other than in a living organism. 0's and 1's in a computer are an invention of intelligence that means or does something for a purpose.

I will contend that vastly more complex systems that comprise the Universe are also an invention of intelligence for a purpose.

I gave that last sentence its own quote brackets because it's not true. RNA can be created experimentally in the absence of life.

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090513/ ... 9.471.html



This^^^ was the substance of your original objection.

Sutherland counters:


But before you say that this points to the need for intelligent guidance (as you did) note what Shapiro is exactly objecting to:


He isn't saying that this level of organization needs an intelligent guiding hand. He's saying there is an intermediate step not present (but still naturally occuring) in the experiment.

That process is called evolution. No intelligence required. Crystals are more orderly than the elements that make them. So are snowflakes. Life arguably doesn't change the total amount of order in a system, in that life produces waste products and poisons like oxygen.

Claimed, yet thus far failed to demonstrate.

We can only judge your ideology on the merits of your posts, which have been unscientific and unreasoned.

Davy is off once again to answers in genesis to try and make more failed claims.https://answersingenesis.org/ LOL

When you get right down to it, though, all of these are composed of the same positively and negatively charged particles.

You know...like 1 and 0.

To me, the more magnificent we find the universe to be, the weirder it seems to go on pretending that it was created by a Middle Eastern pedophile who demanded we cut off parts of the penises of little boys.

A more noble vision is to be found in the tangled webs of particle physics, which are sounding more like actual magic every day. The difference is that it's actually based on valid empirical science.

Last edited by Persimmonpudding on 16 Dec 2014, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I suspect this might actually be the case. He will go there asking for help to debunk good evidential science and come back with evidence from good evidential science that he and his cronies have forcibly twisted and molded to suit there infantile religious dogma.

Unfortunately its lIke Ken Ham said when asked a question at the end of a debate with Bill Nye, to paraphrase the question and the answer "what would make you change your mind" he answered "Nothing, because I believe in scripture and no knowledge can trump it"

It is interesting you would use this analogy with magic, I am reading a book on the history of science in antiquity to 1700, and during the scientific revolution of the renaissance this is exactly what magic was seen as, ie the magic of the natural world, and understanding this magic to further knowledge. I also find it astounding that for centruies theologians would accept that if natural philosophy showed scripture to be wrong then it was scripture that should be altered, St Thomas Aquinas is a prime example. ANd yet here we are with the full knowledge of scientific discoverys literally at our fingertips and we are debating fools who would deny all knowledge in favour of their "common sense" belief.

On common sense I like this quotation by a person Oldavid would no doubt describe as an old fool who had no idea what he was talking about;

Common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down by the mind before you reach eighteen

A. Einstein

The age at which most people stop developing either morally or intellectually.

Davy at it again i mean um Ray comfort!

Culture, in general, by the time one reaches 18 can almost entirely rob people of the common sense of basic human homeostasis.

Ever since humans started becoming sedentary creatures WORLDWIDE religions have been working OVERtime to find a way back to common sense PER simple animal homeostasis through complex forms of meditation, chants, and or prayer, AND ETC., ETC., etc.

Even the basic common sense of NOT sitting sedentary and rarely moving is escaping the purview of the 'herd' these days, OVERALL.

That's just plain Insanity.

And truly as Einstein also NOTED, folks who do that over and over again, (the sitting still thingy) and expect to feel better are exercising the Einstein definition of Insanity BY NOT EXERCISING AT ALL.

FULL Physical intelligence, IS the kind that can balance ITSELF through distance and space as science now shows regulates both emotional intelligence and sensory integration.

MOST PEOPLE FAIL MISERABLY ON THAT.

THE RATES of childhood obesity and pre-type two diabetes at almost one-third of U.S. school age children is evidence enough of that, of course with sky-rocketing rates of usage of anti-depressants, and close to half the population using some type of pain killer.

Our ancestors just a generation or two ago, HAD THIS COMMON SENSE, but it's drifting away TO close to nothing for MOST PEOPLE now.

Generally speaking, people do not do the MOST BASIC of common sense ACTIONS just to be at peace in their mind AND BODY (including emotional regulation and sensory integration) these days as they are too busy doing mental masturbation of illusory fears and irrational ways of behaving LIKE SITTING STILL ALL DAY in THE REAL WORLD, instead.

To understand that GOD is Mother Nature True and to UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HELL human nature even is, and how to master IT is ONLY THE FIRST STEP TO TRUE HUMAN WISDOM otherwise known as REAL COMMON SENSE, AS the GOD of Mother Nature way WILL HAVE HER WAY, by way of human nature, too.

THE REALITY is Mother Nature is our GOD and 'WE' ARE ALL slaves to her way, OR 'WE' DO PAY the consequences as statistics DO SHOW NOW.

And yes, there is at least SOME EVIDENCE OF THAT HERE, per that common sense thingy.