Now Seinfeld says he is not autitistic

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AspieUtah
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20 Nov 2014, 11:02 am

Rocket123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:
ROTFLMAO :lmao:

Informed opinions which question the accuracy of self diagnoses are one thing, but ridiculing those who rely on such diagnoses because the alternatives are prohibitively costly, geographically distant, administratively confusing and lengthy, often require the use of tests or the involvement of family members that have minimal influence on the diagnoses, or would risk certain other rights and liberties, is beneath the dignity of anyone, especially others with Asperger's Syndrome (AS) or other autism-spectrum disorders (ASDs), in my opinion.

Stories abound on Wrong Planet (and the greater Internet) about the experiences of individuals (usually adults) who jumped willingly through every diagnostic hoop only to be told by a miseducated or spiteful diagnostician that they showed no evidence of AS or ASDs. Knowing themselves better than any diagnostician (or WP commentator) would, many have ignored their provably botched professional diagnoses and moved on with their lives based on their own self research and self diagnoses based on screening-test scores, lifelong characteristics (including those observed by others), and factor diagnoses. Ironically, they don't crave the imprimatur of some professional, just their own self awareness and knowledge.

In other words, self diagnosis works for them just fine. Who, then, should doubt that on their behalf?

Within another WP topic, "why I self-diagnose," B19 shared a non-professional survey http://abnormaldiversity.blogspot.co.nz ... nosis.html (Abnormaldiversity, 2011) recently which showed ably that the use of screening tests in self-diagnoses was remarkably accurate among those individuals who were later diagnosed professionally. While neither scholarly nor wide-ranging, the survey showed consistency in its results nonetheless. Certainly, we need more such surveys.

Meanwhile, can we accept the Abnormaldiversity survey for what it is and see that screening tests within the context of self diagnosis appear to be generally accurate? If so, do those who choose to self diagnose with such tests, and gain no material benefit from doing so except personal awareness, harm anyone? Of course, not. Are they dabbling inaccurately in things complex? Not really, according to the Abnormaldiversity survey results. Then, where is the desire to intrude and build the strawman of "professionally diagnosed v. self diagnosed" coming from? Clearly, there is hostility about this matter.

But, frankly, I don't see its validity. It all smacks of the Dr. Seuss story about The Sneetches that stated that "...until neither the Plain nor the Star-Bellies knew whether this one was that one... or that one was this one... or which one was what one... or what one was who."


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Last edited by AspieUtah on 20 Nov 2014, 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Nov 2014, 11:51 am

EzraS wrote:
I think the whole thing got blown way out of proportion. People come on here all the time saying they think they might have it and no one gets excited over that. I mean my cousin come on here saying he might have autism according to a psychologist. Who here really cared all that much? Anyone even know where that thread is? But if Jerry Seinfeld makes a tiny offhand comment that he thinks he might have it, everyone goes bananas.
I absolutely agree with the principle behind what you are saying here. What I think is different, however, is that your cousin came here anonymously, to a site that was created for people who have Autism or who are wondering if they do rather than making a poorly worded statement on a public TV interview. This is the perfect place for someone to come and wonder and ask and seek knowledge about Autism because that is what this site is for. If Jerry had come here like the rest of us and sought help and knowledge if he thought he was on the Spectrum, we would have treated him just like we treated your cousin and everyone else who comes here for that.

And your cousin is not as influential as Jerry. That is just part of being famous. If you choose to say things publicly you have to be prepared for a public response no matter how out of proportion it might be. You also have to be very careful how you word things because even though it's not fair, people do take what you say and run with it. There are not a lot of celebrities who are safe from that. We even do that to each other sometimes.

I think that if Jerry were really concerned about being on the Spectrum and really serious about it, he would have taken the time to find out and get properly assessed before making a public statement. That would have been the safer and more appropriate choice. If all he wanted to say was that he saw a play about an Autistic person and was able to relate to some of the traits than that is what he should have said. But we also all have poor use of wordage sometimes and he is just as human as the rest of us so there is no reason why that could not happen to him. But I think when you are in a position of celebrity like he is, you have to be extra careful how you say things like that in a public interview.


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20 Nov 2014, 3:58 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:
ROTFLMAO :lmao:



This was my first impression of WP early on: a place of inclusion, that does not stigmatise part of the membership, is not dominated by any specific group, where members were basically committed to respect and acceptance of all members on the spectrum rather than prejudice
by some against some for their own reasons.

Well, I was wrong. There is significant prejudice here and prejudicial attempts to discount and invalidate a large section of the membership.



tall-p
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20 Nov 2014, 5:04 pm

B19 wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:

ROTFLMAO :lmao:

This was my first impression of WP early on: a place of inclusion, that does not stigmatise part of the membership, is not dominated by any specific group, where members were basically committed to respect and acceptance of all members on the spectrum rather than prejudice by some against some for their own reasons.

Well, I was wrong. There is significant prejudice here and prejudicial attempts to discount and invalidate a large section of the membership.

Yes. These threads have made the disrespect by some members for the self-diagnosed crystal clear.


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20 Nov 2014, 7:38 pm

B19 wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:
ROTFLMAO :lmao:


Well, I was wrong. There is significant prejudice here and prejudicial attempts to discount and invalidate a large section of the membership.


Considering the ineptitude of a large portion of professionals in diagnosing autism, not having a diagnosis should not be held against members.



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20 Nov 2014, 7:51 pm

Tawaki wrote:
Fnord wrote:
WelcomeToHolland wrote:
Quote:
Me thinks he did this to get publicity for his new show or worse. I think when the publicity was not as positive as he expected he backed out.

Thats exactly what I've always thought...

Well, he is a celebrity, after all; and celebrities are always seeking publicity, because...

"Publicity can be terrible. But only if you don't have any." -- Jane Russell, actress

"Publicity, publicity, publicity is the greatest moral factor and force in our public life." -- Joseph Pulitzer, journalist

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." -- Oscar Wilde, writer

"There's no such thing as bad publicity." -- Phineas T. Barnum, the 19th century American showman and circus owner

Now that Mr. Seinfeld has received more than his fair share of publicity, I have to wonder if any of those people who criticized me for not believing him in the first place are willing to apologize.


I got some nasty PMs because I didn't BELIEVE! (TM). I have friends in the business, and none of them were buying it either.

Anyway, I adore Mr. Wilde. Jerry yanked that whole page out of his book.


He got his little spike in Google Trends, now he can go back to admiring his Porsche collection.


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20 Nov 2014, 8:00 pm

androbot01 wrote:
B19 wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:
ROTFLMAO :lmao:


Well, I was wrong. There is significant prejudice here and prejudicial attempts to discount and invalidate a large section of the membership.


Considering the ineptitude of a large portion of professionals in diagnosing autism, not having a diagnosis should not be held against members.


.......This was published last month.......

Autism Spectrum Disorders and Self-reports: Testing Validity and Reliability Using the NEO-PI-R
Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders (2014): 1-11 , October 18, 2014
By Hesselmark, Eva; Eriksson, Jonna M.; Westerlund, Joakim; Show all (4)

Abstract:
Although self-reported measures are frequently used to assess adults with autism spectrum disorders (ASD), the validity of self-reports is under-researched in ASD. The core symptoms of ASD may negatively affect the psychometric properties of self-reported measures. The aim of the present study was to test the validity and reliability of self-reported data using the NEO personality inventory-revised (NEO-PI-R). Forty-eight adults with ASD and 53 controls completed the NEO-PI-R and a psychiatric interview. Results indicate satisfactory internal consistency of the NEO-PI-R, a satisfactory factor structure, predicted correlations with clinician ratings in the ASD group, and predicted differences in personality between the ASD group and controls. In conclusion, the present results support the use of self-reported measures when assessing adults with ASD .



AspieUtah
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20 Nov 2014, 8:10 pm

B19 wrote:
.......This was published last month.......

Autism Spectrum Disorders and Self-reports: Testing Validity and Reliability Using the NEO-PI-R
Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders (2014): 1-11 , October 18, 2014
By Hesselmark, Eva; Eriksson, Jonna M.; Westerlund, Joakim; Show all (4)

Abstract:
Although self-reported measures are frequently used to assess adults with autism spectrum disorders (ASD), the validity of self-reports is under-researched in ASD. The core symptoms of ASD may negatively affect the psychometric properties of self-reported measures. The aim of the present study was to test the validity and reliability of self-reported data using the NEO personality inventory-revised (NEO-PI-R). Forty-eight adults with ASD and 53 controls completed the NEO-PI-R and a psychiatric interview. Results indicate satisfactory internal consistency of the NEO-PI-R, a satisfactory factor structure, predicted correlations with clinician ratings in the ASD group, and predicted differences in personality between the ASD group and controls. In conclusion, the present results support the use of self-reported measures when assessing adults with ASD .

Criticisms that the study is incorrect because it was printed on the wrong kind of paper ... in 3 ... 2 ... 1. [Joking]

The study links http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 014-2275-7 here online. And, in PDF, its first two pages http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... de/000.png and http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... de/001.png are also available for free download.


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Last edited by AspieUtah on 20 Nov 2014, 8:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

B19
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20 Nov 2014, 8:14 pm

Thanks for making me smile. And the font is the wrong size...



Rocket123
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20 Nov 2014, 11:29 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:
ROTFLMAO :lmao:

Informed opinions which question the accuracy of self diagnoses are one thing, but ridiculing those who rely on such diagnoses because the alternatives are prohibitively costly, geographically distant, administratively confusing and lengthy, often require the use of tests or the involvement of family members that have minimal influence on the diagnoses, or would risk certain other rights and liberties, is beneath the dignity of anyone, especially others with Asperger's Syndrome (AS) or other autism-spectrum disorders (ASDs), in my opinion.


There is another active thread which is discussing the topic of self diagnosis. In that thread, I wrote the following:
Quote:
...From my perspective, the key questions with the validity of any diagnosis (professional-diagnosis or otherwise) are:
#1 - What process was used to come to a particular conclusion?
#2 ? What was the expertise of the person involved in executing that chosen process?

I do believe it?s possible to self-diagnose (given a rigorous process executed by someone who has researched the subject for many, many, many, many hours)...


There are people in that thread who disagree with my position. But whatever.

In any event, I am not ridiculing the practice of self-diagnosis. I am ridiculing people (like Seinfeld) who say stupid sh*t like, "I was just watching this play...and thought...".



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21 Nov 2014, 12:05 am

Fnord wrote:
tall-p wrote:
He said that he watched a play about autism, and identified.

So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:

Let's call it the "Seinfeld Syndrome", eh? :wink:


It's not an invalid self-diagnosis because he also self-un-diagnosed.
Only a licensed professional is qualified to un-self-diagnose and re-evaluate as Seinfeld Syndrome.
Until he gets a qualified un-diagnoses he will have to retain his unqualified self-diagnoses.

I think, on a very drawn out scale, I have a touch of comedian. I can identify with Mr. Seinfeld in that respect.



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21 Nov 2014, 1:05 am

The study about self-report in ASD vs. NT is not about self-diagnosis.
The results don't support self-diagnosis in any way.
The results are irrelevant on the question of self-diagnosis.
Instead, the researchers carefully rediagnosed adults with ASD who had previously been diagnosed by other clinicians.
Then, they gave them self-report questionnaires and assessed the validity of these questionnaires in ASD and NT groups to see if autistic adults could report their own traits inspite of language or mentalizing impairments caused by autism.
The questionnaire used in the study was a lengthy personality inventory.
Other types of questionnaires might be ones about alexithymia, anxiety, depression, etc.
The conclusions were that the questionnaires were valid for the ASD group.
There is no conclusion about the validity or accuracy of self-diagnosis, because that was not the topic of the study.
I support the use of self-report questionnaires in diagnosing any mental disorder, but I don't think that self-report process is enough for diagnosing a mental disorder.
In addition, clinical observation is necessary, and childhood history as observed and reported by others is recommended but in some circumstance may not be available.


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AspieUtah
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21 Nov 2014, 10:27 am

Rocket123 wrote:
There is another active thread which is discussing the topic of self diagnosis. In that thread, I wrote the following:
Quote:
...From my perspective, the key questions with the validity of any diagnosis (professional-diagnosis or otherwise) are:
#1 - What process was used to come to a particular conclusion?
#2 ? What was the expertise of the person involved in executing that chosen process?

I do believe it?s possible to self-diagnose (given a rigorous process executed by someone who has researched the subject for many, many, many, many hours)...

There are people in that thread who disagree with my position. But whatever.

In any event, I am not ridiculing the practice of self-diagnosis. I am ridiculing people (like Seinfeld) who say stupid sh*t like, "I was just watching this play...and thought...".

Fair enough. I agree that self diagnosis should involve more than just answering an online quiz, just reading a book, or, as in Seinfeld's case, just sitting through a play (which I doubt actually ever occurred). No, a good, satisfying self diagnosis would include at least one positive screening test from a legitimate source, a detailed list of lifelong characteristics, at least one factor diagnosis, and a generalized book or three with some scholarly research papers thrown in to bolster the claims of the tests, characteristics and factor diagnoses. It isn't that difficult to accomplish. Mine took about two to three months, and I considered it time well spent.


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21 Nov 2014, 10:28 am

I find Marybird's post very witty.

I wish she were one of Leakey's Girls!



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21 Nov 2014, 10:58 am

Marybird wrote:
Fnord wrote:
tall-p wrote:
He said that he watched a play about autism, and identified.

So ... it was just another invalid self-diagnosis by an untrained amateur ... :roll:

Let's call it the "Seinfeld Syndrome", eh? :wink:


It's not an invalid self-diagnosis because he also self-un-diagnosed.
Only a licensed professional is qualified to un-self-diagnose and re-evaluate as Seinfeld Syndrome.
Until he gets a qualified un-diagnoses he will have to retain his unqualified self-diagnoses.

I think, on a very drawn out scale, I have a touch of comedian. I can identify with Mr. Seinfeld in that respect.
That's funny! :D


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