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Lukecash12
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14 Nov 2014, 1:58 am

So I've been reading things like this lately:

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To be impartial toward these short sighted and cowardly fools is to allow their nonsense to impact your life, and impede progress in the years to come. It needs to be stopped now, and it is perfectly acceptable to be angry about it.

The united states lost the supercollider to another country because a majority of it's population were too ignorant to see merit in it.

I stand by the opinion that if you believe it, you should have to be amish.

Religion would go out of style overnight if it weren't so damn comfy.


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there are all those "these people are abominations unto the LORD" and "The LORD shall spit them from his mouth," and "these things are detestable to the LORD your God," quotes in the Bible - you know, His Greatest Hits collection?

If you actually read the book, He comes across as a bit of an as*hole.


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If a Christian can?t find the answers to a question you might have asked them, then they simply say "God works in mysterious ways" this makes my blood boil.

If god created the universe, why would she create a planet 20 billion miles away, a planet we will never be able to reach? God works in mysterious ways...Urr


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I believe the problem with Christianity is, aside from some of Christianty's specific quirks, that something is intrinsically wrong with monotheism. Monotheists seem to develop a style of thinking about the world that's crazy.

Basically you have what you believe to be one unchallenged and always correct power. Anything that you can rationalize as being desired by that power or approved by that power is automatically correct and/or good. Hence letting your child die of diabetes while you pray like a moron while refusing to give them insulin is the good thing to do.

Also since your one power is, in your opinion, the embodiment of all that is right and good then anything or anyone that seems to be in opposition to it must be evil or wrong.


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When someone else online mention's anything positive about God or JC or almost anything to do with church and the Bible I get EXTREMELY angry and upset, especially when they say it's the only way in a completely vane attempt to make me feel bettersolve a problem and everyone needs God in their lives and if someone is suffering God will help them. If that were true than religious people who study the Bible, go to church and pray daily would miraculously be cured of cancer or get their job back or have a place to live. I'm so sick of the bigoted Bible-thumpers telling me why I am going to hell: Don't go to church, doesn't read the Bible, doesn't pray, likes Halloween (which interestingly enough is one of the very few holidays anyone with any religion can celebrate), read Harry Potter books, thinks angels and demons are as make-believe as fairies and mermaids, doesn't go to Midnight Mass at Christmas, is left-handed, owns cats for pets, and doesn't wear a bonnet (okay that last one was a slight exaggeration).


And now I've been mulling over them lately. So let me have it! What do you think religion is? What do you think we actually believe? Do you really know what's in our books or did you cherry pick something? Do you have a reasonable idea of what we believe or are you being incredibly caustic like these folks over segments of religions?

Well, I'd like to supply a picture of all of the rest of us who are religious and just as offended by these people. And since I'm a Christian I'd like to present what I think are the core realities of the religion, along with diligent support.


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aghogday
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14 Nov 2014, 4:55 am

I think it all boils down to LOVE and TRUST

Love of ALL THAT IS aka GOD AND TRUST in GOD

LOVE OF ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS ONE'S SELF AND TRUST IN ONE'S NEIGHBOR.

AND LOVE OF ONE'S EXISTENCE AND TRUST IN ONE'S EXISTENCE.

Otherwise known as the Golden rule and the New Testament rule as well.

BUT WITHOUT the fourth line there is no way to get to 1, 2 and 3.

Some folks never get to the first step with anything about unconditional love or trust, in tow, sadly enough, and usually propagated by the first two years of life and the absence of nurturing caregivers, whomever they may be.

The human archetype of the importance of 'Mary' as a nurturing mother cannot be underestimated in value of whatever the man Jesus became as an adult, or the rest of us per that overall human archetype of the divine feminine nurturing love of a mother.


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14 Nov 2014, 10:16 am

I think why some people react harshly towards religion is because some religous nutters try to force their beliefs on the entire population. I wrote this in another thread, it's only been a few years here that stores are allowed to open on sundays even though the overwhelming majority of people are NOT Christians (only 28% believe in some sort of God/Gods). And with the munipal election the Christian political parties were campaigning to force stores to close again on sundays. I'm an atheist, now why should I not be allowed to do what I want on sundays? These people are attacking our rights because of religious reasons. Same with things like euthenasia.



aghogday
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14 Nov 2014, 11:27 am

trollcatman wrote:
I think why some people react harshly towards religion is because some religous nutters try to force their beliefs on the entire population. I wrote this in another thread, it's only been a few years here that stores are allowed to open on sundays even though the overwhelming majority of people are NOT Christians (only 28% believe in some sort of God/Gods). And with the munipal election the Christian political parties were campaigning to force stores to close again on sundays. I'm an atheist, now why should I not be allowed to do what I want on sundays? These people are attacking our rights because of religious reasons. Same with things like euthenasia.


The real Jesus as reported in the Gospel of Thomas would probably roll his eyes as Alcohol is part of nature and so is foreskin so no per that gospel if Mother Nature True approves of it; it's ok. And on top of that the real historical Sabbath is on Saturday.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

There are so-called fundamentalist nutter Christians AND nutter Atheists and that's just a segment of humanity.

There are so-called psychopathic leaning Atheists AND Christians and that's just a segment of society.

Put a group of any literal-thinking folks together with one or more psychopathic leaning leaders and one WILL get some CRAZY sh88!

History is full of examples and there are some online autistic communities on Facebook that are textbook examples but I am not going to name them as that is against the rules here.

And at least 90 percent of the folks were I live are Christians but they too for the most partake of Mother Nature's "spirits". And a free market economy IS KING HERE, so closing stores on Sunday as a political referendum, is beyond even 'Nutter aspirations' where I live.

I'm assuming you live somewhere in Scandinavia where the social welfare state works for the majority of people and organized religion is no longer necessary to glue society together.

But that doesn't change the ratio of nutters or psychopaths as obviously with the demographics of Christians quoted it's just a nutter initiative like the Libertarian party in the US. In other words, it is a waste of time thinking it will change anything in THE REAL WORLD as is.

And by the way for clarity I am using the Einstein definition of insanity not the DSM criteria.

Doing the same dam thing over and over the same way and getting the same result but expecting a different result never the less, yes, the Einstein definition of Insanity.

I do the different thing over and over and almost always get results.

And that's simply a law of Mother Nature True aka GOD too.

Diverse ways of thinking and doing things creates results.

It's also called adaption to environmental struggle and challenge through change and success in meeting novel challenges and struggles through novel ways of doing things.

Truly some folks almost never change, and that's Einstein?s definition of insanity in a nutshell.

In other words, these ARE the true 'Nutters' of Mother Nature FALSE, both Atheist and Christian, as 'Nutter' is a way of life not just a religion unto itself practiced only on Sundays.


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trollcatman
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14 Nov 2014, 1:08 pm

aghogday wrote:
I'm assuming you live somewhere in Scandinavia where the social welfare state works for the majority of people and organized religion is no longer necessary to glue society together.


Almost right, I live in the Netherlands, which is pretty similar. In my experience all of the countries in Western/Northern Europe are pretty much the same. I'm always surprised at how much people in the US are religious compared to what I'm used to here.
In the Eurobarometer poll they asked people not what religion they had but what their beliefs were:
a: belief in God/Gods
b: belief in a spirit or life force
c: neither

In the Netherlands it's about equally divided, with most people choosing b. I think some of the difference between the US and continental Europe might have to do with the political system. In the US there are no explicitly Christian parties, although most politicians are Christian. In many continental European countries you have the Christian Democrats, Social Democrats/Labour, and a Liberal party (in the European sense, which means right wing economics but no religious nuttery). And then some smaller parties, we have also two other more conservative Christian parties, so that makes three. I think especially these political iterations of Christianity is what turns people away from it. Gay marriage and euthenasia which are both pretty popular among people here were only possible because the Christians were voted out of office and the secular parties took over, and people haven't forgotten who blocked it all those years. The largest Christian party now has only 13/150 seats, and is the fifth party in size.

Interesting that you mentioned the Sabbath is on saturday. A while ago some Christians were handing out flyers saying that saturday should be the day of rest because of that, and not sunday. A Calvinist I know explained that they know Sabbath is on saturday, but that for them sunday is the day of rest because Jesus either died or was born on a sunday, I don't remember exactly. Anyway, I don't mind

Here's that Eurobarometer poll of 2010 on wikipedia, under "religiosity": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union



aghogday
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14 Nov 2014, 1:27 pm

trollcatman wrote:
aghogday wrote:
I'm assuming you live somewhere in Scandinavia where the social welfare state works for the majority of people and organized religion is no longer necessary to glue society together.


Almost right, I live in the Netherlands, which is pretty similar. In my experience all of the countries in Western/Northern Europe are pretty much the same. I'm always surprised at how much people in the US are religious compared to what I'm used to here.
In the Eurobarometer poll they asked people not what religion they had but what their beliefs were:
a: belief in God/Gods
b: belief in a spirit or life force
c: neither

In the Netherlands it's about equally divided, with most people choosing b. I think some of the difference between the US and continental Europe might have to do with the political system. In the US there are no explicitly Christian parties, although most politicians are Christian. In many continental European countries you have the Christian Democrats, Social Democrats/Labour, and a Liberal party (in the European sense, which means right wing economics but no religious nuttery). And then some smaller parties, we have also two other more conservative Christian parties, so that makes three. I think especially these political iterations of Christianity is what turns people away from it. Gay marriage and euthenasia which are both pretty popular among people here were only possible because the Christians were voted out of office and the secular parties took over, and people haven't forgotten who blocked it all those years. The largest Christian party now has only 13/150 seats, and is the fifth party in size.

Interesting that you mentioned the Sabbath is on saturday. A while ago some Christians were handing out flyers saying that saturday should be the day of rest because of that, and not sunday. A Calvinist I know explained that they know Sabbath is on saturday, but that for them sunday is the day of rest because Jesus either died or was born on a sunday, I don't remember exactly. Anyway, I don't mind

Here's that Eurobarometer poll of 2010 on wikipedia, under "religiosity": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union


Ah, thank you for the clarification, that makes sense now; a minority party with AN Ideology and name Christian attached, but of course still with 'Relative Einstein Insanity' like the Libertarian party in the US as a futile CONTINUING practice OF ACTION IN BEHAVIOR PER ACTUAL DESIRED REAL LIFE RESULTS. :)

And thanks for the link, I am fascinated by how when humans act as they are EVOLVED by Mother Nature True as to what I see GOD as, per sharing and cooperation, AND MOREOVER SACRED UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, they need no imaginary GODS but the REAL one in the backyard OR A DESOLATE PRISTINE BEACH, like me. :)

As far as I am concerned if a person believes in the True Laws of MOTHER Nature and Human Nature they believe in the same GOD as I do.

Words are just empty shells without Truth, in my opinion, and of course with EINSTEIN LIKE logic, GOD, as well. :)


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Lukecash12
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16 Nov 2014, 10:43 pm

I fail to see what gnosticism or European demographics has to do with any of this, sorry guys. What I meant to do was present a defense against the incendiary picture being given of Christians.


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aghogday
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17 Nov 2014, 12:46 am

I Personally think it has much to do with WHY SOME FOLKS DO Not LIKE CHRISTIANITY AS TRULY CAUSTIC FOR SOME FOLKS AS IS, but no If the early Catholic Roman Church and Constantine, did not make Jesus into a Warrior GOD things might be different, but more likely there might not be any Christianity per se of patriarchal traditions that see women the lesser spiritual as compared to men, and the ridiculous argument that Jesus is an only son of GOD, in my opinion, of course, as for the most part that is what we all are providing here.

Truly enforcing the religion as do or die as mandatory is why it's so big now, as compared to other religions, including Islam, of course as similar, which is basically enforced even stronger now, world-wide.

People enjoy human freedom when allowed overall and truly forcing one to Love GOD and repeating John 3:16 as literal truth, is NOT human FREEDOM for many people today, AND MANY MORE have a choice that gets to be other.

But I think there is the potential of a message of the Golden Rule GREATER IN TRUE EFFECT AND AFFECT, once the gray hairs, that refuse to change, go their path to dust as we all do, in the end, HERE, at least. ;)

And yes per true effect AND AFFECT of Catholic Church I sat in church today and listening to the argument that OBEDIENT WIVES SHOULD FEAR GOD, and men should not IN THE BIBLE READINGS.

Was anyone paying attention but me though; not likely NEAR AS MUCH as this is my special interest, FOR NOW. :)

Not REALLY WORTH arguing the point with the Monsignor, as most women are dressed for 'Success', in being sexy at least to their own will of being, YES AT CHURCH which I THINK IS BOTH GREAT AND VINDICATING FOR WOMEN OVERALL, asserting their basic reproductive freedoms in attractiveness, and what does draw lust overall for men, in research that measures this, no matter what the mouthed word says different AND yes research shows this for women to a somewhat lesser EXTENT as well.

And yes, SCIENTIFIC research shows that Lust and a balance of Love is responsible for much of human productivity and creativity as it is truly GOD's way aka Mother Nature's True, as science now shows, for folks who truly are free to EXPRESS IT HOWEVER THEY DESIRE. :)

But again, when the gray hairs go... but the change in true effect PER THIS POINT OF NATURAL GOD GIVEN Humand Freedom has already happened, overall, at least in the US. :)

Readily available and accessible Pornography that some research suggests that 50 percent of men and 33 percent of females engage in, in the workplace tells even MORE OF THE STORY OF MOTHER NATURE TRUE, AKA GOD, too. :)

God WILL HAVE GOD'S WAY when people do have and exercise freedom, and truly the evidence points to this now, for one nation growing greater TRULY UNDER GOD of Mother Nature True, INSTEAD OF RELIGION ONLY AS IS. :)

AND if Christianity does not catch up, a relatively slow decrease can be expected in participation, but there is way too much tradition to see it going away any time in the foreseeable future, per my opinion, as I live and breathe with a red state locality that still comprises almost 50 percent or more of rural living, in the US per church as well, and the majority are most definitely Christian practicing folks in some Church at least once a year, on Easter for many Catholics in my area, again at least. :)

I have not missed a Sunday in over a year as I love connecting to folks, at least in voice there, as they are pretty robotic, when it comes to saying hello, in my military oriented area, that definitely plays a part in this phenomenon of coldness per the crowd that goes there, overall.

But Southern Baptists are super friendly, even though I disagree much more with their constant message of hell and FEAR, as compared to hope and and love at my Catholic Church, with or without a smile and handshake from the participating audience, overall.


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Last edited by aghogday on 17 Nov 2014, 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lukecash12
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17 Nov 2014, 12:53 am

aghogday wrote:
I Personally think it has much to do with WHY SOME FOLKS DO Not LIKE CHRISTIANITY AS TRULY CAUSTIC FOR SOME FOLKS AS IS, but no If the early Catholic Roman Church and Constantine, did not make Jesus into a Warrior GOD things might be different, but more likely there might not be any Christianity per se of patriarchal traditions that see women the lesser spiritual as compared to men, and the ridiculous argument that Jesus is an only son of GOD, in my opinion, of course, as for the most part that is what we all are providing here.

Truly enforcing the religion as do or die as mandatory is why it's so big now, as compared to other religions, including Islam, of course as similar, which is basically enforced even stronger now, world-wide.

People enjoy human freedom when allowed overall and truly forcing one to Love GOD and repeating John 3:16 as literal truth, is NOT human FREEDOM for many people today, AND MANY MORE have a choice that gets to be other.

But I think there is the potential of a message of the Golden Rule GREATER IN TRUE EFFECT AND AFFECT, once the gray hairs, that refuse to change, go their path to dust as we all do, in the end, HERE, at least. ;)


Dude, you're still talking about gnosticism, which is a different religion. My whole point I wanted to get across was that Roman Catholicism and this Christianity you are referring to isn't exactly what people think it is.


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aghogday
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17 Nov 2014, 1:18 am

Lukecash12 wrote:

Dude, you're still talking about gnosticism, which is a different religion. My whole point I wanted to get across was that Roman Catholicism and this Christianity you are referring to isn't exactly what people think it is.


See my points above, I wasn't finished with my post and have edited it now as such, from before, I first posted it.

This is just my opinion and of course I do not expect anyone to agree with it, as I consider the Gospel of Thomas much more likely to be the truer fuller message of Jesus, as it is so similar to other folks traveling down the path of eventual destination of Awakening and Enlightenment but again just my opinion, that this is a major problem with modern Christianity Currently as is, globally, as such.


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17 Nov 2014, 2:11 am

Heres a fighting game based on religion! http://www.fukgames.com/game/5107/faith-fighter


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17 Nov 2014, 9:12 am

Religion was invented when the first scoundrel met the first fool.


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17 Nov 2014, 10:35 am

Religion was invented when somebody in the Genus Homo saw the first thing in Nature that he/she couldn't explain.



Lukecash12
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18 Nov 2014, 9:06 pm

So, no one is interested in discussing the topic of the thread?


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19 Nov 2014, 9:26 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
So, no one is interested in discussing the topic of the thread?

Pretty much ... we're all fed up with religion, except for those few who seem utterly devoted to it.

You'll find very few who will "take the middle ground" on this topic to discuss it.


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19 Nov 2014, 11:39 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
What do you think religion is?

I think religion is an attempt to explain life, the universe, everything via a narrative about supernatural and powerful entities or entity. This narrative is based on belief not evidence and is culture-based. (I am attempting an explanation which covers all religions past and present, not just the currently popular ones.)

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What do you think we actually believe?

By "we" I'm not entirely sure if you mean religious people in general, Christians in general or a specific denomination. My guess is "we"="Christians in general". In that case I think you believe that the universe was created by God who sent his son to earth in the form of Jesus and that this Jesus died to redeem humanity. Different denominations have all sorts of sub beliefs. Catholicism has made peace with evolutionary theory (as the pope recently reiterated) but some Protestant denominations have not.
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Do you really know what's in our books or did you cherry pick something?

When you say "our books" I am guessing that you mean old and new testaments. I have read the bible cover to cover (although it took me quite a long time and was interspersed with other books). Some of this reading was for academic reasons- course assignments for comparative religion courses in college. When it comes to debates, I don't quote bible verses. Religious people know far more about any given verses than I do so I am likely to accidentally weaken rather than strengthen my argument if I start cherry picking.

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Do you have a reasonable idea of what we believe or are you being incredibly caustic like these folks over segments of religions?


I do have a reasonable idea, thanks to relatives and college as well as my own independent reading. I do get caustic with young earthers because I think such literalism is silly.

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Well, I'd like to supply a picture of all of the rest of us who are religious and just as offended by these people. And since I'm a Christian I'd like to present what I think are the core realities of the religion, along with diligent support.


I await the post(s). I may have muffed even what I see as the core belief of Christianity (Jesus Son of God redeems humanity via sacrificial death). When it comes to "diligent support" I don't know if you mean support for the truth of these beliefs being consistent with reality (as opposed to other religions with different beliefs or as opposed to science). Or if you mean support for these beliefs being what Christianity actually is as opposed to what some fringe believers are portraying it as. Or something else.