How old is too old to not have a career yet?

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Cartier
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05 May 2015, 6:25 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:
during which decade of the 20th century(since we are still kinda barely into the 21'st century), did it start to become a huge trend, started to become expected of the vast majority of employers that provide financial stability to their employees, expect them to have a college degree before hiring them? overall, when did college education, a college degree start to become more demanding in the job market?


Employers do not provide financial stability to their employees out of the kindness of their hearts -- they pay them the least amount of money possible, so that they won't just quit/walk away (a transfer payment is the economic term, I think). Employers pay what they need to pay to retain staff with the skill set they require.

Requiring a college degree (and often a graduate degree these days!) is a relatively recent phenomenon... the latter is definitely a late '80s/early '90s thing. A grad degree as union card, if you will, as a means of thinning the herd of applicants who apply for any given position.

The requirement for a college/grad degree?

Is a good thing. Is somewhat meritocratic. Well, maybe not a good thing but certainly a less bad than the way people used to go about getting jobs.

Think about how people used to get jobs? Because they knew somebody. Or were related to somebody who already had a job on the assembly line, at the factory or at the white shoe law firm.

A degree or two doesn't automatically translate into a well-paying job (though it can obviously help) but, to me, the value is that it gives you a lot more say in how you choose to earn your living. and there are still jobs out there that pay well and don't require any sort of post-secondary education (though many involve a non-negotiable, unpleasant component of physical labor).

I have a grad degree, so obviously have a certain bias in the whether-a-degree-is-necessary stakes, but it is worth contemplating what having completed any sort of degree/diploma communicates to employers. My take is also that what your degree is in is pretty much irrelevant.

Pretty much everybody who wants to be gainfully employed will need to:
- complete tasks not entirely of their choosing by a deadline not entirely of their choosing to a standard not entirely of your choosing (that may or may not make sense in the first place)
- work with colleagues not entirely of your choosing without strangling them
- submit to the authority of a person who may well be a psychotic hose beast (or who thinks you are one)
- complete long term projects

A degree (rightly or wrongly) communicates to employers that you have those skills, as you successfully spent 3-4 years completing requirements you didn't choose, to standards you didn't set on a timeline you (mostly) had no say in.



asdisme
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05 May 2015, 6:37 pm

I completely get it...I am 37 and have worked as a Substitute teacher for 10 years, its difficult with all the anxiety and social issues people like us have. I am still in school finishing my Doctorate in Education. If anyone wants to help me finish school by completing a few online surveys let me know I am trying to make life a little easier for people with Autism who transition from High School into the real world. Here's the link to the first part of my study, it shouldn't take you but a few minutes

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FV8QLPT



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05 May 2015, 9:38 pm

Cartier wrote:
Employers do not provide financial stability to their employees out of the kindness of their hearts -- they pay them the least amount of money possible, so that they won't just quit/walk away (a transfer payment is the economic term, I think). Employers pay what they need to pay to retain staff with the skill set they require.

*******

Think about how people used to get jobs? Because they knew somebody. Or were related to somebody who already had a job on the assembly line, at the factory or at the white shoe law firm.

*******

My take is also that what your degree is in is pretty much irrelevant.


I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think you're taking some of it to extremes, which may not be helpful to everyone here if they take you literally.

1. Some employers do pay at least some employees out of the kindness of their hearts--and sometimes those employers are actually generous; those people are rare, but they do exist. They don't always pay people who are well-qualified for those jobs, but that's another issue that I don't really have the time or desire to write about.

2. Before degrees became more-or-less required in a lot of fields, most people got jobs by otherwise convincing potential employers they were qualified and willing/able to fulfill those other requirements you listed--or at least appealing to them in some other way(s), which may or may not have been via their connections. Today, connections do still matter, at least sometimes.

3. The subject upon which you've based your degree may matter quite a lot, depending on the kind of field you want to work in and your other qualifications/lack of qualifications.



Cartier
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06 May 2015, 7:56 am

1. Expecting or, worse, counting on, finding an employer that'll pay you lavishly due to altruism-only is not a good idea.

3. Applies if the job you want is subject to state or federal licensing requirements only, eg mechanic, doctor, hairdresser. Guessing those professions make up under 1/5 of the jobs in the U.S. Some of which don't require degrees and pay trainees (apprenticeships in skilled trades).

2. For the other 4/5 of jobs, there's wiggle room. At any given time employers are sometimes willing to hire based on potential or desperation, ergo virtually all employers are at least occasionally willing newbie a shot. Like, 80% of people I know (myself included) have jobs in fields unrelated to their degree/diploma.

The who you know thing can be bad (straight up nepotism) or somewhat good (an employer giving you a shot because a colleague or professor vouched for you).

Employers can and often are pretty flexible.



WantToHaveALife
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06 May 2015, 2:38 pm

Cartier wrote:
WantToHaveALife wrote:
during which decade of the 20th century(since we are still kinda barely into the 21'st century), did it start to become a huge trend, started to become expected of the vast majority of employers that provide financial stability to their employees, expect them to have a college degree before hiring them? overall, when did college education, a college degree start to become more demanding in the job market?


Employers do not provide financial stability to their employees out of the kindness of their hearts -- they pay them the least amount of money possible, so that they won't just quit/walk away (a transfer payment is the economic term, I think). Employers pay what they need to pay to retain staff with the skill set they require.

Requiring a college degree (and often a graduate degree these days!) is a relatively recent phenomenon... the latter is definitely a late '80s/early '90s thing. A grad degree as union card, if you will, as a means of thinning the herd of applicants who apply for any given position.

The requirement for a college/grad degree?

Is a good thing. Is somewhat meritocratic. Well, maybe not a good thing but certainly a less bad than the way people used to go about getting jobs.

Think about how people used to get jobs? Because they knew somebody. Or were related to somebody who already had a job on the assembly line, at the factory or at the white shoe law firm.

A degree or two doesn't automatically translate into a well-paying job (though it can obviously help) but, to me, the value is that it gives you a lot more say in how you choose to earn your living. and there are still jobs out there that pay well and don't require any sort of post-secondary education (though many involve a non-negotiable, unpleasant component of physical labor).

I have a grad degree, so obviously have a certain bias in the whether-a-degree-is-necessary stakes, but it is worth contemplating what having completed any sort of degree/diploma communicates to employers. My take is also that what your degree is in is pretty much irrelevant.

Pretty much everybody who wants to be gainfully employed will need to:
- complete tasks not entirely of their choosing by a deadline not entirely of their choosing to a standard not entirely of your choosing (that may or may not make sense in the first place)
- work with colleagues not entirely of your choosing without strangling them
- submit to the authority of a person who may well be a psychotic hose beast (or who thinks you are one)
- complete long term projects

A degree (rightly or wrongly) communicates to employers that you have those skills, as you successfully spent 3-4 years completing requirements you didn't choose, to standards you didn't set on a timeline you (mostly) had no say in.


I already know, I have known that for a while now that employers do not pay their employees, give them financial stability out of kindness or sympathy, I have been well aware of that for a while now, what I meant was that, when did it start to become a huge phenomenon, in which employers expect their prospective candidates to be college educated, have a college degree before considering hiring them? and what I meant by "started to become expected of the vast majority of employers that provide financial stability to their employees, expect them to have a college degree before hiring them?", is that having only a high school diploma, will make it very difficult to get hired at a decent-paying job, as in having a high school diploma it seems, will only get you hired at a job that pays minimum-wage, or just a job that will not pay you enough to put food on the table, pay all of your bills for the rest of your life, etc.

I'm asking that when did it start to become expected of decent paying jobs, jobs that pay significantly above minimum-wage, start to expect their prospective candidates to be college educated? hopefully you get what i'm saying, it's kinda hard to put this into words.



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06 May 2015, 2:42 pm

...I have none :( :cry: .


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Cartier
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06 May 2015, 4:34 pm

Quote:
get you hired at a job that pays minimum-wage, or just a job that will not pay you enough to put food on the table, pay all of your bills for the rest of your life, etc.

I'm asking that when did it start to become expected of decent paying jobs, jobs that pay significantly above minimum-wage, start to expect their prospective candidates to be college educated? hopefully you get what i'm saying, it's kinda hard to put this into words.


It hasn't happened yet, at least not in America, where less than 1/3 of adults have a 4-year college degree. Median income for 25-34 year olds with only a high school diploma is $35,000 and median income for the same cohort with a two-year community college certificate/diploma is $40,000, sez the Institute of Education Sciences.



WantToHaveALife
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29 Jun 2015, 2:57 pm

Cartier wrote:
Quote:
get you hired at a job that pays minimum-wage, or just a job that will not pay you enough to put food on the table, pay all of your bills for the rest of your life, etc.

I'm asking that when did it start to become expected of decent paying jobs, jobs that pay significantly above minimum-wage, start to expect their prospective candidates to be college educated? hopefully you get what i'm saying, it's kinda hard to put this into words.


It hasn't happened yet, at least not in America, where less than 1/3 of adults have a 4-year college degree. Median income for 25-34 year olds with only a high school diploma is $35,000 and median income for the same cohort with a two-year community college certificate/diploma is $40,000, sez the Institute of Education Sciences.


I wonder if its common for a lot of people to lack ambition, lack the motivation to be career-oriented, become independent and financially stable when they are lacking in their social life and dating life/sex life.



StackedAces
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30 Jun 2015, 4:02 am

I'm 24 and still haven't decided what I want to do when I grow up. Does that make me a loser?
Well, I'm not entirely sure. But I do know this much, I have seen and done things and been places
that most people NT or not will never. And it's thanks to my indecision... it's let to interesting jobs.
All I'm trying to say is that's it's different strokes.



WantToHaveALife
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30 Jun 2015, 5:36 am

StackedAces wrote:
I'm 24 and still haven't decided what I want to do when I grow up. Does that make me a loser?
Well, I'm not entirely sure. But I do know this much, I have seen and done things and been places
that most people NT or not will never. And it's thanks to my indecision... it's let to interesting jobs.
All I'm trying to say is that's it's different strokes.


ya i'm 27 and I have a minimum-wage job at a grocery store, sometimes I feel like a loser, yes I know this is ultimately my responsibility, I guess I have naturally lacked ambition, no clue as to why.



xenocity
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30 Jun 2015, 9:46 am

StackedAces wrote:
I'm 24 and still haven't decided what I want to do when I grow up. Does that make me a loser?
Well, I'm not entirely sure. But I do know this much, I have seen and done things and been places
that most people NT or not will never. And it's thanks to my indecision... it's let to interesting jobs.
All I'm trying to say is that's it's different strokes.

No, not at all.
Hell even if were career driven, there is no guarantee you'd land that job due to the current mess job market is in.


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kraftiekortie
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30 Jun 2015, 2:33 pm

I'm 54, and I don't have a career yet.

I have a job, though.

When I retire from this job, I want to pursue a CAREER in transitional assistance for autistic people on the cusp of independence.



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30 Jun 2015, 2:45 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm 54, and I don't have a career yet.

I have a job, though.

When I retire from this job, I want to pursue a CAREER in transitional assistance for autistic people on the cusp of independence.


Wow kraftie, that is such a great goal!

As for careers and when is too late -- to anyone wondering that, there are a great many people in the arts who started late or only achieved a working career later in life from their art form. Many novelists, actors, directors. Zelda Rubinstein, the psychic character in the original "Poltergeist," gave up a steady job to start an acting career at the age of 47. Danny Aiello was 40 when he started his career in acting.

You're never too old to do anything you would really like to pursue doing, as long as biology will allow. It's never too late to go back to school, start a new path in life, get qualified for something new, start up a business and become self employed, learn a trade, write a book, etc.


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kraftiekortie
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30 Jun 2015, 2:48 pm

Birdie: you're SOARING today!



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30 Jun 2015, 3:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Birdie: you're SOARING today!


Oh stop, haha!

Now....if I could only take my own advice....LOL! :lol:


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~ ~ ~

If you have a problem with something I post, something I believe, something I do or say, something in my sig, or something I am stupid enough to share that I'm struggling with and being caused pain by -- TELL ME TO MY FACE so that I can defend myself, instead of see you make a mockery of or a dig about it later.

On the other hand, friends will never need an explanation, and enemies bent on disliking me will never accept one.

ASD Level 1, PTSD. Plus anxiety with panic attacks, mild sub-clinical situational depression -- and a massive case of sheer freakin' BURNOUT.

~ ~ ~